Have you heard the Gospel?

[Consecrated Life]

When the Savior was saying these words, was He and His disciples under the Old Covenant or under the New Covenant?

If God in the flesh came to give the OT he would have said the woman caught in adultery should be stoned , as you have claimed the OT being in effect with the Lord .

 

[Consecrated Life]

Who was Jesus speaking to ?

His apostles.
Who carried the same message as in Jesus's Prayer, in complete concord of the fallen nature still being with us and being the focus of Satan's attack on the believer.
Who do you say Peter repeated the same warning to ?

1Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

 

[Hopeful 2]

His apostles.

Right !
Not to NT men who have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Those people were still doing things they needed forgiveness for.
NT men who have been born of God need no such forgiveness.

Who carried the same message as in Jesus's Prayer, in complete concord of the fallen nature still being with us and being the focus of Satan's attack on the believer.

See where you went wrong ?
Those reborn of God don't have Adam's anything, anymore .

1Pe 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

A good exhortation to adhere to.
The devil doesn't quit trying to corrupt the incorruptible.

 

[Consecrated Life]

1Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

A good exhortation to adhere to.
The devil doesn't quit trying to corrupt the incorruptible.

Lack of possibility is not what the basic english "..,, may devour" means.
The meaning is that there is a very real possibility.
Care to try again ?

​

may​

auxiliary verb
ˈ—used to indicate possibility or probability
you may be right
things you may need
—sometimes used interchangeably with can
: have permission to
: be free to—used nearly interchangeably with can
: have the ability to

 

[live2blieve]

If God in the flesh came to give the OT he would have said the woman caught in adultery should be stoned , as you have claimed the OT being in effect with the Lord .

Sorry, I don't understand your answer. The question is simple: When the Savior was saying these words, was He and His disciples under the Old Covenant or under the New Covenant? Can you please give a simple answer?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Sorry, I don't understand your answer. The question is simple: When the Savior was saying these words, was He and His disciples under the Old Covenant or under the New Covenant? Can you please give a simple answer?

Simple Bible knowledge tells us that Jesus and His Apostles, being repeatedly accused of not following what was lawful under the OT, had moved on.

Luke 6:7
And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.

Mark 2:24
And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

 

[follower]

Not. I only looked for new posts, and this was newest so I perused, then read it.
They did not "move on" ; they did not disobey the commandment(s).
The scribes and Pharisees were the ones who were /are/ wrong.

Simple Bible knowledge tells us that Jesus and His Apostles, being repeatedly accused of not following what was lawful under the OT, had moved on.

Luke 6:7
And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.

Mark 2:24
And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Not. I only looked for new posts, and this was newest so I perused, then read it.
They did not "move on" ; they did not disobey the commandment(s).
The scribes and Pharisees were the ones who were /are/ wrong.

The entire OT law rested on the Spiritual Presence of the Temple.
Jesus declared their Temple a desolate tomb.

Mat 23:38
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Void of God's Spirit, & destined for destruction
If remission of sin could no longer be found there under the Old Covenant , then by what covenant did the people receive remission for their sins ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

1Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Lack of possibility is not what the basic English "..,, may devour" means.
The meaning is that there is a very real possibility.
Care to try again ?

may auxiliary verb​

ˈ—used to indicate possibility or probability
you may be right
things you may need
—sometimes used interchangeably with can
: have permission to
: be free to—used nearly interchangeably with can
: have the ability to

Adhere to the exhortations, and the devil won't be doing any eating.

 

[live2blieve]

Simple Bible knowledge tells us that Jesus and His Apostles, being repeatedly accused of not following what was lawful under the OT, had moved on.

Luke 6:7
And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.

Mark 2:24
And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

Still no answer to my question. Was the Savior and His disciples under the Old Covenant or under the New Covenant? If you don't know, please say so.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Still no answer to my question. Was the Savior and His disciples under the Old Covenant or under the New Covenant? If you don't know, please say so.

You are telling on yourself , If you knew your scripture you would not have to ask .
Let me help you.
This Jesus who is God incarnate made clear , both by declaring the Temple sacrificial system null and void, both prophetically in Spirit prior to becoming flesh:
Ezekiel 43:7
And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.

And again in real time after becoming flesh as walked the earth among them who defiled His Holy place:

Matthew 23:38
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

That the Old Covenant sacrificial temple system for covering sin Had been defiled by them and been made dead and desolate to God.

Thus Jesus brought the New Covenant remission for sins which they nailed Him to cross:
Mar 2:10
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)

Luke 5:21
And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

 

[live2blieve]

You are telling on yourself , If you knew your scripture you would not have to ask .
Let me help you.
This Jesus who is God incarnate made clear , both by declaring the Temple sacrificial system null and void, both prophetically in Spirit prior to becoming flesh:
Ezekiel 43:7
And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.

And again in real time after becoming flesh as walked the earth among them who defiled His Holy place:

Matthew 23:38
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

That the Old Covenant sacrificial temple system for covering sin Had been defiled by them and been made dead and desolate to God.

Thus Jesus brought the New Covenant remission for sins which they nailed Him to cross:
Mar 2:10
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)

Luke 5:21
And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

Thank you for your response. I am not stubborn, but I still sincerely believe that you did not answer the question in a simple way. Let me ask differently. Do I understand you correctly that when the Savior was saying the words you quoted in Matthew, Mark and Lule, he was living in the time of the New Covenant? Simple "yes" or "no" will do.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Thank you for your response. I am not stubborn, but I still sincerely believe that you did not answer the question in a simple way. Let me ask differently. Do I understand you correctly that when the Savior was saying the words you quoted in Matthew, Mark and Lule, he was living in the time of the New Covenant? Simple "yes" or "no" will do.

Yes, as there could be no forgiveness of sins without the NC.

Luke 19:9
And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house...

Luke 11:2
¶
"And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name............
........ forgive us our sins....

 

[live2blieve]

Yes, as there could be no forgiveness of sins without the NC.

Luke 19:9
And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house...

Luke 11:2
¶
"And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name............
........ forgive us our sins....

It is not so. There was forgiveness of sins under the Old Covenant:

For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the Lord. (Leviticus 16:30).

The Savior was born, lived and died during the time of the Old Covenant:

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law (Galatians 4:4).

This is important to know in order to understand the purpose of the Messiah. His purpose was to fulfill the Law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17), not to set up a Christian way of life as some people think.

 

[Consecrated Life]

It is not so. There was forgiveness of sins under the Old Covenant:

For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the Lord. (Leviticus 16:30).

Your confused chronology is the source of your confusion.
Leviticus was written prior to the Temple being defiled by the whoredom of the leadership which rendered the Temple desolate & void of any covering of sin not matter if an ocean of animal blood was shed.
Read Jesus speaking thru Ezekiel 43:7.
The read Jesus repeat the same declaration of the Temple system being of no effect .
You can't get around the Words of Jesus speaking specifically to this .

Ezekiel 43:7
And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
Matthew 23:38
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Additionally you have God/Jesus forgiving sins while he walked the earth.
Luke 5:21
And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
It sounds as if you are attempting to posit that both the Temple and at the feet of Jesus , either or, were both equally good locations to get covering for sin while Jesus was present under the OC.
How do you reason that when God had declared the Temple desolated

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

The Messiah told those who believed in him that they would not sin: “and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free [from sin]” (John 8:32). However, many Christians believe that they continue to sin. The obvious conclusion is that they have not heard the truth.

The apostle Paul wrote this about the gospel:

“Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

It is important to note that when Paul wrote this letter, the books of the New Testament had not yet been written, i.e., the Scriptures were the books of the Old Testament, not the Gospels of Matthew, Luke, Mark, and John. Christ himself preached this true gospel by referring to the books of the Old Testament (Luke 24:44-46), and Paul did the same from morning to night (Acts 28:23). The New Testament accounts are usually preached in a church, but this is not the gospel that Christ and the apostles preached, which, according to them, saves and delivers from sin.

Have you heard the witnesses in the Old Testament of how Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day? Please share if you know.

You are right that our Father sees us now as sinless because of Jesus' sacrifice and because he declares us "not-guilty" in his sight as our Judge. However, that declaration of his verdict has to be developed in our practice. Look at 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 and tell me that you are always joyful, prayerful, and thankful. Why, then, did Paul need to command us, as he does in many other letters?

 

[live2blieve]

Your confused chronology is the source of your confusion.
Leviticus was written prior to the Temple being defiled by the whoredom of the leadership which rendered the Temple desolate & void of any covering of sin not matter if an ocean of animal blood was shed.
Read Jesus speaking thru Ezekiel 43:7.
The read Jesus repeat the same declaration of the Temple system being of no effect .
You can't get around the Words of Jesus speaking specifically to this .

Ezekiel 43:7
And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
Matthew 23:38
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Additionally you have God/Jesus forgiving sins while he walked the earth.
Luke 5:21
And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
It sounds as if you are attempting to posit that both the Temple and at the feet of Jesus , either or, were both equally good locations to get covering for sin while Jesus was present under the OC.
How do you reason that when God had declared the Temple desolated

I simply addressed your statement "Yes, as there could be no forgiveness of sins without the NC." This statement the way it is written is not accurate, because under the OC there was forgiveness of sin. What was happening at the time of the Messiah is a different matter.

 

[live2blieve]

You are right that our Father sees us now as sinless because of Jesus' sacrifice and because he declares us "not-guilty" in his sight as our Judge. However, that declaration of his verdict has to be developed in our practice. Look at 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 and tell me that you are always joyful, prayerful, and thankful. Why, then, did Paul need to command us, as he does in many other letters?

Thank you for the good question. It was addressed earlier: https://christianforums.net/threads/have-you-heard-the-gospel.110963/page-2#post-1926271

 

[Consecrated Life]

I simply addressed your statement "Yes, as there could be no forgiveness of sins without the NC." This statement the way it is written is not accurate, because under the OC there was forgiveness of sin. What was happening at the time of the Messiah is a different matter.

It is exactly the "matter"
You seem to have much trouble keeping track of Chronological order of things
The Temple being defiled and of no spiritual use , Jesus who just happens to be present & the author of the NC is the obvious option .
I hope you do recall the Lord's power point instruction to His disciples to include asking God for forgiveness of sins in prayer was what started this conversation?

 

[live2blieve]

It is exactly the "matter"
You seem to have much trouble keeping track of Chronological order of things
The Temple being defiled and of no spiritual use , Jesus who just happens to be present & the author of the NC is the obvious option .
I hope you do recall the Lord's power point instruction to His disciples to include asking God for forgiveness of sins in prayer was what started this conversation?

Yes, I remember the instruction of Yahshua, but don't understand what you want to say by that. I understand that you believe that the Savior, from his birth to death, lived in Israel at the time of the New Covenant, not Old Covenant. Is this correct?