Have you heard the Gospel?

[Consecrated Life]

I can, however, see their obedient behavior.

Your deliberate failure to ever mention you cannot see the evil & sin that God sees committed in a person's heart, while insisting that your limited viewing of a person's outward presented behavior is proof they do no sin is a slippery tactic
Especially when the omission is devised for the sole purpose of puffing up one's self before others .

Psalm 44:21
Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Your deliberate failure to ever mention you cannot see the evil & sin that God sees committed in a person's heart, while insisting that your limited viewing of a person's outward presented behavior is proof they do no sin is a slippery tactic
Especially when the omission is devised for the sole purpose of puffing up one's self before others .

Psalm 44:21
Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

I can't tell what a man is thinking, but I can tell when he resists temptation to commit a sin.
And I have seen that a lot.
Are you going to condemn my brothers and sisters because you can't read their minds ?

 

[Consecrated Life]

I can't tell what a man is thinking, but I can tell when he resists temptation to commit a sin.
And I have seen that a lot.
Are you going to condemn my brothers and sisters because you can't read their minds ?

If you cannot read minds , then you have no way to know if someone is yielding to temptation in their heart while you are watching them ?

Jer 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

 

[Hopeful 2]

If you cannot read minds , then you have no way to know if someone is yielding to temptation in their heart while you are watching them ?

Jer 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

I am starting to get a picture of your mind, without ever meeting you.
Having met reborn men and women, I can tell they are very different than the folks of this world.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I am starting to get a picture of your mind, without ever meeting you.
Having met reborn men and women, I can tell they are very different than the folks of this world.

You don't know what God alone knows that which goes on in the heart of person.
Only God knows the secret sin of the heart .
God calling it " Secret sin" means it is between God and the individual alone .

Psalm 44:21
Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You don't know what God alone knows that which goes on in the heart of person.
Only God knows the secret sin of the heart .
God calling it " Secret sin" means it is between God and the individual alone .

Psalm 44:21
Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

If you don't want to believe that God has the power to keep men from sin, we can end this here and now.

 

[Consecrated Life]

If you don't want to believe that God has the power to keep men from sin, we can end this here and now.

God has declared that only He knows what He alone knows with regard to the secret sin in the heart of each person.
This is why there is never any scripture provided to support a dishonest claim of knowing what only God knows .

Jerimiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

 

[Hopeful 2]

God has declared that only He knows what He alone knows with regard to the secret sin in the heart of each person.
This is why there is never any scripture provided to support a dishonest claim of knowing what only God knows .

Jerimiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Is your heart still deceitful and wicked ?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Is your heart still deceitful and wicked ?

The heart is ground zero for the fallen flesh that all of us still inhabit , and do battle with each day..
My heart is no different and though I fight the battle every day and I do win most of them , I do not win every one of them.
If it were not possible to lose one of these battles there would be no reason for Jesus to tell us we need to pray daily that we not be led into temptation & that we be delivered from evil, and that it does happen that sometimes our sin of a lost battle be forgiven .

Luke 11:2
¶
"And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name............

.........And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil."




Psalm 73:26
My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The heart is ground zero for the fallen flesh that all of us still inhabit , and do battle with each day..
My heart is no different and though I fight the battle every day and I do win most of them , I do not win every one of them.
If it were not possible to lose one of these battles there would be no reason for Jesus to tell us we need to pray daily that we not be led into temptation & that we be delivered from evil, and that it does happen that sometimes our sin of a lost battle be forgiven .

Luke 11:2
¶
"And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name............

.........And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil."
Psalm 73:26
My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.

Thanks for admitting your heart is still deceitful and wicked.
As for the OP, have you heard the gospel ?
It is the cure for deceitful and wicked hearts.
With a true turn from sin, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
You will also be reborn of God's seed.
His seed cannot bring forth deceitful or wicked fruit.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Thanks for admitting your heart is still deceitful and wicked.
As for the OP, have you heard the gospel ?
It is the cure for deceitful and wicked hearts.
With a true turn from sin, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
You will also be reborn of God's seed.
His seed cannot bring forth deceitful or wicked fruit.

So why would Jesus instruct the reborn that we need to pray daily that we not be led into temptation & that we be delivered from evil, and that our sin of a lost battle be forgiven .

Luke 11:2
"And he said unto them, When ye pray, say,........
.........And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil."

 

[live2blive]

So why would Jesus instruct the reborn that we need to pray daily that we not be led into temptation & that we be delivered from evil, and that our sin of a lost battle be forgiven .

Luke 11:2
"And he said unto them, When ye pray, say,........
.........And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil."

This is a good and important question. The answer is in the understanding of the difference between Old Covenant and New Covenant, which is a part of the True Gospel.

Yahshua (true name of the Savior) did not instruct THE REBORN how to pray. He instructed his disciples under the Old Covenant when nobody was reborn, because the Holy Spirit was not given yet (John 7:39).

To illustrate the difference between the Covenants, let’s take the forgiveness as an example. Yahshua told his disciples when he taught them how to pray:

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (Matthew 6:14,15).

Forgiveness was conditional. This creates an obvious problem, because under the Old Covenant (and now many people are spiritually still under the Old Covenant) people’s heart was not right with God (Deuteronomy 5:29, Jeremiah 17:9) and they didn’t have this forgiveness in them.

Please notice the difference under the New Covenant. Yahweh said through the prophets that He would give the true believers a new heart and cause them to do what is right (including forgiving others):

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (Ezekiel 36:25-27)

He will forgive their sins by grace, unconditionally, BEFORE they will forgive others:

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more (Jeremiah 31:33,34).

Apostle Paul, being under the New Covenant, confirms that AFTER God forgives people, they will be able to forgive others (not other way around as in Matthew 6):

And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. (Ephesians 4:32).

This is why it is so important to first hear the True Gospel, because true faith comes by hearing (Romans 10:17). Apparently people have not heard this Gospel (see the first message) based on the lack of answers in this forum.

 

[Consecrated Life]

This is a good and important question. The answer is in the understanding of the difference between Old Covenant and New Covenant, which is a part of the True Gospel.

Yahshua (true name of the Savior) did not instruct THE REBORN how to pray. He instructed his disciples under the Old Covenant when nobody was reborn, because the Holy Spirit was not given yet (John 7:39).

The disciples were well schooled in the Old Covenant although it is obvious you are not.
They are not asking Jesus for remedial lesson in the law .
I am stunned you think that is what is going here .

Luke 11:2
"And he said unto them, When ye pray, say,........
.........And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil."

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

The Messiah told those who believed in him that they would not sin: “and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free [from sin]” (John 8:32). However, many Christians believe that they continue to sin. The obvious conclusion is that they have not heard the truth.

The apostle Paul wrote this about the gospel:

“Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

It is important to note that when Paul wrote this letter, the books of the New Testament had not yet been written, i.e., the Scriptures were the books of the Old Testament, not the Gospels of Matthew, Luke, Mark, and John. Christ himself preached this true gospel by referring to the books of the Old Testament (Luke 24:44-46), and Paul did the same from morning to night (Acts 28:23). The New Testament accounts are usually preached in a church, but this is not the gospel that Christ and the apostles preached, which, according to them, saves and delivers from sin.

Have you heard the witnesses in the Old Testament of how Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day? Please share if you know.

Of course! Read all of Isaiah 53, which details Jesus' suffering and death as his substitution for us (verses 1-9) and his resurrection (verses 10-12) six hundred years before it happened.

Do you believe that you are sinless? Go to 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 and say that you're perfectly joyful, prayerful, and thankful all the time. Paul wouldn't have made such commands if they and we were all sinless:

1Th 5:16 Rejoice always,
1Th 5:17 pray without ceasing,
1Th 5:18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

We are sinless in God's sight in principle but far from sinless in practice, a fact that the resurrection power of Jesus helps us make progress in, but it's a lifelong process.

 

[Hopeful 2]

So why would Jesus instruct the reborn that we need to pray daily that we not be led into temptation & that we be delivered from evil, and that our sin of a lost battle be forgiven .

Luke 11:2
"And he said unto them, When ye pray, say,........
.........And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil."

Who, exactly, were those words spoken to ?
OT men who still walked in and after the flesh...as they had no other choice yet.
Or NT men who were unfettered by the "flesh" ?
OT men.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Who, exactly, were those words spoken to ?
OT men who still walked in and after the flesh...as they had no other choice yet.
Or NT men who were unfettered by the "flesh" ?
OT men.

Your knowledge of the Jew's perspective on sin in Jesus's day is severely lacking.
No conversation from a strictly Jewish perspective concerning sins that have separated the Jew from God as you claim is what Jesus is giving instruction about in the Lords Prayer could not include the edifice of Jewish worship.
For the Jew the sacred place where God Himself dwells on earth. the Temple.
For the Jew not just a place of worship, but the sacred sanctuary of God on earth.
That you esteem this to be a strictly Jewish prayer concerning sin of the Jew & yet not one word from Jesus to these Jews of the Temple which for Jews under the Old Covenant represented the True provision that God had given just to them as their means of atonement from sin and Spiritual cleansing shows a complete lack of understanding of the Jewish Temple System .
You are wrong on both counts.
That Jesus's prayer is not speaking to His disciples about things future and eternal.
And that Jesus's prayer is speaking to them about things past



Our Father, which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy Name. Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, As it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, As we forgive them that trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, The power, and the glory, For ever and ever. Amen.