Smaller and Free,
I am a partial Preterist who leans towards Full Preterism (I leave room that Jesus may indeed come physically and that there will be a new heaven and earth), and I am also a Universalist. Being a Universalist, the Lake of Fire “prepared for the Devil and his messegers...” is a purification process, thus a future fulfillment of Col.1:20. Both these positions are not allowed on this forum. I will present this commentary in the hopes that the moderators will show grace.
Yeah, I kinda figured the position you held was 'satanic salvation.' I just can't get there and I doubt many could. I mean really, not one single text that
specifies SALVATION for them relegates that position to a personal fantasy imho. The position that people are devils and there are no other entities as devils/satan (as an alternative) is not possible either. IF either of these positions were available OTHER THAN in the personal fantasy realm you'd have a basis of reasoning.
Judgment in the Olivet Discourse
“Now, this is very interesting. On hearing this ominous prophecy, the disciples ask an important question: “…When will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” As I stated above, the following verses until the end of chapter 25 is entirely unbroken narrative. Can there be any doubt that this entire passage is related to the same time of the “end” and the same “coming”? Or did Jesus just decide to change the subject to another “coming” mid-stream to make things interesting?
I don't discount the timing of that event and the possibility of various, perhaps even multiple timing workings and methodologies. Example? Jesus has a statement about the evil spirit departing a man and that being wandering a 'dry place' seeking rest could in some ways be viewed as connected to the Matt. 25 scripture set. I do think that the gathering process will or is going on in various ways as well. But the 'separation' event, one working from another, makes it unique and an 'end' of 'goat works.'
Watch this: 24:30-31 and 33-34 read, “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other…Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.”
At the end of chapter 25, Jesus launches into the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats. Let’s look at it here:
When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.” Matthew 25:31-34 NIV
Sorry, the NIV has butchered that set. That translation was written by blindmen imho.
Compare:
32 And
before him shall be gathered all nations: and
he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Do you see the term
'people' anywhere? No. It was a blatant and quite stupid alteration. That's what these re-writes have done. They have altered the text to suit their own blind views, many of which cannot be supported from the texts they were translated from.
I'd bank that before long a whole generation of personal fantasy Bible texts will be available.
Is this the same event? I believe it’s clear that it is. Notice the parallels:
1. “The Son of Man” comes “with great glory” (24:30), “in his glory” (25:31)
Little clues like 'before Him' (referring to the gathering of the nations) means that the gathering itself could be taking place over an extended period of time.
All of them would indicate a fairly dynamic event.
3. The nations are called into account (24:30) and (25:32)
4. Separation is made between the righteous and unrighteous (24:31, 25:32)
Please tell me you can see that these are the same event! If so, and if the first was to occur before that generation passed away, the second one must have as well.
Sorry. We are going to divert greatly if you insist on the preterist views, which are imho and again nearly blind understandings. NO, Jesus has NOT COME in the FULL way described in Matt. 25.
The goat works and the sheep works continue to be MIXED in the work of ALL people. Believers and unbelievers do BOTH works presently.
And to see that generation as only people alive at X time is assuredly NOT the only possible view of the identity of that generation.
This means that the judgment of the nations is not a future apocalyptic event at some postulated close of human history. Rather this was what happened when the dead were raised, some to a resurrection of life and the others to a resurrection of judgment (John 5:29; cf. Daniel 12:2). This is the judgment of the living and dead that Paul said was “about to” occur in 2 Timothy 4:1.
This judgment was to coincide with the coming of the Son of Man on the clouds (cf. Matt 24:30) depicted in 1 Thessalonians 4, which also describes the Resurrection of the Dead. Hades/Sheol (the holding grounds of the dead awaiting judgment) is no more:
I'm going to cut to the chase of this matter with one HUGE HOLE in your theories. We know for a fact that the DEVIL and his MESSENGERS are a part of that event. Where is your accounting for THEIR WORKINGS, THEIR NATIONS???
Why the insistence that the event concerns ONLY PEOPLE and PEOPLE nations?
UNLESS you make PEOPLE devils your view has no accounting for THE NATIONS OF DEVILS or of THEIR generation.
I parted company with 'visiting' with many so called 'universalists' because they have fallen HEADLONG into the position of 'there is no Satan but MANKIND.' And some will go so far as to say because there are no separate entity classes that are NOT mankind but are SATAN and DEVILS as 'their own kind' they even make Jesus talking to HIMSELF as SATAN in the desert temptation.
To me that understanding is not only false, it is a big fat blind LIE. Jesus was NOT talking to 'whatever' form of His Own Nature as SATAN. That never happened. And pity the fool who tries to reason with them. Those oh so loving universalists are just as viscious as anyone else when you call that understanding BLINDLY NAKED. And they wonder why they can not be taken seriously?
Seriously.
The understanding that PEOPLE are DEVILS is patently false. And Jesus was NOT SATAN.
When you start dissecting texts with that as your basis you ARE going to get down an unsupportable RAT hole, doctrinally speaking, on so many fronts I can't begin to count them. So maybe to support where you are you could clarify this matter and then, if the above is what you hold, you are barking up the wrong tree.
You need to convince that DEVILS change into GODS CHILDREN or that God had DEMONIC CHILDREN. I have not seen THE SALVATION OF DEVILS in any text, period. And I have NOT seen them change into children of God other than as POSERS who have OVER LAID themselves onto MINISTERS of RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Devils DO operate WITH mankind. Of this there is no doubt. BUT this does NOT make these 'entities' the SAME nor is there really any cause to make that effort of making them the same. I seriously question that effort as an effort/work of DEVILS in 'christian people' who are seriously ignorant when they take that track.
those who die from now on do not wait for judgment because Sheol was thrown into the Lake of Fire after all its denizens left it to stand before the Great White Throne for judgment (Rev. 20:11-15). Notice that only a preterist who believes that Sheol has been destroyed can claim that a soul receives its reward or judgment immediately upon death. This is why the voice from heaven told John in the midst of a chapter describing the reign of the living and resurrected saints, “Write: Blessed are the dead that die in the Lord from now on. ‘Yes,’ says the Spirit, ‘they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.’” (Rev. 14:13)
Uh, no, the Lake of Fire event has not yet transpired. And goat works and sheep works continue to be done IN ALL people.
enjoy!
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