Hello!

[eddif]

Very strange analogy as the patient is passive and we are anything but passive. If a christian sits in a chair reading a magazine patiently for God to painlessly and effortlessly purify him, he’ll wait until death with no change whatsoever.

First off here:
I almost know nothing of the dialysis process. There is a port? Installed?

The agony of deciding to go on dialysis is anything but passive. The decision is to trust yourself to an invasive action that requires trips and continual treatment.
Deciding to become a Christian is not passive.
Acts 16:29 kjv
29. Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30. And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31. And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

His family will know
His work associates will know
He will make friends with ( those ) people
Passive ?

Saul of Tarsus / Paul - any thing but passive. Oh but brother you chose exceptions to the rule. What rule? Go to eastern countries and decide to be a Christian.
Go to your drinking buddies and tell them you have decided to follow Jesus.

Let Jesus be Lord and I think a battle begins. Passive?
Oh wretched man that I am…..


For success there are a host of other issues that go along with the process. Dialysis:
Diet
Mental commitment
Support group
Study
Supplements beyond MD suggestions
Prayer to

Personally it would not be one of my preferred choices.

“sitting in a chair reading magazines” ?

eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

First off here:
I almost know nothing of the dialysis process. There is a port? Installed?

The agony of deciding to go on dialysis is anything but passive.

It isn’t agony,

The decision is to trust yourself to an invasive action that requires trips and continual treatment.

It’s called health care and lots and lots of people actually experience gratefulness it’s there for them.

Deciding to become a Christian is not passive.
Acts 16:29 kjv
29. Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30. And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31. And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

His family will know
His work associates will know
He will make friends with ( those ) people
Passive ?

If someone likens it to dialysis, it’s passive.

Saul of Tarsus / Paul - any thing but passive. Oh but brother you chose exceptions to the rule. What rule? Go to eastern countries and decide to be a Christian.
Go to your drinking buddies and tell them you have decided to follow Jesus.

Let Jesus be Lord and I think a battle begins. Passive?

Shouldn’t be likened to dialysis.

Oh wretched man that I am…..


For success there are a host of other issues that go along with the process. Dialysis:
Diet
Mental commitment
Support group
Study
Supplements beyond MD suggestions
Prayer to

Personally it would not be one of my preferred choices.

“sitting in a chair reading magazines” ?

eddif

Most medical procedures require the patient to be passive. Not all, but most. Dialysis is one of them.

 

[eddif]

It isn’t agony,

It’s called health care and lots and lots of people actually experience gratefulness it’s there for them.

If someone likens it to dialysis, it’s passive.

Shouldn’t be likened to dialysis.

Most medical procedures require the patient to be passive. Not all, but most. Dialysis is one of them.

Luke 8:43 kjv
43. And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

Mark 5:25 kjv
25. And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,
26. And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,
27. When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.
28. For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.
29. And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in herbody that she was healed of that plague.

12 years of treatment vs healed.
Oh but brother show me a healing today. LOL
eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Luke 8:43 kjv
43. And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

Mark 5:25 kjv
25. And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,
26. And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,
27. When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.
28. For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.
29. And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in herbody that she was healed of that plague.

12 years of treatment vs healed.
Oh but brother show me a healing today. LOL
eddif

That woman would have grateful to have lived today where her problem would have solved by modern health care. Bleeding we solve pretty easily. Pain is more difficult.

 

[eddif]

That woman would have grateful to have lived today where her problem would have solved by modern health care. Bleeding we solve pretty easily. Pain is more difficult.

Psalms 20:7 kjv
7. Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.

I tend to remember “well I whited that one out”. Meaning the x-ray machine was set too high for my body weight. Or. When questening a medication strengrh “Oh that medication strength is for an aids patient”. Not even a sorry in either case. I just think of the lady with the issue of blood. Jesus can heal medical incompetences. Or
You do not have malaria. Took quinine and stopped years of sub-clinical suffering. Or the 2nd case of another clinical case of a second strain of malaria ( I was supposed to not have). By grace and not by my intelligence I lived.


Really I apologize. I just have found several medical mess ups personally. I have had to seek God. I really identify with the lady.

eddif

 

[T. E. Smith]

Where do you get that idea? God says, “come let us reason together.” I just read Job in preparation for a new thread and God repeatedly says to Job,”stand up and talk to me like a man.” Abraham questioned God and got answers. Moses talked to God like a friend. Jeremiah questioned God and got answers. Lastly and least, I’ve questioned God and got answers. You are raised by Calvinists, I gather. and so I understand. They don’t allow questions, of God or anyone, it seems. God, the real one, isn’t like that.

The point of Job is that God may not be questioned.

"Shall a faultfinder contend with the Almighty? He who argues with God, let him answer it... Will you even put me in the wrong? Will you condemn me that you may be in the right?" (Job 40:2, 8). God then proceeds to flex his supernatural muscles to demonstrate that Job can't question him. It is only when Job exclaims, "Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know... therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes" (Job 42:3, 6) that God stops, and rewards him.

The point of Habakkuk is that questioning God is futile and foolish due to God's majesty.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The point of Job is that God may not be questioned.

Wrong. Absolutely wrong!! God himself told Job to be a man and talk to him. Abraham questioned God and it turned out quite well.

"Shall a faultfinder contend with the Almighty? He who argues with God, let him answer it... Will you even put me in the wrong? Will you condemn me that you may be in the right?" (Job 40:2, 8).

This is not about questioning. This about BLAMING. Everyone of us knows the difference between a question and blame.

God then proceeds to flex his supernatural muscles to demonstrate that Job can't question him. It is only when Job exclaims, "Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know... therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes" (Job 42:3, 6) that God stops, and rewards him.

Wrong!! Falsely Accusing God of evil is no more ok with God than it is with us.

The point of Habakkuk is that questioning God is futile and foolish due to God's majesty.

Wrong!! Wrong!! Wrong!!

Ever hear the exchange between Abe and God before the rain of terror on S and G? Abe questioned God and it went very well.

The god you reject is not the God who is there.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Ever hear the exchange between Abe and God before the rain of terror on S and G? Abe questioned God and it went very well.

That was making requests, not doubting God's justice. If Abe doubted God's justice he would not have appealed to it.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That was making requests, not doubting God's justice. If Abe doubted God's justice he would not have appealed to it.

Wrong again. He said “shall not the judge of all the earth so rightly?”

But there is a difference between doubting Gods character and imploring Him. Same as we don’t like our justice or character to be questioned.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Wrong again. He said “shall not the judge of all the earth so rightly?”

Of course, Abraham knew that the judge of all the earth would judge rightly. Never did he doubt that. In his words, he expressed faith without questioning.

Same as we don’t like our justice or character to be questioned.

But sometimes it needs to be.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That was making requests, not doubting God's justice. If Abe doubted God's justice he would not have appealed to it.

Why would he doubt Gods justice? He knew Him pretty well. No one who knows God well doubts his justice. It’s because we KNOW He IS just.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Of course, Abraham knew that the judge of all the earth would judge rightly. Never did he doubt that. In his words, he expressed faith without questioning.

Why would he question? He already knew.

But sometimes it needs to be.

I’ll remember that when Edward questions your character again. Let’s see if you calmly respond that sometimes people need to question your character. As I recall that wasn’t your response.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Why would he doubt Gods justice? He knew Him pretty well. No one who knows God well doubts his justice. It’s because we KNOW He IS just.

Why would he question? He already knew.

Sorry, I thought your goal in pointing out Abraham was to give an example of someone who was questioning God. It appears I misunderstood.

I’ll remember that when Edward questions your character again. Let’s see if you calmly respond that sometimes people need to question your character. As I recall that wasn’t your response.

He does not know me at all well enough to do that, and many of his accusations were unfounded (e.g., saying I wanted to be the teacher, be hired by the church) and then he just moved to ridiculous attacks such as "you have no work ethic" and "you play video games for the last five years" such as, specifically, Call of Duty. Both of these claims were not just irrelevant but false. (That last one makes me cry with laughter since I never play video games except some puzzle games and a farming simulator. I'm a far cry from his ageist caricature of a "Fortnite kid".)

On the other hand, Habakkuk's accusation is accurate: "Why do you make me see iniquity, and why do you idly look at wrong? Destruction and violence are before me; strife and contention arise" (1:3).

 

[eddif]

Wrong. Absolutely wrong!! God himself told Job to be a man and talk to him. Abraham questioned God and it turned out quite well.

Romans 9:20 kjv
20. Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

I am going to suggest something for you to look into.
Did you look into chapter 39 of Job? Did you see the faults of the animals?

It is about how the approach is made to God.

It is not: yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil, because I am the meanest thing in the valley.

Re read Romans 9:20

Job spoke the truth, but with what attitude / approach.

Peter said (God forbid thou should suffer).

eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Sorry, I thought your goal in pointing out Abraham was to give an example of someone who was questioning God. It appears I misunderstood.

No one who knows and loves God questions his character as loving the truth is part of the package.

He does not know me at all well enough to do that, and many of his accusations were unfounded (e.g., saying I wanted to be the teacher, be hired by the church) and then he just moved to ridiculous attacks such as "you have no work ethic" and "you play video games for the last five years" such as, specifically, Call of Duty. Both of these claims were not just irrelevant but false. (That last one makes me cry with laughter since I never play video games except some puzzle games and a farming simulator. I'm a far cry from his ageist caricature of a "Fortnite kid".)

Well you didn’t say “it needs to happen sometimes.” Accusations against Gods character are even
ore false.

On the other hand, Habakkuk's accusation is accurate: "Why do you make me see iniquity, and why do you idly look at wrong? Destruction and violence are before me; strife and contention arise" (1:3).

Was not an accusation. It was a question. There is a difference.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Romans 9:20 kjv
20. Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

I am going to suggest something for you to look into.
Did you look into chapter 39 of Job? Did you see the faults of the animals?

It is about how the approach is made to God.

It is not: yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil, because I am the meanest thing in the valley.

Re read Romans 9:20

Job spoke the truth, but with what attitude / approach.

Peter said (God forbid thou should suffer).

eddif

Job did not speak the truth. That’s why God rebuked him.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Was not an accusation. It was a question. There is a difference.

He says he complained: "I will take my stand at my watchpost, and station myself on the tower, and look out to see what he will say to me, and what I will answer concerning my complaint" (Habakkuk 2:1)

Well you didn’t say “it needs to happen sometimes.”

True. My character needs to be called into question sometimes. Not in the way Edward did it, but in some ways, yes. For example

• I am bad at making decisions, generally because I over-think
• I can be lazy and dally sometimes
• I can't let arguments go
• I can occasionally be arrogant
• I get angry sometimes

I admit to all of those. Most people have the second, fourth, and fifth traits. I don't think I displayed any of those with Edward except for not being able to let arguments go. I was not angry, at least.

Accusations against Gods character are even
ore false.

I don't think so, but that's ok.

Job did not speak the truth. That’s why God rebuked him.

God never rebukes Job for speaking falsehoods, but only for questioning and finding fault. The logical conclusion, then, is that God is not primarily concerned with justice (Job's accusations were about justice), but about his own glory. Of course other biblical books display a concern on God's part for justice. But, there's no reason to think that all biblical authors had the same theology.

 

[eddif]

Job did not speak the truth. That’s why God rebuked him.

Job 42:7 kjv
7. And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

We may not agree with what Job said. But it appears God may agree.

We may think Job’s friends have Job nailed with the truth, but it appears God thinks they are wrong.

Throughout Job the friends speak error and Job speaks what is right.

eddif

 

[T. E. Smith]

We may not agree with what Job said. But it appears God may agree.

We may think Job’s friends have Job nailed with the truth, but it appears God thinks they are wrong.

Throughout Job the friends speak error and Job speaks what is right.

I think that God's last comment is with reference to Job's final, humble concession "Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know".

However, you may be correct. It's possible that, like I mentioned earlier, God acknowledges the correct-ness of Job's complaints of injustice, but still emphasizes that he must not be questioned because of how low we are.

 

[eddif]

I think that God's last comment is with reference to Job's final, humble concession "Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know".

However, you may be correct. It's possible that, like I mentioned earlier, God acknowledges the correct-ness of Job's complaints of injustice, but still emphasizes that he must not be questioned because of how low we are.

There is a chance this all ties in with why Jesus spoke in parables.
Job saw truth on a level of understanding, but Job had a greater / higher understanding later.

To talk about God is one thing, but to see it worked out is another. I sure include myself in this.
The Jewish PaRDeS

Pardes (exegesis) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Gives some thoughts on levels of understanding.

Let there be light - is words
And there was light - is seeing a manifested reality

This is sweet in mouth
Bitter in stomach

eddif