Bible Study Help, please! So confused…

[GodsGrace]

I have found a very good article at this link that talks about what you seek . And it talks about Adam and Eve, look for this heading ,C. GOD HAS GIVEN MAN FREE WILL. . Please read and give us a report . Read ALL of when you have time .
Does God Know Everything Before it Happens?

Great article.
Thanks for linking.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hello AD,
Before commenting on God's plan and purpose.....consider He and His plan are PERFECT.....it cannot be improved upon.
Isa.46: 9-11

I think she wants to understand not say they’re imperfect.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I just couldn't understand why you seemed to keep insisting that Gods' people destroyed Jerusalem and also how you thought I believed sin could only be committed against God.

I can’t understand why you keep accusing me of that, something I NEVER EVER said. Please get it straight and you can read the unbiased history if you don’t believe me.

THE ROMANS (not christians) DESTROYED JERUSALEM IN 70 AD!!!

Second, you need to admit that sin is against man too. If you leave that out, you’re saying it’s only against God always. I know it’s humbling to admit we’ve sinned against man, but leaving that but out is an injustice to God.

 

[Adelaide]

Hello AD,
Before commenting on God's plan and purpose.....consider He and His plan are PERFECT.....it cannot be improved upon.
Isa.46: 9-11

I’m going to respond with something Galileo famously said:

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.

 

[Adelaide]

Greetings, Adelaide.

It's actually Chapter 2, and the version you're quoting is loose; not an actual translation but a paraphrase.

Genesis 2:15-17 reads:

15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

The actual wording is, "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil," not "the one that has the power to let you know the difference between right and wrong." Adam knew right and wrong. He was informed of right and wrong when God told him not to eat of the tree. The "knowledge" God did not want Adam experiencing was in intimately knowing the enemy by partaking of sin.

Always good to ask questions. Even better to find answers : )

God bless,
Hidden In Him

You’re right! Good catch, my bad. It is indeed Chapter 2. So the version I was quoting- it’s just a whole Bible of paraphrasing, not an actual translation? I’m not being snarky, I’m genuinely asking.

And if the knowledge God didn’t want Adam to experience was knowing the enemy, this raises another question. Why did he allow the enemy to use a snake and tempt Eve into sinning? Why couldn’t they have been left to make the decision entirely on their own?

 

[Adelaide]

I think she wants to understand not say they’re imperfect.

Thank you, yes. Just trying to understand as best as I can.

 

[Hidden In Him]

So the version I was quoting- it’s just a whole Bible of paraphrasing, not an actual translation?

I don't actually know what you are using, Adelaide. I'm simply telling you the rendering of that verse you provided was a paraphrase, not a strict word-for-word translation.

And if the knowledge God didn’t want Adam to experience was knowing the enemy, this raises another question. Why did he allow the enemy to use a snake and tempt Eve into sinning? Why couldn’t they have been left to make the decision entirely on their own?

The Lord set up a situation where mankind would require redemption, and He did it to eliminate pride from the Heaven He was preparing in advance from the foundation of the world for His people to enjoy eternally. This is why a true Christian must embrace humility. It's also why the enemy of mankind hates true Christian teaching. The god of this world is prideful, and incites anyone who comes under his influence to the same pride, arrogance, and hatred of God as he harbors. His children despise anything that would implicate them as guilty, so they instead gravitate towards blaming God instead, at his instigation.

Pray to the Lord Jesus Christ that by His grace He reveals to you the answers you are seeking. You could hear it from men and yet not perceive it to be the truth, but if you pray to the True and Living God, He will make it known to you beyond doubt.

God bless, and good luck in your search for the truth.
Hidden In Him

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes He does. We can't ever recall meeting Him and most people says that God is angry and abuses many people. That just isn't so but it still leaves people not trusting God.

God proving that we can trust Him is very easy for Him. One or two blessings and you'll be jumping up and down yelling I trust you Jesus, I trust you Jesus, I Trust You Jesus! :yes

Think of it as building a Resume of Trust between you and the Lord. He will solidly demonstrate to you that He can be trusted in whichever situation. He Always confirms it for you,

The hard part is getting the Lord to trust us. I used to be pretty free with my promises to the Lord, but not so much anymore. I wind up breaking my word...I think it might be impossible for a human to be 100% trustworthy until after we are redeemed and perfected.

Mean time, we repent for it, and pray more seriously next time.

Funny, I agree with all you've said,
but I still believe that God is sovereign and does not have to earn our trust.

IOW, God doesn't have to WORK for our trust.
Eventually we come to trust Him because we see, looking back, that everything turns out the way it's supposed to,
or at least, He helps us to rummage through life's odds and ends.

Haven't thought about this too much,
if you have anything further to add, it would be interesting.

IOW, the bible does teach us to trust God.
Does it say anywhere that He has to earn this trust?
To earn something means you worked for it...
Did God have to EARN our trust?

 

[GodsGrace]

You’re right! Good catch, my bad. It is indeed Chapter 2. So the version I was quoting- it’s just a whole Bible of paraphrasing, not an actual translation? I’m not being snarky, I’m genuinely asking.

And if the knowledge God didn’t want Adam to experience was knowing the enemy, this raises another question. Why did he allow the enemy to use a snake and tempt Eve into sinning? Why couldn’t they have been left to make the decision entirely on their own?

I don't know what version you're using, but it certainly is not a TRANSLATION of the bible, which, as you know, was originally written in Greek.

A translation takes a word for word approach and translates as best as is possible from the Greek...not something easy to do.

A paraphrase takes THE IDEA of what the scripture is saying, but the problem with this is that you often get the opinion of the translator(s) and not the actual idea of the writer of the particular books of the bible.

I like the NASB for study purposes and have been using it for about 40 years.
Recently I've started to use the NLT but I always find myself checking back to the NASB. Hard to break old habits.

I don't care for the KJV because it was written 400 years ago and we have such better hermeneutics today.

There's a good link to familiarize yourself with the different versions.
Hope I could find it !

source: https://godsword.org/pages/bible-translation-guide

 

[GodsGrace]

You’re right! Good catch, my bad. It is indeed Chapter 2. So the version I was quoting- it’s just a whole Bible of paraphrasing, not an actual translation? I’m not being snarky, I’m genuinely asking.

And if the knowledge God didn’t want Adam to experience was knowing the enemy, this raises another question. Why did he allow the enemy to use a snake and tempt Eve into sinning? Why couldn’t they have been left to make the decision entirely on their own?

I just wanted to add that this is why you kept talking about the right and wrong in the Genesis account.

It's not that:
It's the TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.

Until that point, A and E knew only GOOD.
Once they ate of the forbidden fruit, they also knew of the EVIL.
They allowed evil to enter into the human race through them.
Every person that was born after them had this sinful nature imbedded into them from the original parents, Adam and Eve - who represented all of humankind.

This is why they had not noticed that they were naked before.
They were innocent.
After they ate, they became conscious of their nakedness -
all sorts of ideas entered in: Shame, Pride, Disobedience, Fear, etc.

They broke relationships:
With each other
With themselves
With God
With nature

Nothing would ever be the same again.

 

[GodsGrace]

You’re right! Good catch, my bad. It is indeed Chapter 2. So the version I was quoting- it’s just a whole Bible of paraphrasing, not an actual translation? I’m not being snarky, I’m genuinely asking.

And if the knowledge God didn’t want Adam to experience was knowing the enemy, this raises another question. Why did he allow the enemy to use a snake and tempt Eve into sinning? Why couldn’t they have been left to make the decision entirely on their own?

I posted about how God allows things to happen.

The alternative would be for God to plan everything that happens.
Would you have preferred that?

You have to realize, however, that if you were just following God's predetermined plan you'd basically be a robot.
God wants to love you and have you love Him back.

Could a robot love?
Or does love have to be free?

God gave Adam the choice as to whether or not he should eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
God did tell Adam not to, but Adam did not obey.

The only alternative would have been to create Adam as a robot and not as a free human being.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I don't actually know what you are using, Adelaide. I'm simply telling you the rendering of that verse you provided was a paraphrase, not a strict word-for-word translation.


The Lord set up a situation where mankind would require redemption, and He did it to eliminate pride from the Heaven He was preparing in advance from the foundation of the world for His people to enjoy eternally. This is why a true Christian must embrace humility. It's also why the enemy of mankind hates true Christian teaching. The god of this world is prideful, and incites anyone who comes under his influence to the same pride, arrogance, and hatred of God as he harbors. His children despise anything that would implicate them as guilty, so they instead gravitate towards blaming God instead, at his instigation.

Pray to the Lord Jesus Christ that by His grace He reveals to you the answers you are seeking. You could hear it from men and yet not perceive it to be the truth, but if you pray to the True and Living God, He will make it known to you beyond doubt.

God bless, and good luck in your search for the truth.
Hidden In Him

I debated whether to speak to this theory of Gods motivation but out of love for Him I need to defend his character. God did NOT set up a situation where man would need redemption because we needed to be humbled. That is, in a manner of speaking, blaming God for the situation. It’s also pretty mean. That wasn’t his motivation and nothing in scripture says it was.

Second, truth is not found by asking for it in prayer. It’s found, according to Jesus, by keeping (doing) what he taught.

“He who keeps my teaching will know the truth.”

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I can’t understand why you keep accusing me of that, something I NEVER EVER said. Please get it straight and you can read the unbiased history if you don’t believe me.

THE ROMANS (not christians) DESTROYED JERUSALEM IN 70 AD!!!

Second, you need to admit that sin is against man too. If you leave that out, you’re saying it’s only against God always. I know it’s humbling to admit we’ve sinned against man, but leaving that but out is an injustice to God.

I've already explained where my misunderstanding of what you said came from. Have a wonder filled day.

 

[for_his_glory]

History shows that people seem to learn and then make the same mistakes so they learned but never arrived at truth. It’s also called selective learning or forgetting.

for_his_glory, I’m very surprise you liked a post where the poster out and out says she didn’t believe scripture. She denied that scripture told the truth and you liked it. I assume you didn’t know it was scripture which is also embarrassing for someone who claims to be a teacher of scripture.

You’ve chastised me for not quoting scripture. I actually do but I weave it into my text naturally without blinking lights and “heads up..don’t disagree, it’s Bible.” I do this so I can find who knows scripture from living it and not merely demonstrates that they can cut and paste. These believers I seek. Truthfully, I long to find them.

Which post did Adelaide say she did not believe scripture.

Yes, I agreed with Adelaide that searching brings us to learning that does arrive at the truth when we study the Bible and also the history within it as the Holy Spirit teaches us all things that God wants us to learn. There is no shame in asking questions, it's when we stop asking is what can be harmful for our understanding. We do have to apply faith to those things we do not have full understanding of that is written as many things will remain a mystery to us.

Why would I have needed scripture for what I said in agreeing with her. Do you, I or anyone have all truth, no, so we keep seeking for knowledge.

As you can see that many do not always agree with each other, but yet it's up to each one to search out truth. Do you, I or anyone else hold all truths, no as we are not infallible.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Which post did Adelaide say she did not believe scripture.

I said it’s possible to be ever learning but never come to
a knowledge of the truth. She disagreed and you agreed with her both of you unaware that scripture says that. I quoted it without the bold blinking lights.

Yes, I agreed with Adelaide that searching brings us to learning that does arrive at the truth when we study the Bible and also the history within it as the Holy Spirit teaches us all things that God wants us to learn.

Jesus said “keeping his word” brings us truth. That’s a LOT harder and more humbling. Knowledges makes us proud. Obedience doesn’t.

There is no shame in asking questions, it's when we stop asking is what can be harmful for our understanding. We do have to apply faith to those things we do not have full understanding of that is written as many things will remain a mystery to us.

Why would I have needed scripture for what I said in agreeing with her. Do you, I or anyone have all truth, no, so we keep seeking for knowledge.

I never said you needed to cut and paste scripture there.

As you can see that many do not always agree with each other, but yet it's up to each one to search out truth.

True, but not all opinions match the truth.

Do you, I or anyone else hold all truths, no as we are not infallible.

What that have to do with anything? What world expert claims they know all truth about their expertise? That’s really a silly argument. The goal isn’t all truth. The goal is any or even some truth.

 

[Edward]

Funny, I agree with all you've said,
but I still believe that God is sovereign and does not have to earn our trust.

IOW, God doesn't have to WORK for our trust.
Eventually we come to trust Him because we see, looking back, that everything turns out the way it's supposed to,
or at least, He helps us to rummage through life's odds and ends.

Haven't thought about this too much,
if you have anything further to add, it would be interesting.

IOW, the bible does teach us to trust God.
Does it say anywhere that He has to earn this trust?
To earn something means you worked for it...
Did God have to EARN our trust?

I believe you are correct in that, God is sovereign and doesn't have to prove anything to us. Nevertheless, God is Love and knows the true value of our worth. Not our worth as compared to God but rather our worth to Him in His mind and heart. So He payed a priceless price for us.

Personally, I don't get this. I am nothing. I am nobody. But there's something there that we should look at closer. When Jesus said, it is finished on the cross it meant so much. Every blessing for every person ever to be born on earth was in place at that time that He said, it is finished.

So it's not like God has to do something extra for us to earn our trust. The blessings which bring the trust were already in place waiting to be released at the proper time because God knew I would doubt at that point. He knew you would doubt and need some encouragment! So it's more about our development (spiritual) than any test of God. But mankind is fairly feeble minded and so we are blessed that our Lord is Longsuffering with us! Yay!

God is so far ahead of us in the things that He thinks about that we are like that we could never outguess God! Most people build beliefs on what they can see. So it's easy for us to say, trust God? Why, what has He ever done for me? And since God has a good sense of humor, He has made preperations for that, lol. So I suppose it's not is God trustworthy and will He prove it, but more along the lines of, we can learn the we can trust God (the entire issue is a man issue and not a God issue!). And God loves this stuff! When you dare to trust God in situations in life...it can be scary because God is not big on details, and now we can realize that at this point trusting God is having Faith in God and His word. And it's these situations where, yo me, God has been (last minute never late) Johnny on the spot with what I need.

I guess what we are talking about is walking in faith. In everyday life. God responds to acts of faith. Prolly getting too long?

 

[Edward]

Jesus said “keeping his word” brings us truth. That’s a LOT harder and more humbling. Knowledges makes us proud. Obedience doesn’t.

In that passage, does His word translate as Rhema or Logos?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I’m going to respond with something Galileo famously said:

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.

This is so excellent I’m going to remember it!! Thank you so much for posting it!!!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Funny, I agree with all you've said,
but I still believe that God is sovereign and does not have to earn our trust.

IOW, God doesn't have to WORK for our trust.
Eventually we come to trust Him because we see, looking back, that everything turns out the way it's supposed to,
or at least, He helps us to rummage through life's odds and ends.

Haven't thought about this too much,
if you have anything further to add, it would be interesting.

IOW, the bible does teach us to trust God.
Does it say anywhere that He has to earn this trust?
To earn something means you worked for it...
Did God have to EARN our trust?

If we start will thinking God must “perform” to earn our trust, we will never arrive at trusting Him. He will refuse to perform out of love for us.

The truth is we have to earn His trust. That sheds a different like on who is the granting party and who is the servant. But this is actually how it works. We really do have to earn His trust if we want Him to trust us with that which is valuable.

“And if you have not been trustworthy with someone else’s property, who will give you property of your own?”

 

[Adelaide]

I said it’s possible to be ever learning but never come to
a knowledge of the truth. She disagreed and you agreed with her both of you unaware that scripture says that. I quoted it without the bold blinking lights.

For my sake, please quote things with bold, blinking lights. It’s actually more helpful to me if you can just show me where the Bible says this.