Bible Study Help, please! So confused…

[Dorothy Mae]

So it wasn’t that he gave them the choice to sin, it was that they chose to sin…

Does anyone else see this as circular reasoning?

I think that reasoning isn’t even reasoning. God made them able to choose among options.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The article by morrison is a horrible caricature...it gets it more wrong than right.

Morrison understands man but doesn’t know God. His thinking of how God experiences time is his human reasoning sans divine input pure. In short, he just made it all up without consulting God.

The irony is, he counsels others not to “fas yerself with such things” and then violates his own advise by giving detailed descriptions of the matter. When you encounter this, you know you’re dealing with someone who does not love truth. The love of truth makes a man say, “I don’t know” even when in direct violate of the culture that demands an opinion even if ignorant.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Good and evil, disobedience, freewill, hell and predestination all rolled into one from the OP how it has branched out from the first question Adelaide had in her OP. I think the topic is all over the place so pick one, pick them all and just go for it I guess,

I would pick something, but I di see what the peoblem is.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

What??? God ensured that the Gentiles came and trampled on Jerusalem and Judea, for that matter, destroying it punishing those who pieces Him.

Yes, the pagan gentiles, not christians. Ok Dorothy? Please understand how Christ' followers were taught to leave vengeance to God,

Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Rom.12:19

Why then does Jesus tell us to forgive those who wronged us? Why doesn’t he agree with you that doing wrong to others doesn’t matter, just wronging God?

I never said wronging others doesn't matter to anyone. Of course it matters to every caring soul God made.
You just seem to be having trouble with my point, which again, is that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the epitomy of caring souls. No one ever cared more about mankind than the Messiah.
And the reason for showing just how he cared toward even people who didn't love him, was so we would know that love of God and treat the rest of humanity his way, which is in mercy.
I think 99% of my problems disappear, when I remember I'm not the judge.

 

[WIP]

I don’t want the answers after I die. That’s unacceptable. I want them now.

Don't we all? But, who are we to direct God? In the book of Job we can read about someone that suffered and in the latter chapters it talks about when God answers Job's questions.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes, the pagan gentiles, not christians. Ok Dorothy? Please understand how Christ' followers were taught to leave vengeance to God,

I never said any different did I?

Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Rom.12:19

Absolutely!! And he did!

I never said wronging others doesn't matter to anyone. Of course it matters to every caring soul God made.

Why did you then say that sin is ONLY against God?

You just seem to be having trouble with my point, which again, is that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the epitomy of caring souls. No one ever cared more about mankind than the Messiah.

Never in dispute.

And the reason for showing just how he cared toward even people who didn't love him, was so we would know that love of God and treat the rest of humanity his way, which is in mercy.
I think 99% of my problems disappear, when I remember I'm not the judge.

Ok. Just you judged me as having “trouble with your point” which is untrue. You are right. Would have been better without the judgement.

Don't we all? But, who are we to direct God? In the book of Job we can read about someone that suffered and in the latter chapters it talks about when God answers Job's questions.

Jesus promises if we do his commands we shall know the truth. Not very many want the truth if you read their writings. If they did, they’d respond differently.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Why did you then say that sin is ONLY against God?

I didn't mean to imply that. When I cited King David saying,

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, Psa.51:4

I didn't mean to imply that sin is only against God, but that sin is always against God. I believe David (and the rest of the scriptures agree that all sin is against God, but not only against him.
My basic reasoning for my belief, is that God created all things and since everything is his property, any misuse of it is wronging him.

Dorothy Mae said:
Ok. Just you judged me as having “trouble with your point” which is untrue. You are right. Would have been better without the judgement.

I wasn't passing judgement on you. I was trying to understand why you seemed to be objecting to my position. I'm beginning to see that when I post something, I often leave out details that would clarify my point better.

Jesus promises if we do his commands we shall know the truth. Not very many want the truth if you read their writings. If they did, they’d respond differently.

I agree completely with you on this. I remember thinking of myself as a Christian because I attended church. I made an alter call. I got baptized. I ate the cracker and sipped the grape juice.....but I didn't know him very well.

Sorry for all the bolding. I tried to edit it out, but don't how.

 

[jesusfollower]

I’m a fairly recent believer and I’ve been taking the time to really read through the Bible and meditate on certain passages, but I have a couple questions about a verse that’s really perplexing me!

Genesis Ch.1
15 The LORD God put the man in the Garden of Eden to take care of it and to look after it. 16 But the LORD told him, “You may eat fruit from any tree in the garden, 17 except the one that has the power to let you know the difference between right and wrong. If you eat any fruit from that tree, you will die before the day is over!”

Firstly, why doesn’t God wish them to know right from wrong? And, how is Adam to understand it’s wrong to eat from the tree if he lacks the power of knowing right from wrong? How is he to understand that disobeying God is wrong?

Hello Adelaide, for your first question, I know that the knowledge of evil can corrupt the soul. We are very Young spirits and are very susceptible to corrupt, evil knowledge, it is why we should not pursue certain knowledge. As for understanding what is wrong, I believe God gave us the commandments as a moral compass. I also believe most of us if not all of us know by instinct what is wrong, we have free will to do or not to do what is wrong. When you disobey a direct command from GOD you sin. We also need to use critical thinking like you are doing now by asking these questions, it is by searching for the truth that you will find it. Before believe anything I do really think twice, especially in this day and age where lies are prevalent all around us.

Peace.

JFF

 

[GodsGrace]

I’m not asking the questions I am as a result of a life of ease.
Quite the opposite- in my 41 years I’ve experienced far more than your average person. Suffering is my bedside companion, trust me.

I don’t want the answers after I die. That’s unacceptable. I want them now.

LOL
You're a young spring chicken!

OK
Let's say you're not going to get all the answers now.
What do you do now?
Abandon a God you know exists because you don't know everything about Him?
Learn to dislike Him as some do?
What is the alternative?

This is one of my favorite bible verses:
John 6:67-68 (after some of the disciples had left Jesus)
67So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?”
68Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life."

 

[GodsGrace]

I didn't mean to imply that. When I cited King David saying,

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, Psa.51:4

I didn't mean to imply that sin is only against God, but that sin is always against God. I believe David (and the rest of the scriptures agree that all sin is against God, but not only against him.
My basic reasoning for my belief, is that God created all things and since everything is his property, any misuse of it is wronging him.

I wasn't passing judgement on you. I was trying to understand why you seemed to be objecting to my position. I'm beginning to see that when I post something, I often leave out details that would clarify my point better.

I agree completely with you on this. I remember thinking of myself as a Christian because I attended church. I made an alter call. I got baptized. I ate the cracker and sipped the grape juice.....but I didn't know him very well.

Sorry for all the bolding. I tried to edit it out, but don't how.

Highlight what you want to unbold.
hit:
Ctrl b
(Ctrl and the letter b)

 

[GodsGrace]

Hello Adelaide, for your first question, I know that the knowledge of evil can corrupt the soul. We are very Young spirits and are very susceptible to corrupt, evil knowledge, it is why we should not pursue certain knowledge. As for understanding what is wrong, I believe God gave us the commandments as a moral compass. I also believe most of us if not all of us know by instinct what is wrong, we have free will to do or not to do what is wrong. When you disobey a direct command from GOD you sin. We also need to use critical thinking like you are doing now by asking these questions, it is by searching for the truth that you will find it. Before believe anything I do really think twice, especially in this day and age where lies are prevalent all around us.

Peace.

JFF

Hi Jesusfollower,
Very nice post!
Welcome to the forum.

 

[Adelaide]

I have found a very good article at this link that talks about what you seek . And it talks about Adam and Eve, look for this heading ,C. GOD HAS GIVEN MAN FREE WILL. . Please read and give us a report . Read ALL of when you have time .
Does God Know Everything Before it Happens?

Thanks for sharing that. It was well written and well reasoned. My only issue with it was that it was simply his opinion, albeit a good one.

 

[Adelaide]

i do feel they Chose why he allowed the tree there dont know

this is from a commentary i read along the way.
The tree of life… the tree of the knowledge of good and evil: These two trees were among all the other trees God created and put in the Garden of Eden.

i. The tree of life was to grant (or to sustain) eternal life (Genesis 3:22). God still has a tree of life available to His people (Revelation 2:7), which is in heaven (Revelation 22:2).

ii. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was the “temptation” tree. Eating the fruit of this tree would give Adam an experiential knowledge of good and evil. Or, it is possible that it is called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil not so man would know good and evil, but so God could test good and evil in man. all this is just a person thought
a circling reason ? maybe yes maybe no facts are God made man adam put him in Charge he failed himself and his wife and failed God testing i think so not sure we will ever know

Nope, we’ll never know. Only have more questions…

 

[Adelaide]

Can you explain what you mean by circular reasoning?

Simply that we could argue this in circles, always returning to the same question.

 

[Adelaide]

So you suggest God is less than perfect?
You seek to blame God for mans sin?

I’m not suggesting anything. I’m just trying to understand things.

 

[WIP]

Highlight what you want to unbold.
hit:
Ctrl b
(Ctrl and the letter b)

Or just click the bold button, B, and that will work too.

 

[Adelaide]

You again are looking to find fault with a perfect
God......do you not see this is pride and profane?
Are you suggesting if you yourself were God, you would have improved on what the true and living God has done?

Think again on that.

I have questions. I can’t help it if I like to think about things.

 

[Adelaide]

For you, you cannot maintain the position of your excellent father being right because you love him and having truth. If the truth goes against your father’s position, which will you choose? (Just for you to consider)

Why do you assume I agree with my dad? I brought him up as an example but I haven’t believed a word out of his mouth for the last ten years.

 

[jesusfollower]

LOL
You're a young spring chicken!

OK
Let's say you're not going to get all the answers now.
What do you do now?
Abandon a God you know exists because you don't know everything about Him?
Learn to dislike Him as some do?
What is the alternative?

This is one of my favorite bible verses:
John 6:67-68 (after some of the disciples had left Jesus)
67So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?”
68Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life."

Hello Adelaide,

I certify that I am no spring chicken, lol.

As for answers, ask the lord for guidance, GOD will point you in the right direction no doubt. Ask and ask again he would answer at the proper time. Do not forget, GOD will test your heart, so do not abandon, persist. Prayer for guidance is very powerful.

As for knowing everything about GOD this is impossible. The almighty, perfect living GOD, knows an infinity of perfect things that we cannot yet grasp, he is very HOLY beyond our imagination, but one day, we may come to understand more if he wills it and if we have the capacity to understand.

John, 17 is my favorite bible chapter, it hint's at man's great potential if we belong to Christ. John is my favorite apostle!

Blessings and never hesitate to ask questions it is a good way to go..

JFF

 

[jesusfollower]

Hi Jesusfollower,
Very nice post!
Welcome to the forum.

Thank-You,

Blessings.

JFF