His Death alone Justifies the Ungodly, some of them !

[beloved57]

This is where false religion goes dreadfully wrong and shows all manner of disdain and dishonor to the accomplishment of the death of Christ alone for sinners. They don't believe as to the Testimony of scripture, that those Christ died for, by His Death alone for them, apart from any obedience, faith, repentance of their own, but even as they are ungodly rebel sinners like other men and women by nature, that by His death alone they are made righteous, and totally Justified before God without any one sin laid to their charge. Now scriptures that validate this Truth are as follows, all for whom Christ died, by His death alone have had all their sins before God purged away, Heb 1:3

who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

You see that ? By Himself alone, those He died for, purged their sins. That word purged is the greek word katharismós and means:

cleansing, purifying, purification, literal, ceremonial, or moral; met: expiation.

Its a cleansing/purification which results from God removing undesirable admixtures (eliminating impurities). Its

a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ,. Hence not one charge of sin can be charged to any sinner Christ died for, as so intimates Rom 8:33-34

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

You see that ? The non charge of sin is based upon the fact that Christ died, and so dying He purged their sins, and cleansed them from all guilt of their sins, which freely Justifies them while yet they themselves are yet remaining ungodly by nature ! This is a Precious Truth false religion which glorifies man cannot receive.

 

[reba]

This post is confusing..

 

[reba]

I do not understand they way you relate your points to the scriptures you have posted..

Seems like a lot of words to say
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[beloved57]

His Death alone Justifies the Ungodly, some of them !2

Another scripture that evidences that those whom Christ died for are by His death alone Justified, made righteous before God, even while they are ungodly sinners in themselves is Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Christ death alone perfected forever them He died for. Thats there total Justification before God, their perfection and righteousness before God, not based upon their faith, obedience, repentance, water baptism, but soley based upon His Offering, which is His Death.

Also His death alone is what sanctifies them Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus[His Death]Christ once for all.

Heb 13:12

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

His own blood was purposed to sanctify His People, His Church, as in Eph 5:25-26

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Now this Sanctifying and Perfecting of those Christ died for is a fact before God even while those He died for are in a ungodly, unbelieving, and rebellious state by nature, because its solely premised on the Offering of Christ !

 

[beloved57]

eugene

Dear beloved57, this near sounds akin to the Calvin’s doctrine of irresistible grace, though you further it by including all humanity if I understand you.

Please focus on what I explicitly posted and the scriptures I used to make my point, thats what I want to discuss !

 

[OzSpen]

eugene

Please focus on what I explicitly posted and the scriptures I used to make my point, thats what I want to discuss !

eugene

Please focus on what I explicitly posted and the scriptures I used to make my point, thats what I want to discuss !

Beloved57,

That's the problem. You do not state it clearly so that I can focus explicitly on the Scriptures you used.

However, since your footnote theme is, 'Saved by sovereign grace', is your OP meant to convey your support for irresistible grace, but using the language of justification by faith and 'Christ death alone perfected forever them He died for' (limited atonement)?

I agree with Reba that your language is confusing. Why don't you start with one of your TULIP theological points and give us, say, 3 quick statements so that we can discuss/debate it?

Oz

 

[beloved57]

Beloved57,

That's the problem. You do not state it clearly so that I can focus explicitly on the Scriptures you used.

However, since your footnote theme is, 'Saved by sovereign grace', is your OP meant to convey your support for irresistible grace, but using the language of justification by faith and 'Christ death alone perfected forever them He died for' (limited atonement)?

I agree with Reba that your language is confusing. Why don't you start with one of your TULIP theological points and give us, say, 3 quick statements so that we can discuss/debate it?

Oz

What did I post, let's start with that.

 

[JLB]

14 For by one offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Here Paul shows the process, by which we are sanctified by God.

19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:19-21

The process of sanctification involves both God, and the one being sanctified: to both believe and repent of the things that are keeping them from being cleansed.



JLB

 

[beloved57]

jlb

Here Paul shows the process, by which we are sanctified by God.

Its not a process, it is stated to be by the death of Christ. And they are permanently sanctified by it !

 

[dianegcook]

Hi beloved57
You can't take one verse and that is it...as most Pastors do...
Take the whole book of Hebrews..
Christians must "give the more earnest heed" Heb.2:1
Must not have an unbelieving heart that turns away from the Living God..3:12
Must enter God's rest.. 4:10
Must not fall away...6:6
Must hold unswervingly to the hope they profess..10:23
Must fix their eyes constantly on the example of Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith12:12
In Thankfulness they must worship God acceptably with reverence and awe..12:28

The "buts" have it, lol..
Good day...

 

[beloved57]

all for whom Christ died, by His death alone have had all their sins before God purged away, Heb 1:3

who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Now those whom Christ died for, their sins have been purged away. That cant be said of all mankind without exception, since some shall die in their sins in unbelief Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Its impossible for folk Christ died for to die in their sins since they have been purged away already !

 

[reba]

His Death alone Justifies the Ungodly, some of them !2

Another scripture that evidences that those whom Christ died for are by His death alone Justified, made righteous before God, even while they are ungodly sinners in themselves is Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Christ death alone perfected forever them He died for. Thats there total Justification before God, their perfection and righteousness before God, not based upon their faith, obedience, repentance, water baptism, but soley based upon His Offering, which is His Death.

Also His death alone is what sanctifies them Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus[His Death]Christ once for all.

Heb 13:12

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

His own blood was purposed to sanctify His People, His Church, as in Eph 5:25-26

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Now this Sanctifying and Perfecting of those Christ died for is a fact before God even while those He died for are in a ungodly, unbelieving, and rebellious state by nature, because its solely premised on the Offering of Christ !

This post reads to me different then the simple John 3, 16 , i get the strong impression the OP is trying to force a theology out of Scripture that is just not there...
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[WIP]

I'd be interested to hear the OP's definition of "those Christ died for." Who does the OP claim they are?

 

[Chopper]

I get the same impression that you're getting Reba. It seems to me that beloved 57 is pushing a false doctrine that since Christ Jesus....

when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down

He also states....

They don't believe as to the Testimony of scripture, that those Christ died for, by His Death alone for them, apart from any obedience, faith, repentance of their own

....Since beloved57 speaks extensively on what he calls "false religion" and very little on the Scriptural method of Salvation, as Reba quotes John 3:16, I'm getting warning signs. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[turnorburn]

This is where false religion goes dreadfully wrong and shows all manner of disdain and dishonor to the accomplishment of the death of Christ alone for sinners. They don't believe as to the Testimony of scripture, that those Christ died for, by His Death alone for them, apart from any obedience, faith, repentance of their own, but even as they are ungodly rebel sinners like other men and women by nature, that by His death alone they are made righteous, and totally Justified before God without any one sin laid to their charge. Now scriptures that validate this Truth are as follows, all for whom Christ died, by His death alone have had all their sins before God purged away, Heb 1:3

who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

You see that ? By Himself alone, those He died for, purged their sins. That word purged is the greek word katharismós and means:

cleansing, purifying, purification, literal, ceremonial, or moral; met: expiation.

Its a cleansing/purification which results from God removing undesirable admixtures (eliminating impurities). Its

a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ,. Hence not one charge of sin can be charged to any sinner Christ died for, as so intimates Rom 8:33-34

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

You see that ? The non charge of sin is based upon the fact that Christ died, and so dying He purged their sins, and cleansed them from all guilt of their sins, which freely Justifies them while yet they themselves are yet remaining ungodly by nature ! This is a Precious Truth false religion which glorifies man cannot receive.

What's your point?

*edit: in one sentence please...

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

The without belief and without faith gets me Beloved57.

I think I get what your saying, compairing belief and faith to other things that we do. Works verses grace, where even our faith and belief is a work that we do. But that said, Jesus said that his message was not for the world because the world is not looking for him. (Looking for the verse that says this, but can't find it yet.) And that no one can accept Jesus unless His Father brought them to Jesus. John 6:44. This unfortunate reality suggests that there are those who won't be saved. Or if they are saved even in their unbelief, it would be nice to hear a verse to confirm that. Personally, I'm not so sure that that is biblically taught. That we don't need to believe seems to be different from Jesus's message to believe in Him. But those that don't won't be saved. At least I'm sure that's a warning stated in the bible.

The second aspect though is about being saved as opposed to following Jesus. If there is a difference between the two, and a person can be saved, and turn away and still hold onto that salvation they initially received, then that's great on how great God's grace is. However we are still called to follow Jesus's teachings. The sting of not fearing hell or damnation, isn't an excuse to not follow Jesus, and do works that we are called to do. (As well as avoid sins we are told to not do.). Even without the sting of death we should stil strive for ourselves to be faithful, obedient, and believing and acting on those beliefs and teachings, even to spread those teachings to others and to eachother. These are things we are called to do regardless of our salvation or our reward in heaven. We should do these things because we love Jesus, and because we love God. John 14:15.

 

[beloved57]

Now them Christ died for and purged away their sins Heb 1:3, also permanently sanctifying them Heb 10:10, His death also perfected them forever Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

And them that are sanctified are also them He died for Heb 10:10.

Now since all men without exception are perfected forever, Christ's death could not have been for all men without exception, which the bible never teaches any way ! He died for His Sheep Jn 10:11,15 !

 

[reba]

Now them Christ died for and purged away their sins Heb 1:3, also permanently sanctifying them Heb 10:10, His death also perfected them forever Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

And them that are sanctified are also them He died for Heb 10:10.

Now since all men without exception are perfected forever, Christ's death could not have been for all men without exception, which the bible never teaches any way ! He died for His Sheep Jn 10:11,15 !

Now them Christ died for and purged away their sins Heb 1:3, also permanently sanctifying them Heb 10:10, His death also perfected them forever Heb 10:14 who do you consider their and them to be ?

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

And them that are sanctified are also them He died for Heb 10:10.

Now since all men without exception are perfected forever, Christ's death could not have been for all men without exception, which the bible never teaches any way ! He died for His Sheep Jn 10:11,15 !

How do you read John 3 16,17,18?
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This passage does not say... For God so loved the world, His sheep that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever which ever sheep believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world sheep through him might be saved.

He The sheep that believeth on him is not condemned: but he The sheep that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Sinthesis]

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

You see that ? The non charge of sin is based upon the fact that Christ died, and so dying He purged their sins, and cleansed them from all guilt of their sins, which freely Justifies them while yet they themselves are yet remaining ungodly by nature ! This is a Precious Truth false religion which glorifies man cannot receive.

That scripture emphasizes that It is the Risen Christ who makes intercession for us, not some dead christ.

 

[Sinthesis]

I perceive this thread is another attempt to push the problematic ideas of limited atonement and irresistible grace. Those two ideas only work within a particular context, otherwise they are plainly contradicted by John 3:16 among other verses.