HOLY SPIRIT convicts of what?

[smaller]

I dont know what kind of "christians" you know but you need to find some real ones!

I am more interested in honest ones.

And you need the Holy Spirit to tell you murder is wrong?

You are right. Even an unsaved person has more sense than that.

only the religious can murder others and not have a guilty conscience!

Believers do worse than murder each others in their hearts everyday. Why do you think that is?

s

 

[WIP]

Sounds like things are getting a little more personal than need be.

 

[Mitspa]

Sounds like things are getting a little more personal than need be.

For my part I am sorry, I seem to get drawn away from the point of the thread! I believe the Holy Spirit is trying to convict me of staying on topic but flesh seems to want to responed with some smart answer lol!

from now on, I will listen to the Righteous Spirit of God and not be drawn into such usless banter. - Mitspa

 

[ezra]

I believe the Holy Spirit is trying to convict me of staying on topic

i rest my case you just said it made my point convict you. look what you just confessed .the holy spirit is trying to convict you . which is his job have a good day

 

[Mitspa]

i rest my case you just said it made my point convict you. look what you just confessed .the holy spirit is trying to convict you . which is his job have a good day

Ezra, I have stated over and over that I desire an honest discussion of what it means to be "convicted of righteousness" not sin! To lifted to a higher place not be torn down! The teaching of the Holy Spirit convicting believers of sin, has no biblical proof! The Holy Spirit reminding us to act as sons and daughters of God is a different subject all togather! Bringing us into victory, In Christ, is much different than what has been taught in the church for many years!

You know I have made that point, several times on this thread?

One should never think as the Holy Spirit as anything other than The Grace of Christ, that edifies and builds us up in Him!

Now the Holy Spirits work against satan and demonic forces is an altogether different matter?

 

[ezra]

Ezra, I have stated over and over that I desire an honest discussion of what it means to be "convicted of righteousness" not sin! To lifted to a higher place not be torn down! The teaching of the Holy Spirit convicting believers of sin, has no biblical proof! The Holy Spirit reminding us to act as sons and daughters of God is a different subject all togather! Bringing us into victory, In Christ, is much different than what has been taught in the church for many years!

You know I have made that point, several times on this thread?

One should never think as the Holy Spirit as anything other than The Grace of Christ, that edifies and builds us up in Him!

Now the Holy Spirits work against satan and demonic forces is an altogether different matter?

you can say it how you want. i am simply taking opportunity to make a point. if he is convicting us of righteousness.then that means we have done wrong===which amounts to sin .

Hebrews 12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

! I believe the Holy Spirit is trying to convict me of staying on topic but flesh seems to want to responed with some smart answer lol!

your words helped drive my point home. have a good evening

 

[Mitspa]

you can say it how you want. i am simply taking opportunity to make a point. if he is convicting us of righteousness.then that means we have done wrong===which amounts to sin .

Hebrews 12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
your words helped drive my point home. have a good evening

Only ONE WAY out of sin? To overcome it by the Spirit of Grace! All else is just religion going around the same religious mountain, again and again! Awake to righteousness and sin not! One who walks in the Spirit and Gods righteousness will act more Godly on a bad day, Than all you who seem so worried about other peoples sin! You should know sin has no power over a "believer" who walks in the light of Christ!

We who are righteous, know that Christ has set us free from sin. Those who are in darkness, speak of the darkness that holds them!

Blind men trying to lead other blind men?

 

[ezra]

Only ONE WAY out of sin? To overcome it by the Spirit of Grace! All else is just religion going around the same religious mountain, again and again! Awake to righteousness and sin not! One who walks in the Spirit and Gods righteousness will act more Godly on a bad day, Than all you who seem so worried about other peoples sin! You should know sin has no power over a "believer" who walks in the light of Christ!

We who are righteous, know that Christ has set us free from sin. Those who are in darkness, speak of the darkness that holds them! lets see if we walk in the spirit we what???????? i never said Christ has not set us free from SIN. THE OLD NATURE IS THERE. you confessed you was being convicted ..had you been walking in the Spirit there would been no need of conviction . we all fail and fall short of his Glory and expectation ..that does not make us wicked. it just means we can and will sin. thus the holy spirit convicts us. to get back on the path.

, know that Christ has set us free from sin. Those who are in darkness, speak of the darkness that holds them

Blind men trying to lead other blind men?

ever get a bad thought? allow the Bird to build its nest in a area it shouldn't? of course we all have thats where the Spirit convicts us. thanks for the debate you helped make it interesting

 

[Mitspa]

ever get a bad thought? allow the Bird to build its nest in a area it shouldn't? of course we all have thats where the Spirit convicts us. thanks for the debate you helped make it interesting

Well glad you have enjoyed it?

I will keep posting the truth as long as God allows? I know you have had to rethink some of your veiws, I hope you will Trust in Gods strength and not mans weaknesses? The Lord has commanded us as shepherds to feed His sheep, not beat His sheep! I warn any man who assumes to care for His flock, be weary of your doctrines, and take head how you treat His little ones!

 

[ezra]

I warn any man who assumes to care for His flock, be weary of your doctrines, and take head how you treat His little ones!

well that sure is christian love. did holy spirit tell you to say that?????? the only thing i will rethink is your last remarks . i kept it to a adult level thanks for the pre k reply your doctrine is wrong and mine is right *

 

[Deborah13]

Well glad you have enjoyed it?

I will keep posting the truth as long as God allows? I know you have had to rethink some of your veiws, I hope you will Trust in Gods strength and not mans weaknesses? The Lord has commanded us as shepherds to feed His sheep, not beat His sheep! I warn any man who assumes to care for His flock, be weary of your doctrines, and take head how you treat His little ones!

This might seem like a silly comparison but please bear with me.

There are good cow dogs and there are good sheep dogs. A cow dog will take on a 2000 # bull with no fear, barking, biting the bulls heals, even swinging off their tails. But a shephard would never use this type of dog.

A sheep dog works quietly, they never bark or bite the sheep. They move them with quiet stares and usually laying down low on the ground. They literally stare them down. They circle quietly around them. The shepard is always quiet too many of them using only whistles to give the dog commands. It's really quite amazing how they work together getting the sheep to respond and into the fold. A shepard and his dog have a very close relationship, they are friends and partners.
It reminds me of Jesus and pastors working together in love to bring the sheep into the fold.

 

[smaller]

Only ONE WAY out of sin? To overcome it by the Spirit of Grace! All else is just religion going around the same religious mountain, again and again! Awake to righteousness and sin not! One who walks in the Spirit and Gods righteousness will act more Godly on a bad day, Than all you who seem so worried about other peoples sin! You should know sin has no power over a "believer" who walks in the light of Christ!

We who are righteous, know that Christ has set us free from sin. Those who are in darkness, speak of the darkness that holds them!

Blind men trying to lead other blind men?

That is utterly ridiculous. If the Spirit or the Word alerts any believer to a 'bad thought,' as ezra 'rightfully' pointed out, that is a LEGITIMATE POINTER. It is even more legitimate to point out that such is from the tempter IN mind.

The Spirit does bring conviction on these types of 'intrusions.' And this would be NO SLUR whatsoever on a believer other than a warning to not be snared or enslaved to such SIN thoughts (stage 1), which progresses to word SIN (stage 2), and eventually to SIN deed (stage 3), and to 'divide' from such things, internally, immediately, knowing the source isn't them.

To say that never happens is in fact a form of imposed blindness to the fact. And the next stage is already in place, stage 2, that of not speaking truthfully about it.

s

 

[Mitspa]

This might seem like a silly comparison but please bear with me.

There are good cow dogs and there are good sheep dogs. A cow dog will take on a 2000 # bull with no fear, barking, biting the bulls heals, even swinging off their tails. But a shephard would never use this type of dog.

A sheep dog works quietly, they never bark or bite the sheep. They move them with quiet stares and usually laying down low on the ground. They literally stare them down. They circle quietly around them. The shepard is always quiet too many of them using only whistles to give the dog commands. It's really quite amazing how they work together getting the sheep to respond and into the fold. A shepard and his dog have a very close relationship, they are friends and partners.
It reminds me of Jesus and pastors working together in love to bring the sheep into the fold.

I learn so much from those who have knowledge of such things! I think I would like to tend a herd of sheep for a while? I think the Lord would speak through to whole process! Might even have time to write some psalms about His goodness?

That reminds me of what is called the "welch revival" The men in that whole country were so touched by the Spirit of God, that they had to retrain all the animals that worked the mines? The mules and donkeys and such had been trained by cursing and the beatings of the men to work. So that when men the mens heart had been touched by Gods love, they could no longer curse and beat them as they had before!

I The same truth in the chrurch? The people of God have been so abused by the so-called leaders, that its hard for them to responds to the true love that Christ has for His children!

But I thank our God, that the true gospel and His Goodness are leading the "church" to repentance! Amen

 

[Deborah13]

Psalm 23

King James Version (KJV)

23 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.

This Psalm is about LIFE right now, everyday.

This is how the Holy Spirit convicts of righteousness, leading us in the paths of righteousness, by beholding Jesus' righteousness, because we can't see and learn from Him in the flesh as the apostles did.

To be convicted of righteousness does not mean that something must be wrong, some sin. No He leads us to do good, to share with those less fortunate, to be uplifting to those suffering, to pray for the sick, and so much more. To love.

When we are convicted of righteousness and remember that God Himself has made us righteous in His own beloved Son, we have no excuse to fail Him. He has shared with us His name and all the power that comes with that name so we have no excuse. And when we miss the mark He lifts us up and washes our feet, He cleanse us from the dust of the earth and gives us the strenght in Him to go on. We have no excuse.

I think it must make Him sad when we are so busy being Marthas that we don't take the time to be Mary's sitting at His feet.
I learned this the hard way, so much sorrow and shame, but God is ALWAYS faithful even when we are not.

 

[Mitspa]

Psalm 23

King James Version (KJV)

23 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.

This Psalm is about LIFE right now, everyday.

This is how the Holy Spirit convicts of righteousness, leading us in the paths of righteousness, by beholding Jesus' righteousness, because we can't see and learn from Him in the flesh as the apostles did.

To be convicted of righteousness does not mean that something must be wrong, some sin. No He leads us to do good, to share with those less fortunate, to be uplifting to those suffering, to pray for the sick, and so much more. To love.

When we are convicted of righteousness and remember that God Himself has made us righteous in His own beloved Son, we have no excuse to fail Him. He has shared with us His name and all the power that comes with that name so we have no excuse. And when we miss the mark He lifts us up and washes our feet, He cleanse us from the dust of the earth and gives us the strenght in Him to go on. We have no excuse.

I think it must make Him sad when we are so busy being Marthas that we don't take the time to be Mary's sitting at His feet.
I learned this the hard way, so much sorrow and shame, but God is ALWAYS faithful even when we are not.

I love this post, you can say what I am trying to say, better than I can say it!

Now lets look at the "spirit that accuses" satan!
The name satan comes from the Hebrew word that means the accuser of Gods people, the word "accuse" is a legal term. As one who brings legal charges according to law.

In the book of Col. we read that Christ nailed the law that was against us, to His Cross. Having disarmed Principalities and powers. the demonic realm!

Now what does all this mean? That satan "the accuser" used the law of moses to condemn and make guilty all men!
But Christ has taken the law away in His own body!

Now think of the false doctrine being taught in most churches? They teach that its the Holy Spirit showing us when we break the law and sin!

HOW UNTRUE AND PERVERTED A DOCTRINE!

NO! its satan that uses to law to make "beleivers" feel sinful and unworthy!

Also satan, comes to steal kill and destroy? How does he do that? first he must make believer feel guilty, then he has complete power over them!

NO! THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES NOT CONVICT A BELIEVER OF SIN, BUT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS!

Deb13 gave an good example! I would add that when the Holy Spirit corrects us, that He will always do it in a way that we change because we are children, united forever, with our God!
He does not witness against the Blood of Jesus!

REPENTANCE means to come to a higher place! sometimes that hurts and sometimes is very pleasing to do it Gods way!

The Lords ways are so much higher than mans ways! Repentance is being brought into theses higher paths of righteousness!

This is the Holy Spirits work, Righteousness!

 

[ezra]

I would add that when the Holy Spirit corrects us,

wait you cant have it both ways either the Holy Spirit corrects-convicts us of sin---or he does not. for some odd reason you seem to think conviction is of the devil..which it is NOT you keep confusing condemnation for conviction.

 

[Deborah13]

wait you cant have it both ways either the Holy Spirit corrects-convicts us of sin---or he does not. for some odd reason you seem to think conviction is of the devil..which it is NOT you keep confusing condemnation for conviction.

This from the Blue Letter Bible info site. It explains the problem within the use of the word reprove being used as to a negative connotation.

When we keep this distinction well in mind, what a light does it throw on a multitude of passages in the N. T.; and how much deeper a meaning does it give them. Thus our Lord could demand, “Which of you convinceth (ἐλέγχει) Me of sin?” (John 8:46). Many ‘rebuked’ Him; many laid sin to his charge (Matt. 9:3; John 9:16); but none brought sin home to his conscience. Other passages also will gain from realizing the fulness of the meaning of ἐλέγχειν, as John 3:20; 8:9; 1 Cor. 14:24, 25; Heb. 7:5; but above all, the great passage, John 16:8; “Whet He [the Comforter] is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:” for so we have rendered the words, following in our ‘reprove’ the Latin ‘arguet;’ although few, I think, that have in any degree sought to sound the depth of our Lord’s words, but will admit that ‘convince,’ which unfortunately our Translators have relegated to the margin, or ‘convict,’ would have been the preferable rendering, giving a depth and fulness of meaning to this work of the Holy Ghost, which ‘reprove’ in some part fails to express.1 “He who shall come in my room, shall so bring home to the world its own ‘sin,’ my perfect ‘righteousness,’ God’s coming ‘judgment,’ shall so ‘convince’ the world of these, that it shall be obliged itself to acknowledge them; and in this acknowledgment may find, shall be in the right way to find, its own blessedness and salvation.” See more on ἐλέγχειν in Pott’s Wurzel-Wörterbuch, vol. iii. p. 720.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/trench/section.cfm?sectionID=4&lexicon=true&strongs=G1651
this link will take you to the full discussion of this Greek word and it's translation. It should be quite helpful, I would think.

 

[Mitspa]

wait you cant have it both ways either the Holy Spirit corrects-convicts us of sin---or he does not. for some odd reason you seem to think conviction is of the devil..which it is NOT you keep confusing condemnation for conviction.

Do you understand doing things because its right? because you love God? does fear and guilt motivate you to serve God?

I tell you a righteous man will serve God because of Gods mercy!

A righteous man will accidently do more good than a whole congregation of guilty "christians"

Do you know why the law is the strength of sin?
Do know why the grace of God gives us power over sin?

 

[Deborah13]

What good would it do to just reprove one must be convinced for anything to change.

Jews and Muslims are convinced of sin. But....

Convinced of the righteousness of Christ? No

the Holy Spirit convinces us of the righteousness of Christ. He has a righteous standing with God. If we are not convinced of this we can not believe He can be our Savior before God. We cannot be justified by what He did at the cross. And we cannot believe that we are the righteousness of God, in Christ because He is our righteousness. As we behold His righteousness we are restored, renewed, builtup, and instructed in the ways of righteousness.

Frankly if we believe the Word that says that God wrote His laws on our hearts and on our minds why would the Holy Spirit have to convince us of such? We know. Sin is not foreign to us but righteousness of God is, each of us to different measures.

 

[Yah1]

He has a righteous standing with God. If we are not convinced of this we can not believe He can be our Savior before God. We cannot be justified by what He did at the cross. And we cannot believe that we are the righteousness of God, in Christ because He is our righteousness. As we behold His righteousness we are restored, renewed, builtup, and instructed in the ways of righteousness.

You have to come to Faith first in order to see the living God, they call him living because he lives inside of YOU. Deborah is correct here. Noticed that she said restored, renewed, builtup. She's talking about on the INSIDE of you. I also sometimes like to use the word strengthen.