HOLY SPIRIT convicts of what?

[Mitspa]

Galatians 6:1
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted

Restoration IMHO tells me he was saved and has fallen away.

Philippians 1:6
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

If the Holy Spirit begins working in folks of the world by the John passage, why would he stop working in us? Would the Holy Ghost not convict me of sin. The Holy spirit can work internally or externally to bring about the completetion of salvation in my life.


I Corinthians 5:5
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus
eddif

lets start here with the fact that some believers, although they have the Spirit they walk in the flesh. A "spiritual" person is one who walks in the spirit, and they alone are able to correct those who walk in the flesh. The "restoration" is to bring them back into the truth of who they are in the spirit. Now this is not a conviction of the Holy Spirit upon that person, but it will be the Holy Spirit that restores them unto the truth of who they are in Christ. "conviction of righteosuness".

Also eddif you must know that I have quoted many scriptures on this thread that state as clear as day that when the Holy Spirit is mentioned "there sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more" is that which the Holy Spirit testifies to.

So I find this random use of scripture mixed with your own opinion to have very little impact against such clear statements of scripture as I have posted in making my points. I hope you would at least look over some of those post and adress the clear and evident scriptures before you ask me to debate those things that seem to be your opinion.

Lets look at the clear scriptures and see if those can be challenged? If one does not heed what is clear, there is little use for me to attempt to debate what is less clear with such a person. I do not enjoy debate for debate sake, but I will adress that which seems to come from an honest place. Your last post seems to be just a handful of mixed doctrine thrown against the wall, to see if anything will stick?

So I would ask you to start at my first post on this thread, do you not see three different works of "conviction" by the Holy Spirit upon THREE DIFFERENT GROUPS? Then maybe we could move forward into more CLEAR AND EVIDENT scripture?

 

[eddif]

So I would ask you to start at my first post on this thread, do you not see three different works of "conviction" Spirit upon THREE DIFFERENT GROUPS? Then maybe we could move forward into more CLEAR AND EVIDENT scripture?

Oh well I did start with your Original Post IMHO. The Scripture sure seems to say the World is worked with in three ways. These three ways or areas I spent time on. If you reject that then I guess I will be silent. I hear you.

Poor old Paul must have been not understanding when he explained with the mind he served Jesus, but the flesh had another idea.

Sorry two things can not happen at the same time in certain worlds.

eddif

 

[Mitspa]

Oh well I did start with your Original Post IMHO. The Scripture sure seems to say the World is worked with in three ways. These three ways or areas I spent time on. If you reject that then I guess I will be silent. I hear you.

Poor old Paul must have been not understanding when he explained with the mind he served Jesus, but the flesh had another idea.

Sorry two things can not happen at the same time in certain worlds.

eddif

my friend there are three different groups, the world who does not believe, YOU "as believers" because I go to the Father. And ruler of this world "satan"

So we have nonbelievers convicted of sin.
We have believers convicted of righteousness.
We have satan convicted of judgement.

This is why he struggles so hard to keep the Holy Spirit out of the Chruch.

Also Paul goes on to say many things beyond Rom. Chapter 7. we have chapter 8 that says that the law of the Spirit has set us free from the LAW OF SIN and death.

So again I wonder if you are looking for truth and an honest discussion of this issue or if I have offended some of your religious traditions and you are just trying to confuse what is very clear in scripture?

This is why I ask that we start at the point of this thread, to establish what is clearand find some common ground. This seems reasonable and honest to me? I admit that not everything is clear to me concerning how God corrects His people, but if we cannot agree on that which is evident? I doubt we will be able to search out some of the other things that are not so clear.

 

[Mitspa]

I would like to explain a little about what "righteousness" is?

We see in 2 Cor 3 That the ministry of righteousness is the New Convenant and this is a spiritual ministry based upon the Holy Spirit. This ministry of righteousness is described "as beholding Christ" and as we behold Him in the glory of His Righteousness we are changed by the Spirit into His Image.

So basically righteousness is seeing Christ Jesus by faith and walking in the truth of who we are in Him.

So when the Lord said the Holy Spirit would convict the believers of righteousness, because He goes to the Father AND WE "SEE HIM" NO MORE.

David wrote, one thing I have desired of the Lord, That I might dwell in the His House AND BEHOLD the beauty of the Lord.

Remember Mary who sat at His Feet? And the Lord said "ONE THING IS NEEDED" and mary was doing that thing? BEHOLDING THE BEAUTY OF THE LORD!

righteousness is seeing Christ and seeing the truth of who we are in Him.

Why do many "christians" fall into sins of the flesh? Because they do not understand who they are in Christ. The Holy Spirit convicts us of who He is and who we are In Him.

A sinner will always be a slave to the sin that dwells in their flesh. A righteous man will overcome the flesh and walk in the Truth of Who they are In Christ.

 

[ezra]

The Holy Spirit convicts us of who He is and who we are In Him.

convicts ed! when we sin you sin its the spirit is telling us.................. hey thats not right............

 

[Mitspa]

convicts ed! when we sin you sin its the spirit is telling us.................. hey thats not right............

There is a world of difference between convicted of sin and being convicted of righteousness.
We have gone over this point before Ezra!
Seeing the glory of Christ and being conformed to His Image, is much different than being shown the flesh and being subject to its weakness. I hope you can understand that great difference? I do good because I have Gods righteousness, not because I am trying to establish my own or earn something from God.

Who has more power over sin? A sinner who feels guilty and seperated from God by their sin? Or a righteous man who is confident of Gods grace and power over their own flesh?

Just as we love Him because He first loved us. We must receive righteousness to walk in righteousness.
All our victory over every weakness must come from our sure relationship In Christ "righteousness"

For sin will not have dominion over you because you are not under law but under grace. Gods abilty is the ONLY ability any man will ever have over sin.

If one is confident in Gods abilty on their behalf, then and ONLY THEN do they overcome the flesh.
I am not speaking of religious "appearance" our painting the outside of a tomb as the pharisees. I am speaking of "being" a living epistle of Christ. To have the truth in the inward parts
And to live by the truth of Christ in you, the hope of glory!

I do not want to "appear" as anything but I desire to be in truth what the Holy Spirit has come to make me.

Besides that ezra, the scriptures do not agree with these doctrines that many teach. I have proved that point beyond biblical doubt. Now again I say that God corrects His people but He does not testify against the Blood by which we are sanctified forever.

I am willing to have an honest discussion, but I will not even consider that which goes against clear and evident scripture, and against the truth of His Blood.

 

[Mitspa]

Here it is in a nutshell! Why satan is beating the church and will continue to do so?

God has given us the Very Best of heaven, and In Him we are in absolute victory! All we need do is see Him and His glory by faith In His Word.

But what has satan done? he has turn our attention away from the Glory of Christ and got the church to focus upon the weakness of man. Lets not look at who we are in Christ, but lets look at who we are in the flesh, and lets roll around in our shame!

Peter wrote of those who were like swine that had been washed but return to the mudd and their shame.

I am teaching the true gospel "the glory of Christ" but many make the Word of God of no effect by their traditions of man. No where in the New Testament does it say that the Holy Spirit convicts a "believer" in Christ of sin, but as a matter of fact and in clear and evident scripture it says just the contrary!

These are just empty traditions of men, and they are the cause of great harm and defeat in many well-meaning christains lives.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Why do many "christians" fall into sins of the flesh?

I sense you don't believe anyone who sins is a Christian? Please tell me I am mistaken.

Because they do not understand who they are in Christ. The Holy Spirit convicts us of who He is and who we are In Him.

John 16:8 says, "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment. How would you understand an identity as being part of that list of convictions?

A sinner will always be a slave to the sin that dwells in their flesh. A righteous man will overcome the flesh and walk in the Truth of Who they are In Christ.

Not perfectly, in this life, he doesn't.

 

[Mitspa]

I sense you don't believe anyone who sins is a Christian? Please tell me I am mistaken.

John 16:8 says, "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment. How would you understand an identity as being part of that list of convictions?

Not perfectly, in this life, he doesn't.

The scripture speaks of how the Holy Spirit "convicts" three different groups.
1. The world is convicted of sin, because they do not believe
2. The believer of righteousness, because I go to the Father
3. Satan, covicted of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

So again, no where in the New Testament does it say that a "believer" is convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit.

l

 

[Mitspa]

I kinda agree, but we also have a conscience? and most of us have been taught false doctrine, that the Holy Spirit is the one who shows us "believers" our sin! According to scripture He does not remember our sin and convicts us of our "righteous" relationship with God!

Heb 10:15






Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16



This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Heb 10:17


And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.


So do we believe that one moment the Holy Spirit is showing us our sin and the next He is not "remembering them"?

Looks like I should bring forward some of these older post, it seems some have forgotten how clear this issue is?

 

[eddif]

Looks like I should bring forward some of these older post, it seems some have forgotten how clear this issue is?

Joh 16:8

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9

Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10

Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11

Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

the Holy Spirit is convicting 3 different groups 1. the "world" of sin, 2. You "believers" of righteousness 3. satan of "judgement"

Now find me one scripture in All the NEW Testament where the Holy Spirit brings the "believers" sin to remembrance? NO! what you will find is everytime the Holy Spirit and His work is mentioned that it says "there sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more! Check it out!

Nehemiah 8:8
8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

I tried before, but seemed to not make a point. I shut up and the same thing was going on. Nehemiah may not be the best post but it kind of works.

John 16:8
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

eddif understanding
He will reprove the world of sin
He will reprove the world of righteousness
He will reprove the world of judgement

because
John 16:9
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

If the world is reproved of sin they can repent (sinners came to John the Baptist and confessed sin when reproved------But the religious community did not confess sin when reproved). John told the repenters to believe in the one who comes after him. I hope we preach sin that the world might repent and go on to accept Jesus righteousness for the sin they committed.

John 16:10
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

If the world is reproved of righteousness because Jesus took his sacrafice to heaven. Then we are empowered from heaven (by the power of Jesus seated on the right hand of God interceeding and after sending the Holy Spirit to give us power) to use the foolishness of preaching so that the world can accept Jesus and be saved, and empowered to become sons of God themselves.

John 16:11
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

If the world is reproved of judgement of satan, then the world understands satan is going to hell and has no more dominion over those who repent and accept Jesus. Then they know that God can through judgement reckon a person to be declared saved and can can ask for the Holy Spirit to empower them to preach the gospel to others bound in the world. Jesus came to save the world not condemn.

I am for a positive use of John 16:8 I also believe: go into the world and preach the good news of being changed from a sinner to a saved individual. Not everyone will be saved. I believe in a hell.


End of eddif
+++++++++++++++++++++
Mitspa you seem to say: (Tell me if I am wrong)
John 16:8
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

He will reprove the world of sin
He will reprove christians of righteousness
He will reprove satan of judgement

I just do not understand how you get to this understanding.

I will not even go on to give what I think is your understanding past this point, but I wish you would tell the positive way your belief will help the world.

The jerk from Mississippi (although a Jesus freak jerk--by grace lol).
eddif

 

[Mitspa]

Nehemiah 8:8
8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

I tried before, but seemed to not make a point. I shut up and the same thing was going on. Nehemiah may not be the best post but it kind of works.

John 16:8
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

eddif understanding
He will reprove the world of sin
He will reprove the world of righteousness
He will reprove the world of judgement

because
John 16:9
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

If the world is reproved of sin they can repent (sinners came to John the Baptist and confessed sin when reproved------But the religious community did not confess sin when reproved). John told the repenters to believe in the one who comes after him. I hope we preach sin that the world might repent and go on to accept Jesus righteousness for the sin they committed.

John 16:10
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

If the world is reproved of righteousness because Jesus took his sacrafice to heaven. Then we are empowered from heaven (by the power of Jesus seated on the right hand of God interceeding and after sending the Holy Spirit to give us power) to use the foolishness of preaching so that the world can accept Jesus and be saved, and empowered to become sons of God themselves.

John 16:11
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

If the world is reproved of judgement of satan, then the world understands satan is going to hell and has no more dominion over those who repent and accept Jesus. Then they know that God can through judgement reckon a person to be declared saved and can can ask for the Holy Spirit to empower them to preach the gospel to others bound in the world. Jesus came to save the world not condemn.

I am for a positive use of John 16:8 I also believe: go into the world and preach the good news of being changed from a sinner to a saved individual. Not everyone will be saved. I believe in a hell.


End of eddif
+++++++++++++++++++++
Mitspa you seem to say: (Tell me if I am wrong)
John 16:8
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

He will reprove the world of sin
He will reprove christians of righteousness
He will reprove satan of judgement

I just do not understand how you get to this understanding.

I will not even go on to give what I think is your understanding past this point, but I wish you would tell the positive way your belief will help the world.

The jerk from Mississippi (although a Jesus freak jerk--by grace lol).
eddif

I believe it is clear that these scriptures represent three different groups and three different works of the Holy Spirit for each group descibed. More than that this understanding conforms to the truth of all that Paul taught and is shown throughtout the epistles. The gospel is clear on these issues and I have made many points on this thread that prove the work of the Holy Spirit as shown in scripture. I dont have much time now to give a full answer (on dinner break) but I will add to my response later. I would also like to add that I learned this truth from the greatest bible teachers of our age, I do not stand alone in my understanding, but would if I needed to because the truth of what I am teaching is so clear abd sure that I would never be moved from this postion unless great evidence of scripture was presented to me.

 

[ezra]

I do not stand alone in my understanding,

and neither do those who believe in the spirit convicts of sin . it may be truth to you but not to everybody . i am not knocking you for your belief even though i do disagree . just don,t knock those of us who believe contrary to your way. yes we been down this road before

 

[Mitspa]

To my friends ezra and eddif, I believe this issue is as important as any issue in the New Testament! For we come to know Christ and abide in Him by the Holy Spirit, without the Holy Spirit all of us are lost. The scriptures are clear there are two spirits at work in this world? One is called the Holy Spirit,
here is some of His titles:
Spirit of Grace
The Comfoter
Advocate "parakletos" Thayer one who pleads anothers cause before the judge, councsl for the defense, legal assistant, intercessor
helper etc..
Spirit of Truth.

Now here is the titles of the other spirit? satan "the accuser"
adversary
The one who brings legal accusation.

If we look no further than just the names of the spirits, we would learn much about the truth of this issue!
I think it is the utmost importance to know the Work of the Holy Spirit, ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, NOT TRADITIONS OF MEN.

Now I like both you guys, but I like the truth more.
I invite an honest look into the scriptures on this issue, because they prove my position beyond doubt.

 

[eddif]

I Corinthians 14:29-33

eddif

 

[Mitspa]

I Corinthians 14:29-33

eddif

Not sure have judging prophecy in the order of the church relates to this issue? I had hoped that we might have an honest discussion of this very important issue, but it seems that the issue is so clear that no real debate can be offered against the position I have taken?

 

[Deborah13]

I heard the testimony of a man who quit smoking and this is how he did it.
He kept saying every time he'd light up. "I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus." He'd say with every puff he took. Pretty soon when he'd say it he would just put it out and then he just quit.
Reminding himself of the gift of righteousness he had been given and what that meant gave him strength, it empowered him to fight a strong addiction.

 

[ezra]

Now here is the titles of the other spirit? satan "the accuser"
adversary
The one who brings legal accusation.

the holy spirit is not accusing us. HE has told us we sinned. get back on track

 

[eddif]

I am going to try and use the last few posts.

This thread is a meeting. Every time we meet there should be a word for someone. Given the number of hits on this thread there are probably many that could learn. Each of us should be led by Holy Spirit to speak.

John 16: 8-11 is the text chosen for us. IMHO our speakings should be in alignment with the text. Other scripture can be added, but just church doctrine, men's doctrine, even eddif doctrine should not rule.

Not sure have judging prophecy in the order of the church relates to this issue? I had hoped that we might have an honest discussion of this very important issue, but it seems that the issue is so clear that no real debate can be offered against the position I have taken?

We have looked at the text and at times slaughtered it. To me the text absolutely says Holy Spirit will direct the world to sin discussion, righteousness discussion, and judgement of satan discussion.

I heard the testimony of a man who quit smoking and this is how he did it.
He kept saying every time he'd light up. "I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus." He'd say with every puff he took. Pretty soon when he'd say it he would just put it out and then he just quit.
Reminding himself of the gift of righteousness he had been given and what that meant gave him strength, it empowered him to fight a strong addiction.

Ok . Is the smoker in charge of his life or is Holy Spirit the one that convicted the man of sin against his body, how righteousness in Christ might be used to change his life, how satan has been judged by God and he can overcome through Jesus. This discussion agrees with the text IMHO.

Or​

We can find a way to make the man in charge of all the decisions so he can get the credit. With the man getting the credit we can still use the text, but it will be a little warped.​

the holy spirit is not accusing us. HE has told us we sinned. get back on track

To me this comment says the smoker (evidently a christian) is just flat in sin. Holy Spirit convicts him of sin, takes his mind to righteousness, and victory over satan and his promotion of smoke lust is overcome. Holy Spirit in charge and giving glory to Jesus.
++++++++++​

Right now there are four (?) of us speaking. Holy Spirit would wish for order, change, and knowledge to come forth. We should all know we are nothing without the fullness of God at work: Scripture, creation, desire of the Father, work of the Son, gifts of Holy Spirit etc.​

eddif​

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

The scripture speaks of how the Holy Spirit "convicts" three different groups.
1. The world is convicted of sin, because they do not believe
2. The believer of righteousness, because I go to the Father
3. Satan, covicted of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

So again, no where in the New Testament does it say that a "believer" is convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit.

One, you didn't answer my question. Two, if the whole world is convicted, then it stands to reason the believer is convicted. Your reasoning is faulty.