Homosexuality and Obesity?

[bibleberean]

No one was accountable to law before the bible?

Is that why God destroyed the world by water because sin was not present and there was no accountablility for sin?

Genesis 6:5-7 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

I think not.

Fornication is sin...

Fornication

porneia {por-ni'-ah}


1) illicit sexual intercourse

a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.

b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18

c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

2) metaph. the worship of idols

a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

No one is going to restrict the bible for a Christian. This is a Christian forum and non Christians do not make the rules here.

We can use Leviticus and I don't care if apostate Jews don't follow their own laws. That's their problem.


1 Thessalonians 4:2-5 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

This is "vague"?

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Explain this verse?

Romans 5:13 NIV.
For before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.

Anyone?

Avoiding something? Scared maybe?

I've already given you my thoughts on that text, Windozer. Unfortunately, those thoughts were "I don't know what the author of that scripture is getting at." Since no more thoughts are forthcoming you might perhaps put us out of our misery and tell us.

 

[SputnikBoy]

No one was accountable to law before the bible?

'No one was accountable to law before the Bible' was not the question asked by Windozer, BB. The question was, 'What does Romans 5:13 mean?

Is that why God destroyed the world by water because sin was not present and there was no accountablility for sin?

That's right, I agree. Of course people must have been accountable for their sinful actions. So, what does Romans 5:13 mean?

Genesis 6:5-7 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

I think not.

Fornication is sin...

Here we go again ...

Fornication

porneia {por-ni'-ah}


1) illicit sexual intercourse

a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.

b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18

c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

2) metaph. the worship of idols

a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

No one is going to restrict the bible for a Christian. This is a Christian forum and non Christians do not make the rules here.

We can use Leviticus and I don't care if apostate Jews don't follow their own laws. That's their problem.

1 Thessalonians 4:2-5 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

This is "vague"?

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of SIN ...not specifically because of homosexuality. The very fact that you and others, BB, misconstrue this text so consistently speaks volumes about your inner motives in regard to this issue. Again, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of SIN!

 

[bibleberean]

I wasn't responding to a question by windozer. And my motives are very clear...it isn't my motives that are hidden :

I was responding to this.

Still waiting on bible quotes that actually refer to homosexuality no Leviticus please since no one, even the most orthodox of Jews, can claim to follow half of Leviticus.

Also no vague quotes about "unnatural acts" or "sexual perversion" those terms could mean a hundred differetn things

Why doesn't Windozer tell us what Romans 5;13 means? ;-)

I always get a kick out of people who demand an answer to their questions. :

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

No doubt that the perverts of Sodom practiced other sins. The sin they loved the most was engaging in same sex.

That is what Sodom is known for...

1 Kings 14:24 And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

1 Kings 15:12 And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

1 Kings 22:46 And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.

2 Kings 23:7 And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.

Deuteronomy 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

I really don't see any of this as "vague"

 

[bibleberean]

This whole thread is a smokescreen to try and justify perversion.

You got that right! Those who are in denial of what this sin is and what an abomination this type of sin is. There is brotherly love and there are perverted affections. Know the difference and get it straight already!

I wonder why this thread wasn't locked a long time ago.
It is really getting old how these advocates of sexual sin insist on justifying the abomination. :evil:

Isaiah 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

:


.

I couldn't agree more...

 

[Windozer]

Why doesn't Windozer tell us what Romans 5;13 means?

Simply because I am seeking understanding of others here, as well as conversation about this issue. I am not here to impose my views on others. I do not need to do that. My calling is not to go around pointing out others sin, and/or which sin is the worst. I don't get into that kind of thing.

And I don't put my beliefs up for debate.

You are one of the most outspoken people on this issue in this thread, so I am asking you to walk through some scripture with me and lets see what the Bible has to say about all of this?

As for your statement that quote: No one was accountable to law before the bible goes.

I question that... as the Bible could not have been completed before the death of Jesus. And people were put to death etc. in accordance with the law long before that. In fact people began to be held accountable to the law after the law of Moses was introduced.

I am more interested in looking at the But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.part of the verse and following that thought through scripture.

Care to join in?

PS.

This whole thread is a smokescreen to try and justify perversion.

I am not attempting to justify anything here. Justification belongs to the Lord. I am attempting to poke some holes in your smoke screen.

 

[Gods-Justice]

No doubt that the perverts of Sodom practiced other sins. The sin they loved the most was engaging in same sex.

That is what Sodom is known for...

Have you ever in your whole life even one time lusted in a manner that is not Biblical?

If so,

Keep silent on these issues.

Thank you.

James 4:11

Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.

 

[Gods-Justice]

I think not.

Fornication is sin...

Fornication

porneia {por-ni'-ah}


1) illicit sexual intercourse

a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.

b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18

c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

2) metaph. the worship of idols

a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

Brother BB,

If you have ever been guilty of fornication I hope you realize the dire implications of putting yourself in the Judgement seat of Christ!

Luke 6:41

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

I am not sure if you have been exposed to this basic doctrine but am confused on your motives?

I think you know better. Just think back to the time of your sin to keep the adversary "Satan" from using you as a tool of accusation!

Satan means "adversary" and you do his work by condeming others or disputing the True teachings of the Bible.

 

[Windozer]

Explain this verse?

Romans 5:13 NIV.
For before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.

Anyone?

Avoiding something? Scared maybe?

I've already given you my thoughts on that text, Windozer. Unfortunately, those thoughts were "I don't know what the author of that scripture is getting at." Since no more thoughts are forthcoming you might perhaps put us out of our misery and tell us.

SputnikBoy,

Your honest reply was appreciated. That kind of honesty is always refreshing. I am more interested in getting others opinions and working with that as opposed to my opinions.

 

[SputnikBoy]

No doubt that the perverts of Sodom practiced other sins. The sin they loved the most was engaging in same sex.

Do you not see what you're doing here, BB? You're first referring to the inhabitants of Sodom as 'perverts' (as in homosexuality) - a slant that you've applied to the inhabitants all by yourself - and then you go on to say that these 'perverts' (your words) NO DOUBT practiced OTHER sins (as well). You're leading the witness, as they might say in court.

The FACTS are that they practiced SIN, period!

That is what Sodom is known for...

By modern-day Christianity ...yes. But it's a complete lie ...a fabrication intended for homosexuals specifically as opposed to 'sinners' generally. And, may I point out to you that 'lying lips' are ALSO an abomination to God (Proverbs 12:22)?

1 Kings 14:24 And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

And what does this mean, BB?

1 Kings 15:12 And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

Again, what does this mean?

1 Kings 22:46 And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.

Well ...?

2 Kings 23:7 And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.

Is this ANYTHING AT ALL to do with homosexuality?

Deuteronomy 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.

I looked up sodomite in the Hebrew Lexicon. It says: a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (techn) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry:- sodomite, unclean. Is this REALLY referring to today's version of homosexuality or are you simply tring to make the pieces fit as best you can?

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

This (death) is SO extreme a penalty that I can't come to grips with the scripture at all. I mean ...really! If we're to use this scripture as a guide then we need to round up every homosexual we know and put them to death. We either abide by that text or we don't!

I really don't see any of this as "vague"

You're right! You've made a believer out of me. Let us start right now and round up all homosexuals, all those who eat pork, or hamburgers, all who tell lies, etc. and put them to death immediately! We will forthwith not tolerate abominations of ANY kind!

Oh dear ...I wonder how many of us righteous ones will be left?

 

[James1990]

Homosexuality Merriam Webster

1 : the quality or state of being homosexual
2 : erotic activity with another of the same sex

Dictionary Definitions?
Damn, you're an easy one.

Go look up "heterosexual" too, you'll find exactly the same thing too.
seems love is non existant.

Now, upon looking up "love" in wiktionary....

Noun
love (uncountable and countable; plural loves)

1.)(uncountable) An intense feeling of affection towards another.
2.)(uncountable) An initimate sexual interest or fascination towards something or someone.
3.)(uncountable) Romantic feelings.
4.)(uncountable) An underlying sense of unity or sameness.
5.)(countable) The subject of one's romantic interest.
6.)(countable) A darling or sweetheart.
7.)(colloquial) A term of address, regardless of feelings.
Hello love, how can I help you?
8.)(in tennis) Zero. (from French l'oeuf - the egg, referring to the shape of zero)
9.)One's desire that another be happy.
10.)(spiritual) The will to extend one's self for the purpose of nurturing one's own or another's spiritual growth. M Scott Peck.

"Another"
Pronoun or Adjective
1.) One more, in addition to a former number; a second or additional one, similar in likeness or in effect.
2.) Not the same; different.
3.) Any or some; any different person, indefinitely; any one else; some one else.

Check and Mate.
Please, i really hate dictionary definitions, too logical - too easy.

Now, please stop acting like someone my age would, and don't be so ignorant to the fact that,
Love is universal.

I've seriously given up the fact that homosexual fornication is a sin,
no one is debating that. We know it is a sin. Do not say that anyone is saying it isn't.

Please, stop being so ignorant and open your eyes?
James

 

[bibleberean]

Homosexuality is a sin. I am glad we agree. :D

Sex outside of marriage is a sin too. I believe I posted this scripture earlier...

Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Two men cannot have their unnatural sex acts sanctified through marriage.

Romans 1:26-27 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

"Vile affections" that is what God through the apostle Paul calls homosexuality.

"Against nature"

If there are those who are offended by this then take it up with God and His apostle Paul. :D

I have never promoted sex outside of marriage in this forum...

What's up with all the fuss? ;-)

 

[Windozer]

What's up with all the fuss?

Part of the fuss is over who has been doing the judging here.

Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Do you promise us that God will be the judge and not you? :roll:

Also part of the fuss is over your in ability to grasp what Jesus did with the law.

Romans 2:23 NIV
You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?

Romans 3:20 NIV
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Romans 3:21 NIV
[ Righteousness Through Faith ] But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

Romans 4:15 NIV
because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Romans 3:28 NIV
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.

So we are not justified by observing the law, and if you don' like that take it up with apostle Paul.

This whole thread is a smokescreen to try and justify perversion.

 

[bibleberean]

We are not under the law. I agree... :D

We can still preach against sin...

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Acts 15:19-21 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Preaching against the vile sin of homosexuality is not judgement.

1 Corinthians 10:8-11 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Yep. I dont see what all the fuss is about.

People before the law of Moses were under the law of conscience.

As the flood and the destruciton of Sodom and Gommorah prove God judged sin before the law of Moses.

Jude 1:3-4 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I understand that the church is not under the law of Moses.

The church is still not only to preach against the sin of fornication but to flee it.

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

God still hates fornication and condemns homsexuality...

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;...

...Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

The bible coudn't be clearer...

Suffering false teachers and false prophets to defend homosexuality is not a practice I want to "suffer" (tolerate).

 

[Windozer]

People before the law of Moses were under the law of conscience.

How can that be? when there is no law there is no transgression.

Romans 4:15 NIV
because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

If there is no transgression how in the world can they be conscience of it? :roll:

Preaching against the vile sin of homosexuality is not judgement.

Gosh sure could of fooled me. Tell that to the one you are preaching to. I am sure he will be happy to agree with you... :roll:

The vile sin of homosexuality is no more vile than any other sin.

 

[bibleberean]

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

My suggestion...

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


Well, if all sin is the same then I guess with that sorry logic child molesting is no worse or vile than eating too much turkey on thanksgiving... :o

 

[NRoof]

Well, if all sin is the same then I guess with that sorry logic child molesting is no worse or vile than eating too much turkey on thanksgiving... :o

I'm not sure eating too much at thanksgiving is actually a sin so I would like to alter your analogy a bit if I may.

"Well, if all sin is the same then I guess with that sorry logic child molesting is no worse or vile" then telling a white lie to protect someones feeling.

In the eyes of man there is a ton of difference. In the eyes of God there is no difference. All sin, whether we consider it large or small, leads to death. Again we have to look at sin through Gods eyes and all sin is an abomination to him and he can have no part of it.

 

[peace4all]

If i were to believe in christianity and such, I woudl then have to believe that All sin, is equal.
Why?

Al sin, no matter how big or how small, is pushign me away from heaven/jesus. That is the one goal of christians correct? to walk in the path of jesus , so you can enter heaven. If it pushes you away, then it is a sin.


it can even be mathematic.


lets give the sin of gluttony 1 step, the sin of adultery 3 steps, and the sin of murder 10 steps.

3 men stand at the gates of heaven, and all 3 have commited a sin. The first is a glutton, the second an adulterer, and the 3rd murdered someone. each person then takes their specific number of steps away from heaven, because, apparently some sins are worse than others.

Now, jesus comes along, and asks the glutton if he repents for his sins. He repents, and is moved into heaven, 1 space

jesus asks the adluterer if he repents for his sins. He also repents, and by doing the EXACT same action, is moved forward 3 steps and into heaven

jesus then asks the murderer if he repents for his sins. He too repents, and again, by doing the EXACT same action as the gluttoner (is this a word>), and adulterer, he is move up 10 steps and into heaven.

all 3 of them, by doing the same action, are allowed into heaven, although Diffrent actions seperated them from heaven.

 

[bibleberean]

All sin is equal?

Why did Jesus say this?

John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Murder is no worse than stealing a quarter?

Hmmmm? :o

 

[stovebolts]

Not all sin leads to death and death, is not always a bad thing...

1 John 5:12-15 He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God. And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us: And if we know that he hears us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we desired of him.

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

For it is better to fall, than to be crushed... Sometimes, falling and dieing, brings about life...

John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone: but if it dies, it brings forth much fruit.

Luke 20:18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.