Dave wrote:
Discriminating against someone because they are fat is like saying that they cannot do the job.
Ahimsa wrote:
So its okay to discriminate against a homosexual? Is who they come home to at night going to get in the way of them doing their job?
I was merely pointing out that your comparison was irrelevant. Most cases of discrimination against overweight people claim that they are unable to do the job, whether or not that is true or false in any or all cases was not my point.
Dave wrote:
On the other hand with homosexuality there are people who believe that it is natural, normal and healthy. They cannot understand where things went wrong when they are completely miserable and feel trapped. No matter what they try to do, they cannot get away from it. When they walk into a church completely broken, dieing of aids, they are there because all the activists who promote homosexuality have no answers for them.
Ahimsa wrote:
Again, you show your conintued prejudices. You don't think the law should protect homosexuals from discrmination, but you think that its wrong to discriminate against people for other lifestyle choices. Secondly, all homosexuals are not unhappy. You paint this image like every gay person is out there dying of aids and wondering how where their lives went wrong. Its simply not true. Many homosexuals lead happy, healhty lives. This is just another ploy to make it look like homosexuality dooms all involved into a lifetime of misery.
I think that law should protect everyone against discrimination, and it already does. All sin leads to destruction. My motives are love, what are yours?
And no BB, homosexuality is not all about sex. Would you consider your relationship with your wife to be "all about sex"? A homosexual relationship involves multiple levels of intimacy, including emotional, spiritual, mental and sexual.
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"Commitment" in Male Homosexual Couples
Even in those homosexual relationships in which the partners consider themselves to be in a committed relationship, the meaning of "committed" or "monogamous" typically means something radically different than in heterosexual marriage.
· A Canadian study of homosexual men who had been in committed relationships lasting longer than one year found that only 25 percent of those interviewed reported being monogamous." According to study author Barry Adam, "Gay culture allows men to explore different...forms of relationships besides the monogamy coveted by heterosexuals."[16]
· The Handbook of Family Diversity reported a study in which "many self-described 'monogamous' couples reported an average of three to five partners in the past year. Blasband and Peplau (1985) observed a similar pattern."[17]
· In The Male Couple, authors David P. McWhirter and Andrew M. Mattison reported that, in a study of 156 males in homosexual relationships lasting from one to thirty-seven years:
Only seven couples have a totally exclusive sexual relationship, and these men all have been together for less than five years. Stated another way, all couples with a relationship lasting more than five years have incorporated some provision for outside sexual activity in their relationships.[18]
According to McWhirter and Mattison, most homosexual men understood sexual relations outside the relationship to be the norm and viewed adopting monogamous standards as an act of oppression.
In their Journal of Sex Research study of the sexual practices of older homosexual men, Paul Van de Ven et al. found that only 2.7 percent of older homosexuals had only one sexual partner in their lifetime.[19]
Brad Hayton provides insight into the attitudes of many homosexuals towards commitment and marriage:
Homosexuals...are taught by example and belief that marital relationships are transitory and mostly sexual in nature. Sexual relationships are primarily for pleasure rather than procreation. And they are taught that monogamy in a marriage is not the norm [and] should be discouraged if one wants a good "marital" relationship.[20]
While the rate of fidelity within marriage cited by these studies remains far from ideal, there is a significant difference between the negligible lifetime fidelity rate cited for homosexuals and the 75 to 90 percent cited for married couples. This indicates that even "committed" homosexual relationships display a fundamental incapacity for the faithfulness and commitment that is axiomatic to the institution of marriage.
...
· Homosexual writer and activist Michelangelo Signorile speaks approvingly of those who advocate replacing monogamy with sexually "open" relationships:
For these men the term "monogamy" simply doesn't necessarily mean sexual exclusivity....The term "open relationship" has for a great many gay men come to have one specific definition: A relationship in which the partners have sex on the outside often, put away their resentment and jealousy, and discuss their outside sex with each other, or share sex partners.[54]
· The views of Signorile and Ettelbrick regarding marriage are widespread in the homosexual community. According to the Mendola Report, a mere 26 percent of homosexuals believe that commitment is most important in a marriage relationship.[55]
Former homosexual William Aaron explains why even homosexuals involved in "committed" relationships do not practice monogamy:
In the gay life, fidelity is almost impossible. Since part of the compulsion of homosexuality seems to be a need on the part of the homophile to "absorb" masculinity from his sexual partners, he must be constantly on the lookout for [new partners]. Consequently the most successful homophile "marriages" are those where there is an arrangement between the two to have affairs on the side while maintaining the semblance of permanence in their living arrangement.[56]
The evidence is overwhelming that homosexual and lesbian "committed" relationships are not the equivalent of marriage. In addition, there is little evidence that homosexuals and lesbians truly desire to commit themselves to the kind of monogamous relationships as signified by marriage. What remains, then, is the disturbing possibility that behind the demands for "gay marriage" lurks an agenda of undermining the very nature of the institution of marriage.
Timothy J. Dailey, Ph.D., is senior fellow in the Center for Marriage and Family Studies at the Family Research Council. Dr. Dailey and Peter Sprigg recently co-authored Getting It Straight: What the Research Says About Homosexuality.
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?I=IS04C02&v=PRINT
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Psycho-sociological studies and gay/lesbian self-admissions both reveal that the two factors most accurately characterizing gay and lesbian lifestyles are sexual promiscuity and relational instability. We'll explore these factors first through a brief review of the scientific literature, beginning with findings about gay male relational patterns.
...
"Reparative therapist" Joseph Nicolosi writes:
The fact is, a committed, monogamous gay relationship is very rare. Sometimes good friends make a commitment to share a home and care for and support each other, but as gay literature itself tells us, these relationships characteristically include an understanding that there will be outside sexual relationships.
In The Male Couple, by David McWhirter and Andrew Mattison, the authors -- a gay couple themselves -- could find no gay relationship in which fidelity was maintained more than five years. In fact, the authors tell us, "the single most important factor that keeps couples together past the ten-year mark is the lack of possessiveness they feel. Many couples learn very early in their relationship that ownership of each other sexually can become the greatest internal threat to their staying together."{126}
Gay and Lesbian Self-Admissions Confirm Science's Findings
If evidence of gay male promiscuity and relational instability is common in the scientific literature, it is also common in self-admissions found in self-avowedly-gay-written publications. Many of the following cites are taken from books about gay and lesbian couples and how they may live together in intact relationships:
In American Couples (1983) -- "A major enlightening report on how Americans live their private lives," according to the Philadelphia Inquirer -- authors Philip Blumstein, Ph.D. and Pepper Schwartz, Ph.D. state:
If a gay man is monogamous, he is such a rare phenomenon, he may have difficulty making himself believed.
[and]
Gay men can make non-monogamy part of everyday life. They have no trouble incorporating casual sex into their relationships. Since their partner is male, they are not called on to honor the female preference for monogamy...
According to David P. McWhirter, M.D., and Andrew M. Mattison, M.S.W., Ph.D., authors of The Male Couple [op. cit.]:
Only seven couples [out of the 156 interviewed] have a totally exclusive sexual relationship, and these men have all been together less than 5 years. Stated in another way, all couples with a relationship lasting more than 5 years have incorporated some provision for outside sexual activity in their relationships. That translates into 5 percent monogamous, 95 percent non-monogamous.{128}
The experts are in agreement that a nonmonogamous arrangement brings with it potential problems. In American Couples, authors Blumstein and Schwartz note:
Sex outside the relationship is potentially very disruptive. It triggers people's insecurity and fears... Because gay men have so much casual sex, it is inevitable that some serious romance will intrude. Two strangers may have sex with every intention of keeping it impersonal, but they may be surprised to discover they like each other.... Although their relationships remain intact, they [the couple] are likely to make love to each other less often.
According to McWhirter and Mattison:
Although most of the [156] couples have some degree of sexual non-exclusivity, they have not reached these arrangements by the same routes, nor has it been easy for many of them. In fact, more than 85 percent of the couples report that their greatest relationship problems center on outside relationships, sexual and non-sexual.{129}
McWhirter and Mattison list "ground rules" for non-monogamous gay relationships compiled from interviews with their study subjects:
There are couples who make nonmonogamy work, but they make it work by spending considerable amounts of time talking about it, considering the type of arrangement that best suits them individually, and that gives them best chance of achieving a loving, sexual, long-term relationship together...
The following list of options for you to consider is a paraphrase of a list of ground rules for sex with others that McWhirter and Mattison gathered from the 156 couples in their study. Please note that this list was compiled prior to the AIDS crisis, and that when sex of any kind is discussed, you should follow safer sex guidelines...:
Sex is allowed at such places as the bath[house]s where having a brief sexual interchange is a mutual and unspoken understanding.
No sex with mutual friends.
Sexual encounters must not interfere with the couple's customary or planned time together.
Sex is permissible only when one partner is out of town.
Sexual encounters are always verbally shared with each other.
Talking about sex is expected, but at least forty-eight hours must pass following the sexual encounter before any discussion is permitted.
Outside sex is allowed only with the advance agreement with one's lover.
No emotional involvement with sex partners is allowed.
Outside sex is allowed, but only in three-ways or groups where both partners are involved.
Outside sex is allowed but it is never to be discussed.
Outside sex is not permitted at home. If it is permitted at home, each must simultaneously be occupied with a sex partner of his own.
Outside sex is permitted at home in the partner's absence, but not in certain places, such as in the couple's bedroom.
Secondary emotional relationships with sexual friends are allowed, but the lover is not to be excluded.{130}
Though self-avowed "gay" authors and marketing experts Hunter Madsen and Marshall Kirk largely blame a "homohating" society for gay men's disfunctional behavior, they do admit: "There is more promiscuity among gays (or at least among gay men) than among straights."{131} Andrew Sullivan agrees, adding this explanation:
Most people are liable to meet emotional rejection by sheer force of circumstance; but for a homosexual, the odds are simply far, far higher. My own experience suggests that somewhere between two and five percent of the population have involuntarily strong emotional and sexual attractions to the same sex. Which means that the pool of possible partners starts at one in twenty to one in fifty. It's no wonder, perhaps, that male homosexual culture has developed an ethic more of anonymous or promiscuous sex than of committed relationships. It's as if the hard lessons of adolescence lower permanently -- by the sheer dint of the odds -- the aspiration for anything more.{132}
Psychiatrist Charles Socarides, however, explains gay male promiscuity as follows:
[A] male homosexual's imperative, but unconscious, needs drive him to seek out sex-in-itself, frequently, and with a good many partners. As studies have shown, being in a gay ["]marriage["] doesn't stem that need. In fact, so-called monogamous gay couples admit they still need to find sex partners outside the dyad. Often, that sex is anonymous sex.{133}
Drug and alcohol abuse is also common in the gay male world:
No matter how you look at the statistics and whatever the causes, drug and alcohol dependency among gay men is a major problem. Most experts suggest that one third or more of all gay men are drug- or alcohol-dependent.{134}
http://www.leaderu.com/marco/marriage/gaymarriage4.html
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Here's another one
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... o0075.html
