Homosexuality and Obesity?

[SputnikBoy]

Sputnikboy,

Are you even a Christian?

I thought I was. Since debating some of these issues with other Christians on the forum, however, I DO wonder about 'the Christianity' of a number of us.

Are you a bible believer?

Yes I am. But, it seems I am one of thousands throughout the world who can't seem to agree with other Christians on ALL issues relating to the scriptures. This is why we have so many Christian denominations. So, you could ask that question of any professed Christian and even ask it of yourself. I don't believe that we should put to death homosexuals as the Bible commands, for instance, but putting to death those who profane the Sabbath and eat shrimp seems to be fair and just. :wink:

Do you put the word of God above the philosophy of man?

The human brain was also given by God. And it was given for us to reason with and with which to make informed decisions based on knowledge of the Word of God in combination with a loving heart. Rhetoric ...I know. But that pretty well says it for me.

I DO question God in a number of areas, by the way. I often don't understand Him and I tell Him so. If that makes me weird, even wicked, then so be it.

You don't have to answer and I won't badger you to do so.

I am only curious.

That's okay.

Thanks,

Robert

 

[Windozer]

I'm not seeing the contradiction. Maybe you could elaberate.

Without love it would mean nothing. Love rejoices in truth. What is the truth that sets us free? The Gospel, all of it.

John 8:36
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

Sorry if are unable able to see the contradiction. I can't help you, as I will not attempt to go beyond what the apostle wrote. I can't put it any clearer than he did.

 

[Windozer]

Grace is not a method to make excuses for sin for ourselves or others.

I did not say that it is. But if you will not accept Grace for the sins that are still in you, then you are cut of from God. Because that is what sin does. It Blocks your relationship with him.

Sin is something we are not supposed to do.

Why is that so? If I do not sin will I be justified?
Sure does not look like it?

Romans 3:24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.

According to what you have said here you are not justified.

Galatians 2:16
know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

Galatians 3:11
Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."

So Sir... what then are you to do? Might as well throw in the towel. I suggest that a good place to begin might be by gouging out your eyes and throwing them away

Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

And when you have done that begin cutting off your feet and hands.

Matthew 18:8
If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

Saying we "all sin so what's the problem we are all covered by grace anyway?" is a half truth from Satan or from the minds of twisted apostates.

Those are your words and they are a distortion of what I have said here. In fact it does not appear that you are covered by grace.

You can not be a slave to God unless you have been set free from sin.

You can not begin a life that leads to holiness until you have been set free from sin.

You can not begin to experience eternal life until you have been set free from sin.

Romans 6:22
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

You need to be set free from sin before you can become a slave to righteousness.

Romans 6:18
You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

I will give you more benefit than you have given our friend Sputnikboy here, And I will not ask you if you are a Christian. But Robert the the following scripture has direct application to the situation here.

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

 

[bibleberean]

We are not supposed to promote or cultivate sin in the church.

Paul's words have no meaning to a person that has turned grace into lasiviousness.

Jude 1:3-4 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

We are not to promote, tolerate, excuse, or overlook wickedness in the church.

1 Corinthians 5:11-13 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

I am not under the law of Moses but I am to obey the teachings of Christ.

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

We are not under the law of Moses.

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

If we practice fornication or idolatry then it is the duty of the church to separate us from the rest of the body.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Sputnikboy,

Are you even a Christian?

Are you a bible believer?

Do you put the word of God above the philosophy of man?

You don't have to answer and I won't badger you to do so.

I am only curious.

Thanks,

Robert

He seems like a Christian to me. I think it is great that God does not make us all think one way and that the interpretation of much of the Bible is debatable.

Good to have you aboard Sput, my brother.

 

[bibleberean]

I was only curious if Sputnik thought of himself as a Christian.

I had a reason for asking.

Sputnik wrote:

Don't you think by now, Free, that everyone is familiar with those same old texts? The thing is, and the point that I keep trying to make, is that no one who is genetically predisposed to a sexual attraction for the same gender is going to become 'straight' simply by reading them. How are they even supposed to?

Don't Christians have a bit more imagination than to keep regurgitating the same old line?

Underlined by me for emphasis.

Another quote:

Free wrote

Except that homosexuality is far from being a 'gray area'.

Sputnik replied

How so, Free? I don't want Christian rhetoric, I want proof.

I wasn't sure if he claimed to be a Christian or not since Sputnik himself appeared to be making a distinction between his beliefs and Christians.

He now says he "thought he was a Christian but he isn't sure about others on these boards."

I asked

Are you even a Christian?

Sputnik responded

I thought I was. Since debating some of these issues with other Christians on the forum, however, I DO wonder about 'the Christianity' of a number of us.

As far as the your statement that "muchof the bible is debatable". Why don't you start a thread on that topic?

That is too "broad" a statement for this thread.

This thread has enough curves and diversions in it already. At least in my opinion.

I would love to see which parts of the bible you think are up for debate and how God doesn't want us all to "think one way". ;-)

 

[Windozer]

We are not supposed to promote or cultivate sin in the church.

As if it is possible to purge the church from sin? Robert come here and tell us this stuff once you have no sin left in you?

Robert...(Show us by scripture not your take on it) Why we should or the church should aspire to have no sin in it/us?

I have shown you directly with the words of the bible why we should accept grace for the sins that are still in us such as the thorn in the flesh, (messenger from Satin) Sin. that Paul tells us about.

And you respond with things like I am not under the law of Moses but I am to obey the teachings of Christ.

Yet you appear to continue to refuse to believe those teachings.

Do you believe?

Romans 3:24 that are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus

.

Do you believe?

Galatians 3:11
Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."

Do you believe that if we want to be righteous we need to live by faith? "The righteous will live by faith."

Do you believe? Galatians 5:4

You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Do you believe that there are situations in life for all of us where Gods grace needs to be sufficient for us?

Do you believe that Gods power is made perfect in weakness?

2 Corinthians 12:9
But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.

Do you believe Romans 3:21
[ Righteousness Through Faith ] But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

Do you believe that we have been released from the law?

Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Robert you tell us that you realize that we are not under the law. Well I put it to you that you have two choices...You are ether under the law or under grace.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

Robert if you are not under grace, Sin is your master. That my friend is the word of God... And it is your words here that have condemned you.

 

[bibleberean]

I am under grace and not the law of Moses...

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I stated:

We are not supposed to promote or cultivate sin in the church.

I don't see how anyone could have a problem with that statement unless they think we "are supposed to promote and cultivate sin in the church". :o

Rebuking the church for tolerating the sin of fornication by an individual in the church Paul writes...

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,


1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Leaven is sin...

Fornication as shown above is sin and not to be tolerated, promoted or defended in the church...

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Sin is to be ran from and not embraced.

That is clear unless a person is deaf, dumb and blind...

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Not in my bible buster!

That may be the teachings of apostates and false teachers but it is not the teachings of Paul.

 

[Windozer]

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Not in my bible buster!

Maybe not in your bible, but there will always be some sin in your life buster; for as long as you are on this planet.

We are not supposed to promote or cultivate sin in the church.

Those are your words and quite a leap from anything I seen posted here.

One thing I have never been able to understand is how you think you have any control over who is part of the church?

There are congregations who accept homosexuals into their church, and you have no control over that.

Another thing you have no control over is which sins in each individuals life fit into the category of his grace is sufficient. As the sin I have struggled with are not the same as yours. Each has their own cross to bear. There own road to travel.

I don't know that God needs any little watch dogs (in his church) to keep an eye out for sin. Any church that would kick me out because of any sin I have in me. I would count that as being a blessing.

Romans 2:1
[ God's Righteous Judgment ] You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

I put it to you that there are homosexuals that sit beside you at church worshiping God with you and you know not who they are. I put it to you that you have eaten with some of them.

I put it to you that some pastors are homosexual and you do not know who they are.

And I put it to you that there is a good chance that there are some here that agree with you that are homosexuals and you do not know who they are.

John 8:7
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."[/quote]

Just how is it that you can claim to be under grace, yet insist that Sin is something we are not supposed to do?

If it were possible to be without sin we would not find ourselves in need of grace.

You know some folk are so earthly good that they are no heavenly good. while others are so heavenly good that they are earthly good.

I have to ask you what earthly good is your statement that Sin is something we are not supposed to do. When whole world is a prisoner of sin. Galatians 3:22

 

[bibleberean]

I put it to you that there are homosexuals that sit beside you at church worshiping God with you and you know not who they are. I put it to you that you have eaten with some of them.

I put it to you that some pastors are homosexual and you do not know who they are.

Well shame on them. That is too bad that they are in sin and we don't know it. That is not our fault.

If some "slime ball" come into the church and says I am a pornographer, adulterer and homosexual and I am here to say that there is nothing wrong with it then that person should be put out of the church.

One thing I have never been able to understand is how you think you have any control over who is part of the church?

That is because you are devoid of biblical understanding.

Complain to God if you don't like it. Paul wrote this under His guidance.

1 Corinthians 5:11-13 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

There are congregations who accept homosexuals into their church, and you have no control over that.

I have control over where I fellowship.

There are apostate unbiblical churches filled with people who promote sin. I won't fellowhip with so called apostates.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

I pastor a church and we welcome everyone who loves Jesus and hears His words to "go and sin no more".

we will give the boot to anyone who comes into our church and trys to seduce the faithful with stench ridden doctrine.

We know all about the scum that try to justify sin in the church.

We were forewarned by the apostle Paul about these lust filled animals.

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

2 Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

2 Timothy 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2 Timothy 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

2 Timothy 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

I don't know that God needs any little watch dogs (in his church) to keep an eye out for sin

We know all about those who promote false doctrine and were warned to watch out for them.

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

There will always be those who twist the scriptures to promote sin and lust.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance...

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

We don't promote, defend or welcom sin in our church and I will not fellowship at a church that does.

We welcome sinners saved by grace who believe in turning from sin and living their lives in a manner pleasing to God and we don't buy the lie that grace means permission to stay in sin!

Read this!

Ephesians 5:5-7 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

I am not going to be deceived by Satan's dupes and be partakers with them!

 

[Dave...]

Windozer quotes:

John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Remember you quoted John 6:32 also.

Correct me if i'm wrong. Are you saying that a person can seperate Jesus from His Word, in other words you are saying that someone can neglect and ignore the Word of God, without neglecting and ignoring Jesus?

Jesus is the truth...

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

...but so is His Word...

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

...you cannot seperate the two because...

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[Windozer]

Hey Robert...I suspected that you might be a pastor of a church and I respect that (to some degree) you have to teach what pleases the issuers of your pay check.

I am at a loss to understand (a pastor) applying the names you have applied to certain individuals in your last post here. Jesus had worse things to say about your kind than he did about the kind of people you are talking about.

We welcome sinners saved by grace who believe in turning from sin and living their lives in a manner pleasing to God and we don't buy the lie that grace means permission to stay in sin!

Would you accept a sinner saved by grace who believes in turning from sin and living their lives in a manner pleasing to God, but yet was not free of homosexuality... into your church?

Romans 11:32
For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

So God would have mercy on them but Pastor Robert would give them the boot?

Ephesians 2:4
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,

So God is rich in mercy, but Pastor Robert has shown nothing but condemnation?

James 3:17
But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.

Pastor Bob says give them the boot. Our church has no room for this kind of thing?

James 5:11
The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

How about Pastor Robert? What has he shown us here?

Colossians 3:12
Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.

According to what Pastor Robert has posted here...What does it appear he is clothed with? It is hard for me to recognize much of the above.

Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' [ Hosea 6:6] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Pastor Robert says give those very people that Jesus has come to call... those "slime ball" lust filled animals the boot.

Robert (given your words) it is hard to envision anything other than that which would align with Satan, being in your heart towards these people.

It would appear that you need to apply your own words and repent.

 

[pfilmtech]

I do beleive that bibleberean is geniune in his faith. However bible if I may observe something. There seems to be a vein of bitterness and anger underlying many of your posts. I say this not to be mean or personally attack you but in hopes that you may address it in the future.

 

[Windozer]

Dave...

I am not here to argue, nor to correct anyone.

You sort it out? At the end of the day it is the Son who sets you free. that Son is Jesus and that is good enough for me.

I am only here to poke some holes in someones smoke screen.

 

[SputnikBoy]

I am at a loss to understand (a pastor) applying the names you have applied to certain individuals in your last post here. Jesus had worse things to say about your kind than he did about the kind of people you are talking about.

It's just this kind of attitude and name-calling from BB that I simply cannot come to grips with. He persistently refers to fellow human beings as 'perverts', 'vile', and 'scum'. It is so unbelievably unChristian. And yet these kinds of responses receive slaps on the back from Relic and others as I shake my head in disbelief. I really DO believe that the issue of homosexuality is the least of BB's problems.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

I am at a loss to understand (a pastor) applying the names you have applied to certain individuals in your last post here. Jesus had worse things to say about your kind than he did about the kind of people you are talking about.

It's just this kind of attitude and name-calling from BB that I simply cannot come to grips with. He persistently refers to fellow human beings as 'perverts', 'vile', and 'scum'. It is so unbelievably unChristian. And yet these kinds of responses receive slaps on the back from Relic and others as I shake my head in disbelief. I really DO believe that the issue of homosexuality is the least of BB's problems.

While I do believe that homosexual actions are against the plan of God, I do not think that we will ever reach one by calling them names. I believe that we need to reach out to people and tell them of God's love for them and if we try and do that while slandering them, they will simply see through us and never give Jesus a chance. Afterall, if His followers cannot show love, what makes them think the One we follow is any different?

After all, if we have not love we are nothing more then a clanging cymbal.

I will definately choose to show love as my Savior did then to lash out and push people away from Him.

 

[bibleberean]

Dave...

I am not here to argue, nor to correct anyone.

You sort it out? At the end of the day it is the Son who sets you free. that Son is Jesus and that is good enough for me.

I am only here to poke some holes in someones smoke screen.

You are not here to "argue or correct anyone?"....

Go back and read your posts!

: : :

 

[bibleberean]

Would you accept a sinner saved by grace who believes in turning from sin and living their lives in a manner pleasing to God, but yet was not free of homosexuality... into your church?

Absolutely! :D

I have written that we should support those struggling with sin dozens of times in these forums.

 

[bibleberean]

Hey Robert...I suspected that you might be a pastor of a church and I respect that (to some degree) you have to teach what pleases the issuers of your pay check.

I preach the word of God. If I wanted a big pay check I would preach the syrupy, worldly, compromised drivel that the watered down gutless church of today preaches.

I am a self supported pastor and preacher I don't get paid although I am not against preachers of the word being paid. It is biblical and necessary.

Our church supports missionaries and people who need money more than I do.

 

[bibleberean]

I do beleive that bibleberean is geniune in his faith. However bible if I may observe something. There seems to be a vein of bitterness and anger underlying many of your posts. I say this not to be mean or personally attack you but in hopes that you may address it in the future.

Thank's for your concern and I believe you genuinely mean what you posted.

I am not bitter but I get hot when "wolves" try to damage the flock.

There are "slime balls" in the world that try to seduce and corrupt the church.

It is biblical to call people that do evil or need correction names.

It isn't politically correct these days but it is certainly biblical.

Luke 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Matthew 15:7-9 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

What some people call love and what the bible calls love are two different things.

Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye basdards, and not sons.

I had to mispell basterds in verse 12:8 because it is considered bad language on this forum. ;-)