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How can the trinity be one God?

MarkT said:
I'm using the RSV.

Proverbs 8:22 The Lord created me at the beginning of his work,[c]
the first of his acts of old.
23 Ages ago I was set up,
at the first, before the beginning of the earth.
24 When there were no depths I was brought forth,
when there were no springs abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains had been shaped,
before the hills, I was brought forth;
26 before he had made the earth with its fields,[d]
or the first of the dust[e] of the world.
27 When he established the heavens, I was there,
when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28 when he made firm the skies above,
when he established[f] the fountains of the deep,
29 when he assigned to the sea its limit,
so that the waters might not transgress his command,
when he marked out the foundations of the earth,
30 then I was beside him, like a master workman;[g]
and I was daily his[h] delight,
rejoicing before him always,
31 rejoicing in his inhabited world
and delighting in the sons of men.

It doesn't mention the Father or the Son because it's OT scripture. It was written well before Jesus was born. But it does say 'the LORD created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old' and 'then I was beside him, like a master worker; and I was daily his[f] delight, rejoicing before him always, rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the sons of men.'

So given the fact that Jesus said he was with God in the beginning John 17:5, I think we can say the Son was the workman.
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If you are insinuating that Jesus was created, then I totally disagree.

Jesus is the Creator, as I have listed the scriptures to varify this.


JLB
 
MarkT said:
John 4:34
Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me, and to accomplish his work
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Yes God sent His only begotten Son into the world, to die for our sins.

The Son created all things, then became flesh and dwelt among us.
 
MarkT said:
It doesn't mention the Father or the Son because it's OT scripture.
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The OT knows how to mention the Father and the Son:

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called “Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”​
Isaiah 9:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Isaiah 9:6&version=RSV

MarkT said:
it does say 'the LORD created me at the beginning of his work,
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Who’s me in the poem??? A woman called wisdom:

Does not wisdom call, Does not understanding raise her voice?​
Proverbs 8:1 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Proverbs 8:1&version=RSV

MarkT said:
So given the fact that Jesus said he was with God in the beginning John 17:5, I think we can say the Son was the workman.
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Can you say the Son has a female voice?
 
OzSpen said:
That's not what I've said.
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Ok. So you don't use the term Trinity either?

How about answering my question.

Based on the flowing scripture, that says the Lord, YHWH, is coming with the saints, do you believe the Father or the Son is coming with the saints on that Day?


Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:5


JLB
 
OzSpen said:
The name Yahweh refers to God’s self-existence. Yahweh is linked to how God described Himself in Exodus 3:14, “
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I have not found the word Yahweh in the scriptures.

In the original it is YHWH.


Jesus claimed that He was I AM, which is why I say Jesus is YHWH, the Lord.



JLB
 
JLB said:
As I said before, I don’t know what a biblically orthodox. evangelical Christian is.

I’m not really into labels because not everyone under a certain label believes the same way.

To me you might as well be asking if I’m a charismatic Baptist, which some call a Bapticostal.

If you want to ask me specific questions about what I believe, I will be glad to answer them.

JLB
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That's what I've been doing but few concrete beliefs are coming forth.

1526699821276.png

Oz
 
JLB said:
I have not found the word Yahweh in the scriptures.

In the original it is YHWH.


Jesus claimed that He was I AM, which is why I say Jesus is YHWH, the Lord.



JLB
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JLB said:
I have not found the word Yahweh in the scriptures.

In the original it is YHWH.
JLB
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Yahweh is in the Masoretic Hebrew text. It was for the purpose of being able to pronounce YHWH.

Bye,
Oz
 
OzSpen said:
Yahweh is in the Masoretic Hebrew text. It was for the purpose of being able to pronounce YHWH.

Bye,
Oz
Click to expand...


Ok.

Could you post a chapter and verse where that is used so I can look it up, because I have never seen that word used in my studies.



Thanks JLB
 
OzSpen said:
WIP,

That's not what I've been trying to do. I have been 'seeking [a] deeper understanding'. If that's considered a demonstration of pride and preventing humility, I'll move on.

That has not been my approach. I'm trying to gain insight into this person's beliefs relating to the OP. It's not forth coming.

Oz
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Personally, I didn’t take what you asked as a demonstration of pride, but you want to know what others believe.

Likewise, I hope you don’t take what I have said as prideful, but I truly don’t understand what Biblical Orthodox Christianity, fully encompasses, because honestly it may mean one thing to one person, and quite another thing, to someone else.


I personally just want to be a Jesus believer, and a Jesus obeyer.


What ever a person wants to label that, is ok with me.


The label and identity that I want to have is God’s son.

A son of God.



JLB
 
MarkT said:
Didn't God the Father create Jesus in the womb?
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No, I don't believe so. Jesus predated His birth as a human child. We see this explained in John 1:1-2.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. John 1:1-2 ESV

Jesus, in His human form, was not created He became. We see this explained in John 1:14.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14 ESV
 
MarkT said:
Didn't God the Father create Jesus in the womb?
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No sir.

Jesus was God’s only begotten Son before the foundation of the world.

God sent His (already existing) Son, into the world.


Here is an example of Him, appearing to Moses.


Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”

4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”

And he said, “Here I am.”

5 Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” 6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1-6


Two Key Points:

  • the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire
  • Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.


Here is an example of Him rescuing the three Hebrew children.


22 Therefore, because the king’s command was urgent, and the furnace exceedingly hot, the flame of the fire killed those men who took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. 23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.

24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished; and he rose in haste and spoke, saying to his [d]counselors, “Did we not cast three men bound into the midst of the fire?”

They answered and said to the king, “True, O king.”

25 “Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.” Daniel 2:22-25


  • and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”



JLB
 
I don't normally do this on the open boards but this time I will make an exception because I think it might benefit multiple people to have a better understanding of where I'm coming from. I won't debate this but I do want to try and offer an explanation to hopefully clear things up a little.

Apparently, I have caused some confusion by asking to tone things down. I was not directing this to anyone in particular and it wasn't any one post or word or phrase but I did begin to notice a change in the tone of the posts. I was sensing they were becoming more and more with a defensive posture and I wanted to try to curtail it before it got worse. I'm sure it was not necessarily intended because you all are passionate about our Lord and rightly so. We all believe we are right in our understanding but we need to remember to approach each other with humility, quick to listen and slow to speak as James put it in chapter 1:19.

I was just trying to redirect the discussion toward a more calm, friendly, and edifying direction. That is all.

edit: Oh, and I apologize for the confusion. I very much appreciate all of you and the knowledge and understanding you bring to these forums.
 
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WIP said:
I don't normally do this on the open boards but this time I will make an exception because I think it might benefit multiple people to have a better understanding of where I'm coming from. I won't debate this but I do want to try and offer an explanation to hopefully clear things up a little.

Apparently, I have caused some confusion by asking to tone things down. I was not directing this to anyone in particular and it wasn't any one post or word or phrase but I did begin to notice a change in the tone of the posts. I was sensing they were becoming more and more with a defensive posture and I wanted to try to curtail it before it got worse. I'm sure it was not necessarily intended because you all are passionate about our Lord and rightly so. We all believe we are right in our understanding but we need to remember to approach each other with humility, quick to listen and slow to speak as James put it in chapter 1:19.

I was just trying to redirect the discussion toward a more calm, friendly, and edifying direction. That is all.

edit: Oh, and I apologize for the confusion. I very much appreciate all of you and the knowledge and understanding you bring to these forums.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your input and knowledge you bring to this forum.



JLB
 
chessman said:
The OT knows how to mention the Father and the Son:

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called “Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”​
Isaiah 9:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Isaiah 9:6&version=RSV



Who’s me in the poem??? A woman called wisdom:

Does not wisdom call, Does not understanding raise her voice?​
Proverbs 8:1 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Proverbs 8:1&version=RSV



Can you say the Son has a female voice?
Click to expand...

So wisdom is personified in Proverbs, I agree. But wisdom is something we seek, like the knowledge of God and understanding and insight. I could say, like Paul does, that Christ is the power and wisdom of God 1 Cor. 1:24 and God made Christ our wisdom. 1 Cor. 1:30 So the me in Proverbs 8:22-31 is Christ. Or I could take a different approach, but I would come to the same conclusion. Wisdom is calling, pay attention. Pr. 8:22-31 is knowledge of the LORD. Therefore the me in Pr. 8 is Christ based on the knowledge Jesus gave us that he was with God in the beginning. John 17:5, John 17:24
 
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