How do we respond to jews who believe messiah hasn't come?

[AHIMSA]

Answer: The KJV translators translated "almah" as "virgin" because that's what it means in the text. Here's why:

First of all, it would not be a "sign" if it said "a young woman will bring forth a child". It's no miracle for a woman to have a baby.

Second, in Matthew 1:23, the Jewish writer Matthew tells us what the prophet said. Writing in Greek, he quoted the Hebrew prophet using a Greek word that can only mean "virgin." I am certain that an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, a chosen one of God the Son, inspired by the Holy Ghost, who spoke Hebrew as his native language, would know whether the Hebrew word "almah" should mean "young woman," or what he says, "virgin" (parthenos)."

This is a terrible argument! Their very first point is that if the Isaiah propehcy isn't true, then Christianity would lack being miraculous, which casts shadow on the faith. They, on the outset, assume that the virgin birth is true and then work their conclusion from there...not evern remotely scholarly.

There is absolutely no argument here, it only says "I am certain that an apostle of Jesus would know the Hebrew word "almah" means young woman."

No evidence is presented, it completely overlooks the facts, and functions on the authors hopes that this problem will just go away.


Matthew, when writing the gospel, did not use the Hebrew Bible. He used a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, a translation which renders the Hebrew world "almah" (young woman) to mean "parthenos" (virgin). This was a mistake! When early Christians tried to preach to the Jews using "Old testament evidence", the rabbis would point out this error.

DON'T IGNORE THIS BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT IT SAYS

 

[AHIMSA]

SOLO SAID

[quote:dc825]You are not capable of having a intellectual contribution in this forum dealing with the spiritual realm until you become indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God. Then you can kill two birds with one stone; escape the hellfire destiny where your god will end up with you, and have an intellectual conversation dealing with the spiritual realm.

What a terribly un-clever way to avoid facing this issue: Tell me I'm not filled with the Spirit, and therefore incapable of having an intellecutal discussion. When you were in school did you use this on teachers? When you did bad on a test, did you just tell them that you were filled with the Spirit, and that you could CLEARLY see how your mistakes just were'nt there?

You come across as a waste of time to me, therefore, you will have to study the "young woman", "virgin" in the Hebrew by yourself. I already know the truth. If you don't wake up pretty soon, you're screwed.

[/quote:dc825]

I already studied it, I'm presenting you with what I have found. If you can't deal with that, be honest like BB, just tell me it threatens your narrow-minded perspective and you just simply can't bear to look at evidence.

 

[Solo]

I can afford to be narrow-minded because I'm right. You are wrong.

 

[AHIMSA]

"I can afford to be narrow minded because I'm right, you're wrong"

If the evidence is so clear, PROVE IT.

 

[Solo]

"I can afford to be narrow minded because I'm right, you're wrong"

If the evidence is so clear, PROVE IT.

The evidence lives within me, as I have told you. You have no evidence because of your unbelief.

Trust me.

 

[AHIMSA]

so basically, you're right, everyone else is going to hell, but you have absolutely no way of proving this claim because the "evidence" is all inside you, and nobody else can see it but some tunnel-visioned fundie pumped up on the Holy Spirit?

 

[AHIMSA]

I suppose its true, to be a Christian one really does need to "tear out their inner eye of reason"

 

[Solo]

so basically, you're right, everyone else is going to hell, but you have absolutely no way of proving this claim because the "evidence" is all inside you, and nobody else can see it but some tunnel-visioned fundie pumped up on the Holy Spirit?

You can either be some "tunnel-visioned fundie pumped up on the Holy Spirit" or you can be some "blind lost-going-to-hell-unbeliever pumped up on the lies of the devil". Help yourself, you have the choice to make.

To think that you will ignore the entire Bible so that your life of sin will go unhampered seems to be where your animosity with God lies. Perhaps you can agree with him as I have done. Since my salvation I have come to understand God's dealings with mankind, and apart from him, there would be no belief. I was an individual with an unbelief as you, until I got honest with myself, reckoning that I was a sinner in need of a savior. I believed, and there were no big bells or whistles. God cleanses lives from the inside out, and when he tells you that an area in your life needs cleaned, you either clean it or you don't. If you clean it, then you move on growing in the Spirit. If you don't clean it, then you stagnate right there in that spot, until you start to listen to God again.

I am right because I know the Word of God to be true, and I know Jesus Christ. You are wrong because you do not believe the Word of God to be true, and you do not know Jesus Christ.

All who do not repent, believe, and follow will end up in the eternal damnation made for satan and his angels. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Hopefully you will become humble enough to accept the free gift that God has for you. Salvation.

If not, you are hell bound, dear friend.

 

[DivineNames]

THE MESSAGE IS DEVINELY COHERENT, BUT YOUR UNDERSTANDING IS MORTALLY INCOHERENT. YOUR DEFENSE IS LACKING, AND WILL BE YOUR ETERNAL UNDOING. KNOW THAT YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED IN LOVE.

What does "devinely coherent" mean exactly?

 

[AHIMSA]

If not, you are hell bound, dear friend.

Well, have fun in heaven Solo. If it is filled to the brim with intolerant, angry and hate filled Christians like you, well then, I'm sure I'll end up prefering hell anyways. Me and God never did see eye to eye. Just not really my crowd if you know what I am mean. Besides, I'll get to hang out with some of my greatest heroes, like Gandhi and Buddha.

 

[Solo]

If not, you are hell bound, dear friend.

Well, have fun in heaven Solo. If it is filled to the brim with intolerant, angry and hate filled Christians like you, well then, I'm sure I'll end up prefering hell anyways. Me and God never did see eye to eye. Just not really my crowd if you know what I am mean. Besides, I'll get to hang out with some of my greatest heroes, like Gandhi and Buddha.

I am intolerant of the doctrines of satan and the lies that are against God's Word, I am angry at the schemes of satan to bring the ignorant under bondage of unbelief, and I hate the satanic doctrines that deceive individuals like yourself.

You have no idea what heaven is, nor will you ever know in your current state. You are filled with more hate and contempt than any Christian that I know, and you have been led into a state of animostity toward God because of your sin which you refuse to give up. You will one day pray to God to forgive you so that you can escape from hell, but you will be too late.

I find it interesting that you place ghandi and buddha in hell with you. That is the only thing that you and I agree on.

 

[bibleberean]

AHISMA,

If you and the Christian God don't see eye to eye and you hate Him then what are you doing in a Christian forum?

Are you a masochist as well as a homosexual?

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

 

[bibleberean]

Many Jews have become Christians after objectively reading the scriptures and hearing the gospel.

The best way for Christians to witness to Jews is laid out clearly in the scriptures.

Present the scriptures to them and if they accept it wonderful.

If they don't then we at least tried.

Preach the word and let God do the rest.

That is my "narrow minded way" :D

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[DivineNames]

Many Jews have become Christians after objectively reading the scriptures and hearing the gospel.

I doubt you have any interest in "objectively" reading the scriptures, if it conflicts with your dogma.

 

[bibleberean]

Many Jews have become Christians after objectively reading the scriptures and hearing the gospel.

I doubt you have any interest in "objectively" reading the scriptures, if it conflicts with your dogma.

You are entitled to your subjective opinion. :D

 

[DivineNames]

THE MESSAGE IS DEVINELY COHERENT, BUT YOUR UNDERSTANDING IS MORTALLY INCOHERENT. YOUR DEFENSE IS LACKING, AND WILL BE YOUR ETERNAL UNDOING. KNOW THAT YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED IN LOVE.

What does "devinely coherent" mean exactly?

Perhaps not even Solo knows what he was talking about...

 

[DivineNames]

Why did the KJV translators translate almah as virgin instead of "maiden or young woman?

David Daniels answers.

http://www.chick.com/ask/articles/virgin.asp

Answer: The KJV translators translated "almah" as "virgin" because that's what it means in the text. Here's why:

First of all, it would not be a "sign" if it said "a young woman will bring forth a child". It's no miracle for a woman to have a baby.

Second, in Matthew 1:23, the Jewish writer Matthew tells us what the prophet said. Writing in Greek, he quoted the Hebrew prophet using a Greek word that can only mean "virgin." I am certain that an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, a chosen one of God the Son, inspired by the Holy Ghost, who spoke Hebrew as his native language, would know whether the Hebrew word "almah" should mean "young woman," or what he says, "virgin" (parthenos)."

BB continues:

Jews need to listen to the Messiah they rejected and become "born again".

John 3: 1-21

This kind of argument is completely incompatible with an objective reading of the bible.

It is not merely my 'subjective' opinion, your own posts prove that you aren't interested in 'objectively' reading the bible, if it conflicts with your dogma.

 

[bibleberean]

God will give us a sign a young woman will have a baby.

That would surly get my attention.... ;-)

Not!

That's the way I see it. You are free to see anyway you like... :smt102

A young woman having a baby. You don't see that every day... :roll:

 

[DivineNames]

God will give us a sign a young woman will have a baby.

That would surly get my attention.... ;-)

Not!

That's the way I see it. You are free to see anyway you like... :smt102

A young woman having a baby. You don't see that every day... :roll:

Your argument is clearly false, there is more detail to the "sign" than merely someone giving birth. In that context, there is no reason to believe that it wouldn't say "young woman". Its certainly not impressive, but it doesn't need to be because its only a part of the alleged sign.

Secondly, a "virgin birth" is a terrible sign from God. Almost no one will be in a position to verify or witness it! Only Mary would know if its really true, or possibly Joseph if he kept a very close eye on her.

 

[bibleberean]

God will give us a sign a young woman will have a baby.

That would surly get my attention.... ;-)

Not!

That's the way I see it. You are free to see anyway you like... :smt102

A young woman having a baby. You don't see that every day... :roll:

Your argument is clearly false, there is more detail to the "sign" than merely someone giving birth. In that context, there is no reason to believe that it wouldn't say "young woman". Its certainly not impressive, but it doesn't need to be because its only a part of the alleged sign.

Secondly, a "virgin birth" is a terrible sign from God. Almost no one will be in a position to verify or witness it! Only Mary would know if its really true, or possibly Joseph if he kept a very close eye on her.

My argument is clearly true. I will take the word of God over the word of someone who has some serious issues with Christianity any day.

We must throw out the gospels of Matthew ands Luke, something that is not going to happen.

Both these gospels have been preserved by God and are fundamental to the Christian faith.

Undermining the Virgin birth is essential for skeptics to cast dispersions and doubt upon the Christian faith.

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. The gospel of John attests to this fact. We must throw it out too if we deny the virgin birth.

The bible not your logic nor beliefs is my criterion for truth.

We believe this to be true.

As already stated you are free to believe whatever you choose.

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Luke 1:26-38 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. For with God nothing shall be impossible. And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

That is all the proof I need.

Millions of people believe the virgin birth based on the scriptures. It is indeed a great sign.