How do we respond to jews who believe messiah hasn't come?

[Solo]

Secondly, a "virgin birth" is a terrible sign from God. Almost no one will be in a position to verify or witness it! Only Mary would know if its really true, or possibly Joseph if he kept a very close eye on her.

The virgin birth establishes that Jesus was sin free and the son of God. The faith that God gives at the time of salvation, and the witness of the indwelling Holy Spirit confirms the Word to each believer.

The only ones who do not believe the word of God will regret the day that God gave them the truth and they rejected it. Simple. Only the devil and his children reject, doubt, deny, and cast doubt on the truth. I once was a child of the devil, and I distinctly know the difference between the two paths, since Jesus Christ entered my life.

It's pretty easy to see other's paths of destruction when I have been on that same path at one time. Until one is saved, he/she will never be able to see the truth.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Millions of people believe the virgin birth based on the scriptures. It is indeed a great sign.

The problem is, the "sign" spoken of in Isaiah was specifically directed to AHAZ and specifically had to do with the situation taking place in Isaiah 7. It had nothing to do with a Messiah who might come 700 years later. You quote the gospels a lot, interesting that you don't quote the passage that Matthew fraudulently co-ordinates Jesus' birth with. Have you even read it? I'll bet most of the "millions" you reference have not.

 

[bibleberean]

Secondly, a "virgin birth" is a terrible sign from God. Almost no one will be in a position to verify or witness it! Only Mary would know if its really true, or possibly Joseph if he kept a very close eye on her.

The virgin birth establishes that Jesus was sin free and the son of God. The faith that God gives at the time of salvation, and the witness of the indwelling Holy Spirit confirms the Word to each believer.

The only ones who do not believe the word of God will regret the day that God gave them the truth and they rejected it. Simple. Only the devil and his children reject, doubt, deny, and cast doubt on the truth. I once was a child of the devil, and I distinctly know the difference between the two paths, since Jesus Christ entered my life.

It's pretty easy to see other's paths of destruction when I have been on that same path at one time. Until one is saved, he/she will never be able to see the truth.

I agree...

 

[bibleberean]

Lots of signs were given in the Old Testament that were fulfilled in the New that skeptics will not accept.

We believe that God revealed the mysteries of the OT in the NT.

For instance...

Stephen told the unbelieving Jews this as they were trying him for heresy.

Stephen quotes and explains an OT passage written by David that they did not understand.

Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

Acts 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Compare this with the Psalms and the context they were written and a person can make the argument that this was concerning David for the time he lived in and is being stretched to fit Christian doctrine.

We believe and accept that the New Testament was written under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

The skeptics and atheists do not.

That isn't my problem.

This is a Christian forum and we believe that the New Testament is God's word.

The skeptics can believe this or reject it.

Their sarcasm and contempt for us and their clear disdain for our God and His word is on their heads not ours...

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Lots of signs were given in the Old Testament that were fulfilled in the New that skeptics will not accept

But this particular sign was already fulfilled - and if it wasn't fulfilled in the context of the period it was given, then it was a failed prophecy altogether.

We believe that God revealed the mysteries of the OT in the NT.

For instance...

Stephen told the unbelieving Jews this as they were trying him for heresy.

Stephen quotes and explains an OT passage written by David that they did not understand.

Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

Acts 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Compare this with the Psalms and the context they were written and a person can make the argument that this was concerning David for the time he lived in and is being stretched to fit Christian doctrine

All you're doing here is to raise the possibility that other claims of OT fulfillment in the NT are frauds also. I don't know exactly which you're alluding to here, but you don't need to go any farther into the NT than Matthew and Luke to find some others.

We believe and accept that the New Testament was written under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

The skeptics and atheists do not

That isn't my problem.

This is a Christian forum and we believe that the New Testament is God's word.

The skeptics can believe this or reject it

Why should I believe it when the example ("fulfillment") in question is clearly in error? If there was no problem with this prophecy I wouldn't be arguing there was - but if there is a problem with it you would (and are) still be arguing that there wasn't, because you have a "stake" in all this, a committment to justify. I have no bias and can honestly face this issue, you can't.

Their sarcasm and contempt for us and their clear disdain for our God and His word is on their heads not ours...

Was it on this thread or another that I said whenever a Christian knows he doesn't have a leg to stand on he will go into the "hellfire and brimstone threat mode", or at least threaten it by insinuation?

Now here's a "fulfilled prophecy"! :-D

 

[bibleberean]

There are no failed prophecys in the bible. Many are fulfilled completely in the time period they are given and others see completion in the future.

The issue here is one of belief.

We are not going to throw out Matthew and Luke which are part of the bible.

Skeptics and Atheists would have us throw out books of the bible that disprove their pet objections.

The prophecy given in Psalms 16:1 which Stephen gives says absolutely nothing about the Messiah.

David could have been speaking of the resurrection of his own body. This propehcy was not fulfilled until Christ came and rose from the dead.

Skeptics use the argument that we cannot produce proof that Jesus rose from the dead too and that not once in the Old Testament does it say that this will be a "sign" of the Messiah.

It has already been explained that true Christians believe the entire 66 books of the bible are the complete revelation of God and that many of the prophecies in the Old Testament are not completly understood without the light of the new.

For instance the church that Christ built (Christian) was not revealed to any Old Testament prophet.

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Also, I don't believe that there are possible "other contradictions" in the bible and I did not allude to it. I am saying that the New Testament reveals and explains many of the prophecies in the Old.

I have much more than a "leg to stand on".

I am standing on the word of God. Others have the freedom to stand on their own beliefs.

If Luke and Matthew are thrown out then so should the rest of the scriptures.

Fortunately, that is not going to happen.

A young woman having a baby is no sign at all either in context or out of context.

A virgin having a baby is a sign. I have never beheld the resurrected Christ but yet I believe it. There were only several hundred men and women that saw Christ after His resurrection. You could say this is a "horrible sign from God" and "why didn't He let all the doubters see Him".

Faith is defined in the bible this way.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Also, without faith it is not possible to please God.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

 

[DivineNames]

http://www.outreachjudaism.org/virgin.html

"This is where the Christian response of a dual prophecy comes in. Missionaries attempt to explain away this stunning problem of Matthew’s complete indifference to the biblical context of Isaiah 7:14 by claiming that Isaiah’s words to Ahaz had two different applications. They concede that the first application of Isaiah’s prophecy must have been addressed to Ahaz and his immediate crisis. That child that was born contemporaneously and the first leg of this dual prophesy was fulfilled at the time of Ahaz, 2,700 years ago.

Missionaries insist, however, that the second leg of this dual prophecy applied to Jesus’ virgin birth less than 2,000 years ago. With this elaborate explanation, missionaries maintain that Matthew’s use of Isaiah 7:14 is entirely appropriate. In short, these Christians claim that Isaiah’s prophecy was fulfilled twice: once in 732 B.C.E., and a second time in the year 1 C.E. Problem solved. Or is it?

The troubles created by this explanation are manifold. To begin with, the proposal of dual prophecy is entirely contrived and has no basis in the Bible. Nowhere in the seventh chapter of Isaiah does the text even hint of a second fulfillment.2 The notion of a dual prophecy is thoroughly unbiblical and was fashioned in order to explain away a stunning theological problem.

Moreover, if, as missionaries argue, the word ha’almah means a “virgin,†and, as they insist, Isaiah 7:14 was fulfilled twice, who was the first virgin to conceive in Ahaz’s time? Were there two virgin births? That is to say, if these Christians claim that the virgin birth of Isaiah 7:14 was fulfilled twice, who then was the first virgin having a baby boy in 732 B.C.E.? Bear in mind that these missionaries insist that the word ha’almah can only mean virgin. Are they claiming that Mary was not the first and only virgin to conceive and give birth to a child?

Furthermore, if they claim the seventh chapter of Isaiah is a dual prophecy, how does Isaiah 7:15-16 apply to Jesus when these verses continue to speak of this lad? Remember, Isaiah 7:14-16 reads,

Therefore the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign, “Behold the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel. Cream and honey he shall eat when he knows to reject bad and choose good; for, when the lad does not yet know to reject bad and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread, shall be abandoned.â€Â


If Isaiah’s words are the substance of a dual prophecy, at what age did the baby Jesus mature? Which were the two kingdoms during Jesus’ lifetime that were abandoned? Who dreaded the Kingdom of Israel during the first century when there had not been a Kingdom of Israel in existence since the seventh century B.C.E.? When did Jesus eat cream and honey? Does any of this make any sense? It doesn’t because this argument of a dual prophecy was born out of the desperation of Christian missionaries and essentially makes a mockery out of the Book of Isaiah."

 

[DivineNames]

We must throw out the gospels of Matthew ands Luke, something that is not going to happen.

Both these gospels have been preserved by God and are fundamental to the Christian faith.

Undermining the Virgin birth is essential for skeptics to cast dispersions and doubt upon the Christian faith.

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. The gospel of John attests to this fact. We must throw it out too if we deny the virgin birth.

The bible not your logic nor beliefs is my criterion for truth.

We believe this to be true.

As already stated you are free to believe whatever you choose.

And you are free to believe whatever you want. If your dogmatic beliefs mean that much to you, fair enough. But you can't then claim that you are interested in an "objective" reading of the bible. You would have to be open to the possibility that Gospel writers made mistakes, or misused parts of the Old Testament, for that to be the case. You can't have it both ways.

 

[bibleberean]

Christ was called Emmanuel "God with us".

It has already been explained to the satisfaction of billions of believers for 2000 plus years that Jesus was born of a virgin.

I know this fact is hard to swallow for those who wish to discredit the bible but that is the way it is...

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

The birth of Christ had to be of a virgin. He is the only begotten Son of God. If Jesus was Joseph's son then He would not be deity.

The bible would not be God's word if the skeptics are right and they are not.

Psalms 16:1 Michtam of David. Preserve me, O God: for in thee do I put my trust.

Psalms 16:2 O my soul, thou hast said unto the LORD, Thou art my Lord: my goodness extendeth not to thee;

Psalms 16:3 But to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight.

Psalms 16:4 Their sorrows shall be multiplied that hasten after another god: their drink offerings of blood will I not offer, nor take up their names into my lips.

Psalms 16:5 The LORD is the portion of mine inheritance and of my cup: thou maintainest my lot.

Psalms 16:6 The lines are fallen unto me in pleasant places; yea, I have a goodly heritage.

Psalms 16:7 I will bless the LORD, who hath given me counsel: my reins also instruct me in the night seasons.

Psalms 16:8 I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.

Psalms 16:9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.

Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Psalms 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

Which are written about David and which are written about Christ?

The New Testament gives the answer...

Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

The New Testament reveals the Old as was clearly explained in my last post.

The apostle Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit quotes the same verses that Stephen used in Acts 13:5

He also quotes a scripture from Habukuk 1:5 which relates to that day and Israel being punished by the Chaldeans. The argument could be made that this prophecy was fulfilled and has no future significance.

That as we can see through History is not true. The Jews rejected their Messiah and were punished by the Romans under Titus in 70 AD.

The issue here is this is our "God true and every man a liar" (Romans 3:4) as His word says or not?

Also, remember Luke wrote the book of Acts.

We don't need to explain it anymore than we already have.

Those who do not love our God or His word will not accept any explanation.

This is what God's word states.

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Luke 1:30-35 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

The only problem here is that the skeptics will not accept that the bible is God's word. There really is no other issue.

Just like the apostate Jews these people have rejected God's word. This is the real issue.

 

[bibleberean]

We must throw out the gospels of Matthew ands Luke, something that is not going to happen.

Both these gospels have been preserved by God and are fundamental to the Christian faith.

Undermining the Virgin birth is essential for skeptics to cast dispersions and doubt upon the Christian faith.

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. The gospel of John attests to this fact. We must throw it out too if we deny the virgin birth.

The bible not your logic nor beliefs is my criterion for truth.

We believe this to be true.

As already stated you are free to believe whatever you choose.

And you are free to believe whatever you want. If your dogmatic beliefs mean that much to you, fair enough. But you can't then claim that you are interested in an "objective" reading of the bible. You would have to be open to the possibility that Gospel writers made mistakes, or misused parts of the Old Testament, for that to be the case. You can't have it both ways.

This is a Christian forum and as Chrstians we believe the bible is true. If you are just here to convince us that it isn't you may want to consider going somewhere else.

We have given our side of the arguement and you have given yours. I don't see any reason to believe yours and you see reasons to reject ours.

I don't have a problem with that.

I am a bible believer as are all true Christians. We quote Matthew and Luke because they are part of the bible.

Although I am concerned for anyone who does not know Jesus Christ as Saviour I don't lose sleep if they choose to reject Him and His word.

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

If we reject the gospel of Luke we have to reject the above words of Christ as well.

I think it is very apparent that the agenda of many Atheists and Skeptics is to undermine our faith in the word of God.

Psalms 11:3 If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?

2 Corinthians 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

A young woman having a baby is no sign at all either in context or out of context. A virgin having a baby is a sign

I was being sarcastic when I accused you of possibly not having read the passage in Isaiah that concerns us, but now I am sure you haven't. It was not the nature of the birth of the child in chap.7 that was to be a "sign" - the sign was that a child that Ahaz would be aware of would be born and would still be a toddler (i.e. - before knowing right from wrong) by the time the kings oppressing Ahaz would be taken into captivity. IOW - God was going to do something within a short time, and this time was to be measured by the birth and infancy of a certain child. This is how "a young woman having a baby" is a sign.

Now refute this or admit you are wrong.

 

[Solo]

13And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 7:13-14

The prophesy is spoken to the house of David, not to Ahaz, and the prophesy is that a virgin will conceive and bear a son by the name, Immanuel (God is with us).

Simple for those with a spiritual understanding of truth. Impossible to understand for those who have no spiritual compass to find truth.

 

[bibleberean]

A young woman having a baby is no sign at all either in context or out of context. A virgin having a baby is a sign

I was being sarcastic when I accused you of possibly not having read the passage in Isaiah that concerns us, but now I am sure you haven't. It was not the nature of the birth of the child in chap.7 that was to be a "sign" - the sign was that a child that Ahaz would be aware of would be born and would still be a toddler (i.e. - before knowing right from wrong) by the time the kings oppressing Ahaz would be taken into captivity. IOW - God was going to do something within a short time, and this time was to be measured by the birth and infancy of a certain child. This is how "a young woman having a baby" is a sign.

Now refute this or admit you are wrong.

I have read the entire book of Isaiah many times over. I read the bible through at least once every year and do studies on Individual books.

That is why I know you have no concept of the hidden prophecies in this book.

There is much before and after this chapter that you need to study. Man gave the chapters and just because a chapter ends does not mean that the subject or subjects are over.

The prophecy and condition and future salvation of Israel and the coming Messiah is contained in this book.

The book goes on to state...

Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

The coming Christ is the child that is the focus of these chapters.

The future fulfilment of Christ sitting on the Throne is yet to be fulfilled. There will be a world government and Christ will be it's head.

There is so much to write concerning the prophecies of Christ in this book that it would take to long to write them all.

What you don't understand is that Isaiah is recording all that will take place in Israel and the world for thousands of years to come as well as for that time period. Isaiah is going to find a child born to a non descript young woman and know who it is? A young woman? Where is she and where does it say in Isaiah that this was fulfilled?

There were millions of young woman having babies in Israel in that time period and many a young child that ate bread and honey.

The book goes on to say concerning the Messiah...

And this first verse sums it up. "Who hath believed our report".

Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

Isaiah 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isaiah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Isaiah 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

These are Messianic passages that are fulfilled in the future.

We have the illumination of these passages in Matthew, Luke, Mark and John.

We are not throwing out our bible because someone who hasn't studied the scriptures says we are wrong.

I did a full teaching on Isaiah for the church I pastor. I know what the book says and who it is talking about.

Psalms 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Psalms 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

David wrote those Messianic Psalms under the guidance of the Holy Ghost for and about Jesus.

We know what we are talking about.

These books will not be discarded by true Christians!

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


Luke 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

 

[Solo]

Great post. Isaiah is one of my favorite books of the Bible. I think it is because what is written is black and white, and that is the kind of person that I am. There is no truth apart from God.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

13And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 7:13-14

The prophesy is spoken to the house of David, not to Ahaz, and the prophesy is that a virgin will conceive and bear a son by the name, Immanuel (God is with us)

Let's read the whole context, shall we?

Again the Lord spoke to AHAZ, "Ask the Lord your God for a sign, whether in the deepest depths or in the highest heights"
But AHAZ said, "I will not ask; I will not put the Lord to the test"
Then Isaiah said, "Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God also"? Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. The virgin will give birth to a son...

Who did Isaiah tell to ask God for a sign?

Who said he would not ask God for a sign?

Who was of the "House of David" and who was "trying the patience of God"?

The prophecy given in 7:14 was for Ahaz and the "House of Israel" AS A SIGN REGARDING THE SITUATION THAT WAS INVOLVING AHAZ AND ISRAEL AT THAT TIME.

Simple for those with a spiritual understanding of truth. Impossible to understand for those who have no spiritual compass to find truth.

What "spirit" is behind your "spiritual compass" that it requires you to deny the obvious context of a passage in order to insert your pre-programmed belief?

 

[Solo]

The sign was for the house of David, and the virgin birth was that of Jesus Christ, Immanuel. Simple to understand, but a contention for the children of the devil who decide what is right or wrong in life.

The lies and deceptions are an everyday practice of the father of lies, and many believe him over God the creator who can not lie. Believe who you want. It is no big deal to me. You have been warned by many that Jesus Christ is the savior, and without him you are condemned.

 

[bibleberean]

There will always be some Jews that will hear the gospel and receive it.

Paul sums up...

Romans 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Romans 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

Romans 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

As Christians who want to reach the lost with the gospel it is important to keep things in perspective.

Jesus told us only a few would find the way.

There will always be Jews and non believers who believe they can be saved on their own terms as this forum and others attest.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

It is important to remember that the gospel should not be dressed in "worldly garb" or watered down to make it less offensive.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Present Jews the gospel and some will hear and some will not.

Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:


Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Acts 17:4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

Acts 17:5 But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

There will always be "lewd fellows of the baser sort" to try and disrupt the preaching of the gospel and keep Christians from preaching the truth.

These are the enemies of Christ and His word. We should never allow this type of swill distract us from our mission.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Galatians 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

 

[Andyhill]

Hi all!

bibleberean, you posted.

There will always be some Jews that will hear the gospel and receive it.

Correct.

There will always be "lewd fellows of the baser sort" to try and disrupt the preaching of the gospel and keep Christians from preaching the truth.

I mean no disrespect (God forbid!) but I must ask: Am I, because I neither accept, believe in nor recognize Jesus, to be necessarily considered as one of "lewd fellows of the baser sort" to which you refer?

Be well!

Andyhill

 

[BradtheImpaler]

The sign was for the house of David, and the virgin birth was that of Jesus Christ, Immanuel. Simple to understand, but a contention for the children of the devil who decide what is right or wrong in life.

The lies and deceptions are an everyday practice of the father of lies, and many believe him over God the creator who can not lie. Believe who you want. It is no big deal to me. You have been warned by many that Jesus Christ is the savior, and without him you are condemned.

Got your finger on the "hellfire and damnation button" already, eh? Next you'll gnashing your teeth as we are told the adversaries of Jesus did when they realized he was right.

"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. He will eat curds and honey and when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste"

Are you telling us that this child was Jesus?

 

[bibleberean]

Hi all!

bibleberean, you posted.

There will always be some Jews that will hear the gospel and receive it.

Correct.

[quote:2c1f7]There will always be "lewd fellows of the baser sort" to try and disrupt the preaching of the gospel and keep Christians from preaching the truth.

I mean no disrespect (God forbid!) but I must ask: Am I, because I neither accept, believe in nor recognize Jesus, to be necessarily considered as one of "lewd fellows of the baser sort" to which you refer?

Be well!

Andyhill[/quote:2c1f7]

This was not directed at anyone in particular. There are ecumenical organizations that try to keep Christians from witnessing to Jews.

These groups have pressured Newpapers not to print adds on evangelical projects to reach Jewish communities etc.

I would never go uninvited to a Jewish meeting place and disrupt their services but I would go to Jewish, Catholic or Muslim neighborhoods to invite Jews, Catholics, Muslims, to come and hear the message of salvation. I would also try to publically advertise it.

There are individuals that try and prevent Christians from handing out gospel tracts or from public preaching by stirring up the local authorities and the public.

In my town here in Oregon we had several people threatened with arrest for passing out gospel tracts in the local park due to the protests of people.

These forums have posters who are only here for one reason and that is to ridicule Christians, God and His word.

They are very clever and slippery like their father.

Please bear in mind that this is a Christian forum and you may read things that offend you.

The bible teaches that the Jews that have not received their Messiah are still in their sins.

It is apparent that most of the Jews of today have little in common with the Jews in the OT.

And this had nothing to do with the Isaiah 7 prophecy. That issue has been addressed. I am going back to the topic of how do Christians witness to non-believing Jews

Oh, and to answer your question Andyhill.

I see no reason to believe you are here to disrupt the forums. This forum exists to discuss the importance of the gospel.

In His service,

Robert