How does one counteract the omnipotent paradox?

[Free]

Let's keep this on topic.

 

[Aloysium]

I was online the other day, and happened to find a website that said something to the extent of this--

Omnipotent paradox, in short; What if God is to create a rock that is so heavy, that not even he can move it? If he does that, then he is no longer omnipotent, be cause he cannot move the rock. If he does move the rock, then he is no longer omnipotent, because he cannot create a rock that is too heavy for him to move.

I thought about it for a while, and didn't see any way around it. I knew there must be a solution, but I could not find it. Any y'all got opinions, comments, etc.

the heaviest thing would be a singularity that was comprised of all the matter (energy/time/space) in the universe while having no physical dimension,
which is presumably the first thing that came to be when He created the earth (along with heaven)

it is from this that the entire physical universe unfolded

that's a theory of course, but yeah, He moved that

 

[Guest]

But not everything in the Bible is SCRIPTURE.

Take Isaiah 14:12 NASB for example. That's not a sacred writing, even though it is on a sacred OT scroll. Nor is it a teaching point from God. It is simply the Prophet Isaiah mocking the fallen Babylonian king, after years of oppression and mistreatment toward the Hebrew people. It's the same idea behind "Ha! Take that! Yeah, we saw who got the last laugh! In your face! You got owned!" Isaiah was venting.

O star O Lucifer ? I am praying for you that you understand this prophecy.

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/isaiah1412.htm
The idea that this pericope is also a reference to Satan's fall is due to the fact that Isaiah said, "Look how you have fallen from the sky" (Isaiah 14:12), which is reminiscent of Jesus' words, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." It is speculated that Jesus drew His words from Isaiah 14, thus making the connection that this passage was not only referring to the king of Babylon, but also to Satan's fall.

Another reason for believing Isaiah 14 is a reference to Satan's fall is because of the parallels that exist between the Isaiah passage and Ezekiel 28 (the concept of a fall and expulsion-Ezekiel 28:16), which has more clear references to the fall of Satan (although the historical figure being spoken of there was a man: the king of Tyre [vs. 2, 9]). Such references include the fact that the king of Tyre is said to have dwelt in Eden, been created, and is called the anointed cherub which covers (Ezekiel 28:13-15). Such descriptions are obviously poetic in regards to the king of Tyre, but seem to have a more direct reference to Satan himself.

 

[gr8grace]

I was online the other day, and happened to find a website that said something to the extent of this--

Omnipotent paradox, in short; What if God is to create a rock that is so heavy, that not even he can move it? If he does that, then he is no longer omnipotent, be cause he cannot move the rock. If he does move the rock, then he is no longer omnipotent, because he cannot create a rock that is too heavy for him to move.

I thought about it for a while, and didn't see any way around it. I knew there must be a solution, but I could not find it. Any y'all got opinions, comments, etc.

I agree with most everybody on their answers, it is an illogical Question and the point of it is to distract the the witness for Christ.

God is infinite so the rock can always get bigger and God can always get bigger than the rock .....it puts human limitations to God, we assume that there is a stopping point and there is not one There are no limitations with God, The rock can never Get big enough because God is infinite. We assume that God creates a rock that he can not lift and He can go no further, But God is infinite and creates a bigger rock! and the big rock theory goes on for eternity! But in the end those Questions are designed for us to take the focus off of Jesus Christ. Its like the question can God Make 1+1=5. God wants the lost to come to His Son. And God does Not operate outside of His perfect Logic and laws.

 

[Sinthesis]

I agree that the implications are in the Bible.

What I am about to say will not be readily accepted by many, but here it is...

Every word in the Bible was written by human hands. Yes, all SCRIPTURE was breathed out [influenced, inspired] by God, as evident in 2 Timothy 3:16 NASB. But not everything in the Bible is SCRIPTURE.

Scripture refers to the sacred writings and teachings of the Bible, but not everything in the Bible is a sacred writing or a teaching. The mistake that so many people make is to assume that Scripture refers to every word in the Bible, but it doesn't, no matter how badly you want it to.

Take Isaiah 14:12 NASB for example. That's not a sacred writing, even though it is on a sacred OT scroll. Nor is it a teaching point from God. It is simply the Prophet Isaiah mocking the fallen Babylonian king, after years of oppression and mistreatment toward the Hebrew people. It's the same idea behind "Ha! Take that! Yeah, we saw who got the last laugh! In your face! You got owned!" Isaiah was venting.

Isaiah died before the captivity, thus chapter 14 is a prophecy concerning Babylon. It came true. It is also off topic.

 

[wonby1]

I was online the other day, and happened to find a website that said something to the extent of this--

Omnipotent paradox, in short; What if God is to create a rock that is so heavy, that not even he can move it? If he does that, then he is no longer omnipotent, be cause he cannot move the rock. If he does move the rock, then he is no longer omnipotent, because he cannot create a rock that is too heavy for him to move.

I thought about it for a while, and didn't see any way around it. I knew there must be a solution, but I could not find it. Any y'all got opinions, comments, etc.

The problem is, God is not stupid.

 

[Knotical]

The problem is, God is not stupid.

That's a problem?

 

[John 8:32]

That's a problem?

I think he meant it in the colloquial fashion we sometimes use today, but I think I am out of this one also.

 

[WIP]

I agree with most everybody on their answers, it is an illogical Question and the point of it is to distract the the witness for Christ.

God is infinite so the rock can always get bigger and God can always get bigger than the rock .....it puts human limitations to God, we assume that there is a stopping point and there is not one There are no limitations with God, The rock can never Get big enough because God is infinite. We assume that God creates a rock that he can not lift and He can go no further, But God is infinite and creates a bigger rock! and the big rock theory goes on for eternity! But in the end those Questions are designed for us to take the focus off of Jesus Christ. Its like the question can God Make 1+1=5. God wants the lost to come to His Son. And God does Not operate outside of His perfect Logic and laws.

Agreed. Any time we try to explain God in human terms we will fall short.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I was online the other day, and happened to find a website that said something to the extent of this--

Omnipotent paradox, in short; What if God is to create a rock that is so heavy, that not even he can move it? If he does that, then he is no longer omnipotent, be cause he cannot move the rock. If he does move the rock, then he is no longer omnipotent, because he cannot create a rock that is too heavy for him to move.

I thought about it for a while, and didn't see any way around it. I knew there must be a solution, but I could not find it. Any y'all got opinions, comments, etc.

As we have encountered, through our visual exploration of space, simply immense and unbelievably huge bodies, and as we know, as Christians, that God controls the movement of these objects through the sheer force of His will and power, we can know that the paradox does not exist. God can't make anything so big He could not move it. The power to create is sufficient for us to discount the paradox as atheist nonsense.

 

[EdenBorn]

I was online the other day, and happened to find a website that said something to the extent of this--

Omnipotent paradox, in short; What if God is to create a rock that is so heavy, that not even he can move it? If he does that, then he is no longer omnipotent, be cause he cannot move the rock.

Omnipotent beings are not subject to gravity. The paradox only works in such an example.
If you say if an omnipotent being could create something more powerful then their self, then you have yet another failed paradox- nothing can be greater then infinite power, and that's what omnipotent means.

Pretty much wraps that up, really. There is no paradox to be had

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Isaiah died before the captivity, thus chapter 14 is a prophecy concerning Babylon. It came true. It is also off topic.

It has not yet been fulfilled. We can still point to the foundations of Babylon today. The Isaiah prophecy says it will lost and remembered no more. This prophecy could be considered one subject to double fulfillment, as Babylon was indeed destroyed at one time, but not as utterly as Isaiah predicts. That will come in the Tribulation, when Christ reclaims His deed and title to the Earth.

 

[Sinthesis]

It has not yet been fulfilled. We can still point to the foundations of Babylon today. The Isaiah prophecy says it will lost and remembered no more. This prophecy could be considered one subject to double fulfillment, as Babylon was indeed destroyed at one time, but not as utterly as Isaiah predicts. That will come in the Tribulation, when Christ reclaims His deed and title to the Earth.

If you won't accept the prophecy as fulfilled, then that's fine; some wouldn't accept that John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy concerning the return of Elijah. However, you should consider that if Babylon is to be "lost and remembered no more" to us in a wooden literal sense, then we would never be able to know if the prophecy had been fulfilled, because we wouldn't be able to remember any Babylon to whom the prophecy applied. Christ already owns the entire earth, so there really is no reason for Him to waste time after His return going out into the desert to pound sand into dust.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

If you won't accept the prophecy as fulfilled, then that's fine; some wouldn't accept that John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy concerning the return of Elijah. However, you should consider that if Babylon is to be "lost and remembered no more" to us in a wooden literal sense, then we would never be able to know if the prophecy had been fulfilled, because we wouldn't be able to remember any Babylon to whom the prophecy applied. Christ already owns the entire earth, so there really is no reason for Him to waste time after His return going out into the desert to pound sand into dust.

You just proved my point. We remember Babylon. So the prophecy hasn't been fulfilled in the ultimate, final sense God meant when He gave the prophecy to Isaiah.

 

[Sinthesis]

Thus you have created a paradox where, according to your own interpretation, God has given a prophecy through Isaiah that can not be fulfilled until the very words of God proclaiming the prophecy pass away. No believer could ever know the prophecy has been fulfilled to your satisfaction, because just knowing about the prophecy brings Babylon back into remembrance. A prophecy that does not come to pass is not of God. A prophecy that can't come to pass is either not of God or missunderstood through private interpretation.

 

[wonby1]

I was online the other day, and happened to find a website that said something to the extent of this--

Omnipotent paradox, in short; What if God is to create a rock that is so heavy, that not even he can move it? If he does that, then he is no longer omnipotent, be cause he cannot move the rock. If he does move the rock, then he is no longer omnipotent, because he cannot create a rock that is too heavy for him to move.

I thought about it for a while, and didn't see any way around it. I knew there must be a solution, but I could not find it. Any y'all got opinions, comments, etc.

Just because he is omnipotent does not mean he is stupid.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Thus you have created a paradox where, according to your own interpretation, God has given a prophecy through Isaiah that can not be fulfilled until the very words of God proclaiming the prophecy pass away. No believer could ever know the prophecy has been fulfilled to your satisfaction, because just knowing about the prophecy brings Babylon back into remembrance. A prophecy that does not come to pass is not of God. A prophecy that can't come to pass is either not of God or missunderstood through private interpretation.

The word of God will never pass away. Jesus fulfilled the Law in that He became the atoning sacrifice for it, but eventually, the entire Law will pass away. However, Isaiah's prophecy was not part of the Law. The Law is what was given Moses in Leviticus, and what he repeated in Deuteronomy to the second generation. Try again.

 

[Free]

totopic

 

[Sinthesis]

The word of God will never pass away. Jesus fulfilled the Law in that He became the atoning sacrifice for it, but eventually, the entire Law will pass away. However, Isaiah's prophecy was not part of the Law. The Law is what was given Moses in Leviticus, and what he repeated in Deuteronomy to the second generation. Try again.

Exactly! This is why your particular interpretation of both the prophecy and it's fulfillment create a paradox. Our omnipotent God could never forget Babylon.

 

[cupid dave]

I was online the other day, and happened to find a website that said something to the extent of this--

Omnipotent paradox, in short; What if God is to create a rock that is so heavy, that not even he can move it? If he does that, then he is no longer omnipotent, be cause he cannot move the rock. If he does move the rock, then he is no longer omnipotent, because he cannot create a rock that is too heavy for him to move.

I thought about it for a while, and didn't see any way around it. I knew there must be a solution, but I could not find it. Any y'all got opinions, comments, etc.

When raional men confront a paradox they realize that their initial fundamental thinking on that particular subject has met a road block which informs them they need go back to the drawing board.

They come to a place where in Alegbra, for instance, they find that their manipulation of an equatioon leads to proving that 3 = 4, or some such similar incongrueity.
They must go back, and discover they broke some fundamental rule along the way.



Let x = 4

Then 2X + 9 = 25/(x-4)

or, 9 = 25/(X-4)(2X)

and 9(x-4)(2X) = 25,

hence, 25 = 18x^2 - 72X = 18(4)^2 - (72)(4) = 18(16) - 288 = 288-288 = 0

so, 25 = 0 which is clealy wrong.