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How I can live without sin.

Hopeful

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So you are saying you have never looked on someone of the opposite gender with lust?
Not since my rebirth of God's seed, as it isn't in my divine nature.
Have you always, without exception loved the Lord with all your heart, strength and mind?
Yes, since my rebirth.
Have you never disliked another person enough to want something evil to happen to them?
Never, since my rebirth.
Have you ever told a lie, even a little white lie?
The devil is the father of lies and of those that use them.
My Father, who graciously freed me for the "flesh". the vile affects, and the lusts mentioned in Gal 5:24.
Have you ever taken an office pen home and kept it for your personal use? Have you ever wasted work time, which your employer has paid for, to make a personal phone call, or texted someone? (stealing time).
No, since my rebirth I have added to the stock of pens and other things I used in the commission of business.
If, by your definition, you have done any one of these things just once, sin has dominion over you and you are not free from sin as you suppose. Or maybe your definition is faulty.
I hope that my new life will provoke you too to righteousness, as if I can do it so can you.
And I can do it because of Christ in me now, and because of the grace of God that cannot be overwhelmed by anything this world offers.
 

Hopeful

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One of the commandments that Jesus taught was to love God with all your heart, mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. By your definition, you have needed to have obeyed this commandment perfectly without even one fault from the time you first became a Christ(ian), otherwise you are a liar and the truth is not in you.
Exactly.
I believe God doesn't give requirements that are impossible to fulfil.
If you are being totally honest you have to admit that you have not always loved God perfectly, nor have you loved others to the same perfection. All you have had to do was just to think angry thoughts about a person at any time and you have broken the commandment. So, are you a liar and the truth is not in you, or is your definition faulty?
Like Jesus in John 8:55..."Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying."
PaulChrsitensen:

People can get so much up in cloud cuckoo land that they lose sight that we are mortal human beings with faults and failings and our excrement really does stink.
Aren't you glad that rebirth solves the "only human" condition.
Being reborn of God has its benefits !
PaulChristensen:
Real Christian faith is not just thinking we are perfectly religious. It also has to do with our day by day conduct and behaviour toward God and those around us.
I guess you think "real Christian faith" is continued groveling to the fleshly mind without any incursion by the god of Israel for our benefit.
I have some good news for you.
The truth can free you from committing sin, as Jesus stated it could in John 8:32-34.
The old man can be killed and buried with Christ, and it can be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life instead of the same old life.
Thanks be to God for doing more that just saving the sacrificial animals !

All you have needed to do is to think one angry thought about your boss when he has told you off about something and you have breached Jesus commandment and therefore you have lost your total freedom from sin.
I am a new creature now, so the actions of others only cause me to wish them the best.
Pray for your enemies, and rely on God when in tough situations.
He is on your right hand.

 

Hopeful

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I quote this scripture all the time.


  • Keeping His commandments is how we remain in Him.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


  • Keeping Hs commandments are how we walk in love.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
1 John 5:3


  • Nevertheless, if we do sin... if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.



My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2


  • If we should sin while walking in the light... if we walk in the light as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:7-10


  • If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.



Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7
JLB
Freedom from the flesh, vile affections, and lusts, seems to be something you have yet to experience, so I hope the day of your freedom for sin comes soon.
His commandments are indeed not burdensome: not burdensome enough that we need never break one.
All praise and glory to God and to His Son Jesus Christ !
 

JLB

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Freedom from the flesh, vile affections, and lusts, seems to be something you have yet to experience, so I hope the day of your freedom for sin comes soon.
His commandments are indeed not burdensome: not burdensome enough that we need never break one.
All praise and glory to God and to His Son Jesus Christ !

Walking according to the Spirit, rather than walking according to the flesh is a choice each and every born again Christian must choose to make each and everyday.


  • Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
Galatians 5:16-17


Living our life according to the righteous desires of the Spirit, rather than than yielding to the sinful desires of our flesh has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with water baptism.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13


  • if you live according to the flesh you will die;
  • but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


Each born again believer must obey what the Lord teaches us about these things, and give heed to the Spirit who dwells within us. Dedicating time to spend with the Lord in fellowship, devotion and worship, and studying His word are ways of “sowing” or investing ourselves towards the things of the Spirit. Fasting, repenting and praying in the Spirit is how we build up our inner man to live our lives in dominion over the sinful desires that dwell in our flesh.


Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:-8


  • he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
  • but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Eternal life vs eternal death is the result of our investment.





JLB
 
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Not since my rebirth of God's seed, as it isn't in my divine nature.

Yes, since my rebirth.

Never, since my rebirth.

The devil is the father of lies and of those that use them.
My Father, who graciously freed me for the "flesh". the vile affects, and the lusts mentioned in Gal 5:24.

No, since my rebirth I have added to the stock of pens and other things I used in the commission of business.

I hope that my new life will provoke you too to righteousness, as if I can do it so can you.
And I can do it because of Christ in me now, and because of the grace of God that cannot be overwhelmed by anything this world offers.
Sounds like Wesley's Entire Sanctification by Faith doctrine to me.
 

Hopeful

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Walking according to the Spirit, rather than walking according to the flesh is a choice each and every born again Christian must choose to make each and everyday.
Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
Galatians 5:16-17
Amen to the truth of that.
Living our life according to the righteous desires of the Spirit, rather than than yielding to the sinful desires of our flesh has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with water baptism.
I disagree with your opinion, and use Rom 6:3-6 to prove it.
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
I add Col 2:12..."Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."
I add 1 Peter 4:1..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;"
If you are going to opine that those verses refer to the baptism of the Holy Ghost, I must ask, why didn't your flesh die when you received the gift of the Holy Ghost?
Each born again believer must obey what the Lord teaches us about these things, and give heed to the Spirit who dwells within us. Dedicating time to spend with the Lord in fellowship, devotion and worship, and studying His word are ways of “sowing” or investing ourselves towards the things of the Spirit. Fasting, repenting and praying in the Spirit is how we build up our inner man to live our lives in dominion over the sinful desires that dwell in our flesh.
If a turn from sin has happened, there will be no need to "turn from" sin again...ever.
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:-8
  • he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
  • but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
Eternal life vs eternal death is the result of our investment.
JLB
Amen to that, and thanks be to God for allowing our efforts to be successful.
 
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Hopeful

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Sounds like Wesley's Entire Sanctification by Faith doctrine to me.
Except he abandoned that doctrine before his death.
His writings are full of unbiblical things, and I can't use him as one that stood by the precepts of the doctrine which is according to Godliness.
He initially felt we could indeed be totally free from sin, but gradually was seduced in another direction.
 

JLB

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I disagree with your opinion, and use Rom 6:3-6 to prove it.

Romans 6:3-6 proves zero, because it is just a scripture reference, and not a scripture.


Heres what Romans 6:12 says.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.


Sin is alive in our physical body because natural water has no effect what so ever on its desires to bring us into bondage to it’s lustful cravings.

The Spirit that dwells within us gives us the power to resist the sinful desires of our body, and live in a position of dominion, reigning over sin, if we believe obey the leading of the Spirit to do the things necessary for us to strengthen our inner man, we will have the self control necessary to live a life of love, righteousness and truth rather than being a slave to our emotions and the sin that is in our flesh.

We must “sow”, invest our time in doing things that sustain and develop the new nature, denying the ungodly desires that spring forth from our physical body.


But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
2 Peter 1:5-7



The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts. Romans 13:12-14



I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16




JLB
 

jaybo

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Romans 6:3-6 proves zero, because it is just a scripture reference, and not a scripture.


Heres what Romans 6:12 says.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.


Sin is alive in our physical body because natural water has no effect what so ever on its desires to bring us into bondage to it’s lustful cravings.

The Spirit that dwells within us gives us the power to resist the sinful desires of our body, and live in a position of dominion, reigning over sin, if we believe obey the leading of the Spirit to do the things necessary for us to strengthen our inner man, we will have the self control necessary to live a life of love, righteousness and truth rather than being a slave to our emotions and the sin that is in our flesh.

We must “sow”, invest our time in doing things that sustain and develop the new nature, denying the ungodly desires that spring forth from our physical body.


But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
2 Peter 1:5-7



The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts. Romans 13:12-14



I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16




JLB
Jumping all over the place, quoting Scripture, selecting verses from "here and there" -- different authors, different "books" -- to prove some sort of doctrine isn't going to convince any thinking person.
 
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Jumping all over the place, quoting Scripture, selecting verses from "here and there" -- different authors, different "books" -- to prove some sort of doctrine isn't going to convince any thinking person.
So...You've had a go at shooting him down, now, let's have an intelligent answer from you that will add to the discussion.
 

jaybo

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So...You've had a go at shooting him down, now, let's have an intelligent answer from you that will add to the discussion.
Excuse me? I'm in the top 1% of general intelligence. Now, let's have an intelligent answer from you that will add to the discussion. What are your credentials?

BTW, do you understand the principle of eisegesis?
 

Hopeful

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Romans 6:3-6 proves zero, because it is just a scripture reference, and not a scripture.
?
Heres what Romans 6:12 says.
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
Sin is alive in our physical body because natural water has no effect what so ever on its desires to bring us into bondage to it’s lustful cravings.
Therein is a problem, your referring to the vessel as "yours".
My old self was crucified, killed with Christ. It was then raised from the dead with Christ to walk in newness of life.
My vessel is His vessel now, and the temple of the Holy Ghost.
The Spirit that dwells within us gives us the power to resist the sinful desires of our body, and live in a position of dominion, reigning over sin, if we believe obey the leading of the Spirit to do the things necessary for us to strengthen our inner man, we will have the self control necessary to live a life of love, righteousness and truth rather than being a slave to our emotions and the sin that is in our flesh.
Why do you refute your own POV, above, by denying it is possible to live without sin in your other posts?
Every interpretation of the scriptures that illustrates either how, or that it is even possible or commanded to live without sin that I have presented, you have another interpretation that allows sin.
We must “sow”, invest our time in doing things that sustain and develop the new nature, denying the ungodly desires that spring forth from our physical body.
But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
2 Peter 1:5-7
The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts. Romans 13:12-.
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16
JLB
It seems you have repented of your prior POV.
If so, I praise God for opening your eyes.
 

Hopeful

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Jumping all over the place, quoting Scripture, selecting verses from "here and there" -- different authors, different "books" -- to prove some sort of doctrine isn't going to convince any thinking person.
It may, if the person will actually look at the provided scriptures.
 

Hopeful

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Excuse me? I'm in the top 1% of general intelligence. Now, let's have an intelligent answer from you that will add to the discussion. What are your credentials?

BTW, do you understand the principle of eisegesis?
OK, guys...I am calling that an official "DERAIL".
Back to the topic, please.
 
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Excuse me? I'm in the top 1% of general intelligence. Now, let's have an intelligent answer from you that will add to the discussion. What are your credentials?

BTW, do you understand the principle of eisegesis?
Oh! Then I look forward to receiving your very intelligent answers. Yes, I do understand eisegesis.
Regards, Paul MA Mdiv CB AM FM NZR DSO and Bar WC and Chain. Are those credentials good enough for you? :cool2
 

JLB

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Therein is a problem, your referring to the vessel as "yours".
My old self was crucified, killed with Christ. It was then raised from the dead with Christ to walk in newness of life.
My vessel is His vessel now, and the temple of the Holy Ghost.

Your physical body was not killed and raised from the dead.

Your spirit was born again, not your body.

Your physical body contains sin and is in conflict with the Spirit who dwells within you.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12



JLB
 

JLB

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Why do you refute your own POV, above, by denying it is possible to live without sin in your other posts?

I don’t deny my POV. Your body contains sin, and will never be sinless, until it dies and is resurrected by Christ at His coming, it which it will shine like the sun and not die anymore.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36


Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Matthew 13:43



In addition your mind is being renewed in which you are in the process of being transformed into His Image. Until this process is complete you will not be perfect; fully matured unto the image of Christ.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2


The more our mind is renewed, the more we can discern the perfect will of God for our lives each and every day.



It is growing up into Christ that is a process; a process of becoming sons of God, which will fully culminate on the day of resurrection... nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.


For now, we walk with Him in the light and be led by the Spirit, so that we... giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.






JLB
 

JLB

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It seems you have repented of your prior POV.
If so, I praise God for opening your eyes.

You seem to misunderstand much of what scripture says, and apply things that are yet future, mixing together what we are to do now, to grow and mature, as well as remain in Christ, with what we will have at the resurrection.


Please learn to rightly divide God’s word, discerning context and content.


If the word of God instructs you to cleanse yourself of all filthiness of flesh and spirit, then don’t just ignore these instructions because you have been indoctrinated to believe all this was already accomplished at water baptism.


Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1


again


But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 2 Timothy 2:20-22



Again, if the scriptures instruct us to cleanse ourselves of dishonorable things but you don’t believe you need to honestly do this because you have been indoctrinated by your denomination to believe you became sinless at water baptism, then you will just ignore these instructions, which means you have something in you that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, not letting the truth penetrate your mind where it can renew your mind.


Paul calls this a stronghold.



For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 2 Corinthians 10:4-5



You have exposed this unbiblical doctrine when you admitted to us that confessing our sins and being forgiven is not for Christians because born again Christians are sinless.



This is a dangerous stronghold that keeps you from going before God and confessing your sin so you will be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness.


Also, it puffs you up in pride,(the very sin you deny) which blinds you to think you are sinless, as well as look on others as not being born again, because they are not “sinless” like you.








JLB
 

Hopeful

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Your physical body was not killed and raised from the dead.
If Romans 6:4-6 is true, it is .
It is written..."Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
Why don't you believe that?
Your spirit was born again, not your body.
Sorry you believe in a partial rebirth that accommodates sinfulness.
I believe in the total rebirth that allows me to live without sinning.
Your physical body contains sin and is in conflict with the Spirit who dwells within you.
Were that true, then you are saying the temple of God contains sin.
We know that to be untrue.
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12
JLB
Do you feel Paul is just kidding, or teasing us with impossible to obey commands?
I don't.
 
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