How is a biblical conflict solved?

[donadams]

That verse refers to an apostle / bishop not the people who must be taught

Lk 1:4
Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21
Acts 8:31
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

No Christian has the authority to read scripture for yourself and decide your own doctrines or beliefs! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

And there is only one savior on covenant one church one Lord one faith one baptism for all men and all time till Christ returns

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal) All men!

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people. All men!

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world. All men!

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. All men!

Lk 2: 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. All men!

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (All people universal) All men!

1 Tim 2:5 one mediator

Jn 10:16 One new covenant church

Only Jesus Christ has authority to found the church on Peter and the apostles! Matt 16:18-19 Matt 18:18
Jn 20:21 eph 2:20

All others are heretical sects the tradition of men!

Jurisdictional authority:

Hierarchical authority:


God always establishes peace and by obedience to hierarchical authority!

There is a hierarchical authority in all that God has ordained!

The angelic kingdom:
The civil gov:
The church:
The family:


All are ordered with obedience to hierarchical and jurisdictional authority!

Hierarchical nature of the new covenant church:

If you agree that Christ is the head of the church then you have consented to the fact there is a hierarchical nature of the new covenant church!

God is the head of Christ:
Christ is the head of the church:
Peter has the role of representing Christ here in earth, visible head, and the apostles / bishops their successors and those they ordain for ministry in union with Peter administer the kingdom, govern the church, teach and sanctify all men, the lay people or nations!

Spiritual anarchy produces spiritual chaos just look at the 25000 sects all full of errors and contradictions that came out of Luther’s little experiment!




Acts 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

Apostles are ordained / bishops / ministry

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Same ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21-23

Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Apostolic authority!
God sent them apostles to teach them the truth revealed by Christ!
Matt 28:19 all the apostles
Philip an apostle acts 8
Peter an apostle acts 10

Jn 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

Acts 1:8 my witnesses

There is a big difference between the people, and the priesthood of Christ and the apostles!

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you. And Jn 17:18 I send you!

(The apostles with the same mission, power, and authority)

The apostles received the kingdom.
Lk 22:29

The apostles administer the kingdom. Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

The apostles govern the church.
Matt 28:19-20

The apostles hold office.
Acts 1:15-20

The apostles have authority to forgive sins. Jn 20:23

Apostles are the light of the world!
Matt 5:14

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Three fold ministry,

Teaching:
Sanctification:
Governing:

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

 

[JackrabbitSlim]

So, are you saying we are not to read the Bible, but only allow a Priest to teach us and that anyone who is not Catholic are heretics as this is how it sounds to me unless I am not understanding you?

Jesus founded the first Christian Church (not the Roman Catholic Church) on the day of Pentecost starting with the Disciples that received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and were given the great commission to take the teachings (doctrines) of Christ out into the world teaching in all truths as the Holy Spirit working through them. Upon Peter's first sermon that day there were around 3000 that that were added to the church (body of Christ). Salvation does not come by the Priest or the Pastor or anyone else, as faith comes by hearing the word of God in what He had the Prophets and Apostles to write.

Salvation comes by the grace of God through faith that is Christ Jesus alone as only He is the way, the truth and the life and the only one who forgives our sins when we confess them to Him alone.

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.

John 1:1 in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 the same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4 in him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 and the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.​

Catholicism is an evil system, designed to fool people into believing they are saved. Of course, there are some Catholics that are saved, but, the very core of Catholicism is wicked, no better than the Pharisees of old. A modern Sanhedrin.

 

[for_his_glory]

Catholicism is an evil system, designed to fool people into believing they are saved. Of course, there are some Catholics that are saved, but, the very core of Catholicism is wicked, no better than the Pharisees of old. A modern Sanhedrin.

It's a well kept secret from the congregation like any organized religion that has a founding purpose. If you really want to know I have a book I wrote on Revelation called The Unveiling that is found in the End Time forum under the subforum Revelation and you can read what I have written in Chapter 13.

I will say that not all the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church are wrong as many of them do line up with scripture. Just like anything we are taught needs to be Spiritually discerned. I have nothing against Catholic people as my mother's side of the family were all Catholics, but she had to denounce the Catholic church in order to marry my dad as he wasn't Catholic.

 

[JackrabbitSlim]

It's a well kept secret from the congregation like any organized religion that has a founding purpose. If you really want to know I have a book I wrote on Revelation called The Unveiling that is found in the End Time forum under the subforum Revelation and you can read what I have written in Chapter 13.

I will say that not all the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church are wrong as many of them do line up with scripture. Just like anything we are taught needs to be Spiritually discerned. I have nothing against Catholic people as my mother's side of the family were all Catholics, but she had to denounce the Catholic church in order to marry my dad as he wasn't Catholic.

I'll certainly seek out and read your writing. I, too, have nothing against Catholic people, this is why I try to remind myself to use the word Catholicism sand not Catholic, because my issue is with their teaching and not the people. They do have some biblically correct teachings, but just enough to make people believe their other teachings are biblical as well. It's like, something that sounds good, until you read the fine print!

 

[for_his_glory]

All are ordered with obedience to hierarchical and jurisdictional authority!

But, when that authority of hierarchical becomes the authority of man's dictatorship that derives from the rudiments of worldly ways then it is no longer the governing powers of God, but that of the governing powers of the prince of the power of the air, Ephesians 2:1-2.

 

[donadams]

This is increasingly, I believe, a very important matter. More and more, I encounter professing believers who are of the view that the Bible is "up for grabs" as far as what its contents mean. Part of this view is derived from the secular, relativistic and post-modern North American culture that increasingly opposes the idea of absolute truth, wanting only questions, skepticism and subjective preference, instead. In such a society, where personal feelings trump objective fact, biblical absolutes are becoming highly unpopular and offensive. But if the Church gives ground to the rising tide of skeptical subjectivism and moral relativism, it will grow dark and useless, nothing more than a mirror of human opinion and preference.

Anyway, in my experience it is relatively rare, actually, for two thoughtful believers who are carefully handling God's word to arrive at entirely different views on what it is saying. Very often, differences among these sort of believers amount to differences of degree of emphasis, or order, not substance. By means of sound reasoning, legitimate interpretive hermeneutics, and Spirit-controlled and guided illumination, the truth of God's word need not remain a perennial mystery, or impervious to certainty.

One of the most common - and worst - ways to handle God's word is by divorcing a verse from its immediate context then linking it illegitimately to other verses or passages from other books of the Bible entirely. In fifty years of walking with God, I have encountered the most contorted ideas about God's truth by those who do this as as standard practice. Never read a Bible verse. Always read - and understand - any verse in its context.

The law of non-contradiction forbids two directly contrary views from being simultaneously correct. One view is wrong, or both are; but they can't both be right at the same time. It is the responsibility of each believer to make a careful assessment of both views and decide which is right and which is wrong (or, that they are both in error). Just leaving doctrinal issues as ultimately unknowable is careless and immature, and denies the absolute and precious nature of divine truth.

Oh I agree
So does Jn 3:5 in context refer to baptismal regeneration?

Do find the “faith alone” contradicts the “Bible alone”? Thanks

 

[JackrabbitSlim]

But, when that authority of hierarchical becomes the authority of man's dictatorship that derives from the rudiments of worldly ways then it is no longer the governing powers of God.

Oh I agree
So does Jn 3:5 in context refer to baptismal regeneration?

Do find the “faith alone” contradicts the “Bible alone”? Thanks

What do you say is the Church?

 

[donadams]

Yes, Abraham had to obey God, but not to be credited righteousness. That happened when he believed God's promise of a son who would inherit the blessing on his behalf, before he did any work. Thus the phrase, "God credits righteousness apart from works" Romans 4:6 BSB.


No.
There was no Mosaic covenant to be received into until many, many years later. Paul talks about this in Galatians 3 to defend the fact that the promise existed long before the Mosaic covenant, and, most importantly, that covenant of works did not replace the promise. The inheritance has always been given through a promise received by believing in that promise, not given through a covenant of works.

Galatians 3:17-18 BSB

17What I mean is this: The law that came 430 years later does not revoke the covenant previously established by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God freely granted it to Abraham through a promise.

Abraham still had to be circumcised and obey God in offering his only son!
Mary and Joseph received Christ but they also had to obey and go into a foreign land

 

[JackrabbitSlim]

Abraham still had to be circumcised and obey God in offering his only son!
Mary and Joseph received Christ but they also had to obey and go into a foreign land

What do you say is the Church?

 

[donadams]

There’s a big difference between Christ and his priesthood and the priesthood of the people!

Christ’s ministerial priesthood heb 7:17 & 8:1
People non-ministerial priesthood 1 pet 2:9

 

[donadams]

So, are you saying we are not to read the Bible, but only allow a Priest to teach us and that anyone who is not Catholic are heretics as this is how it sounds to me unless I am not understanding you?

Jesus founded the first Christian Church (not the Roman Catholic Church) on the day of Pentecost starting with the Disciples that received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and were given the great commission to take the teachings (doctrines) of Christ out into the world teaching in all truths as the Holy Spirit working through them. Upon Peter's first sermon that day there were around 3000 that that were added to the church (body of Christ). Salvation does not come by the Priest or the Pastor or anyone else, as faith comes by hearing the word of God in what He had the Prophets and Apostles to write.

Salvation comes by the grace of God through faith that is Christ Jesus alone as only He is the way, the truth and the life and the only one who forgives our sins when we confess them to Him alone.

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.

John 1:1 in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 the same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4 in him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 and the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.​

You really believe salvation is possible without a priest?

 

[JackrabbitSlim]

You really believe salvation is possible without a priest?

What do you call the Church? Seem to be avoiding this question?

 

[for_his_glory]

There’s a big difference between Christ and his priesthood and the priesthood of the people!

Christ’s ministerial priesthood heb 7:17 & 8:1
People non-ministerial priesthood 1 pet 2:9

We all have a witness and a word of testimony and everyone that is in Christ and He in them through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit are a royal priesthood to Him. It's not about a Roman Catholic Priest, Pope, Paster or any church affiliation one chooses to attend, but about the body of Christ through the Spiritual renewal of the inner man (spirit) as we have been made disciples of Christ picking up our cross to follow Him alone. The cross before us, the world behind us.

 

[for_his_glory]

You really believe salvation is possible without a priest?

Show me in scripture where only a Catholic Priest can give us salvation or even absolution from our sins or that we are to pray to Mary. Whether you realize it or not that is heresy that comes against the word of God in Ephesians 2:8.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[JackrabbitSlim]

You really believe salvation is possible without a priest?

You really believe salvation isn't possible without a priest?

What do you say is the Church?

I guess I'll answer for you. You believe the Church is the Catholic Church and not the body of believers. You believe none are saved unless they belong to the Catholic "church." Furthermore, you believe only through the Catholic "church" is there "absolution" of sin, and only if a priest pronounces it as such. You believe that it is okay to "pray" to saints long since dead, and, who can't hear prayers even if they wanted to. Am I wrong in this assumption? All these things are in direct defiance of the Word of God, which is why the Catholic "church" had to change the Holy Scripture and to add in other "books" in order to "validate" doctrines of demons. I am not calling what you believe wrong, I am calling it evil heresy! I do not go into the Catholic forum to proclaim Catholicism as evil, nor do I go there to challenge Catholic belief. However, if you do the same here, you should expect a Christian to defend the faith and call out your believe for what it is, heresy.

 

[Tenchi]

Oh I agree
So does Jn 3:5 in context refer to baptismal regeneration?

Do find the “faith alone” contradicts the “Bible alone”? Thanks

John 3:4-6 (NASB)
4 Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

What did Jesus say? In verse 6, he clarified his words in verse 5, indicating that "born of water" corresponds to "born of flesh." Jesus was responding to Nicodemus' question about two births, clarifying in verse 6 that one birth was of the flesh (born of water) and the other of the Spirit. How, in context, then, verse 5 can be made to teach that water-baptism is spiritually-regenerational, I don't know. The whole exchange is about two different births, not about two means of achieving the same birth. What is the "water" of the first, physical, birth? This seems pretty obvious to me: the placental fluid accompanying childbirth.

This interpretation of the passage above requires no addition to, nor subtraction from, Christ's words or the content of the passage. Simply taking the simplest, most straightforward reading of the text in its immediate context yields what I think is the most obvious meaning of Jesus' words.

I don't know what you mean by your second question. "Faith alone"? In regards to what? And what is your proposed alternative to "faith alone"? What is your exact problem with sola scriptura?

 

[for_his_glory]

donadams you need to expect others to oppose some of your beliefs and that is why there is a Catholic forum in order to discuss these beliefs of yours. This is the Biblical Growth and Study forum where we share the word of God, not by how the Roman Catholic Church believes, but what has already been written in the scriptures that make up the Bible. The Roman Catholic Church use to burn Bibles as they were forbidden to even own and read one. By the orders of the Roman hierarchy millions of Christians were killed in their crusades against Protestants.

When my nephew went through the Catechism and became a member of the Roman Catholic Church I bought him a Bible as a gift, but he was not allowed to accept it and that was back in the mid 70's. I know many Catholics who now use what you want to call the Protestant Bible, as you even say you use it along with your Catholic Bible, and they have found the heresies of the Roman Catholic doctrines with many that were of the Jesuit Priesthood exposing the heresies that do not line up with scripture, especially of the catechism, the idol worshipping and the secret societies that mainstream Catholics do not even know about.

I could show you facts of the Roman Catholic Church that would make one's skin crawl, but that is not what I am here for. Like I told JackrabbitSlim you can find that info in the End Times forum under the subforum Revelation and read Chapter 13 of the book I wrote. All the information I have in that chapter is from scripture, history and from a man that I have personally talked to that use to be to a very High Priest in the Jesuit order and now goes about exposing their heresies. You choose to refute the scriptures we give you as you would rather follow a man's doctrines instead of the doctrines of Christ and wonder why we oppose many things you believe as you have been indoctrinated in them.

I have nothing against you, but that of certain things you believe in and I pray the blinders will be taken off your eyes by that which we share with you in scripture.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Abraham still had to be circumcised and obey God in offering his only son!
Mary and Joseph received Christ but they also had to obey and go into a foreign land

But not to be credited righteousness. That's the truth you are missing.

 

[for_his_glory]

John 3:4-6 (NASB)
4 Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

What did Jesus say? In verse 6, he clarified his words in verse 5, indicating that "born of water" corresponds to "born of flesh." Jesus was responding to Nicodemus' question about two births, clarifying in verse 6 that one birth was of the flesh (born of water) and the other of the Spirit. How, in context, then, verse 5 can be made to teach that water-baptism is spiritually-regenerational, I don't know. The whole exchange is about two different births, not about two means of achieving the same birth. What is the "water" of the first, physical, birth? This seems pretty obvious to me: the placental fluid accompanying childbirth.

This interpretation of the passage above requires no addition to, nor subtraction from, Christ's words or the content of the passage. Simply taking the simplest, most straightforward reading of the text in its immediate context yields what I think is the most obvious meaning of Jesus' words.

I don't know what you mean by your second question. "Faith alone"? In regards to what? And what is your proposed alternative to "faith alone"? What is your exact problem with sola scriptura?

Sorry for the length as I tried to shorten it.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

If you compare John 3:5 with 1 John 5:5-8 water means word as in the word being the living water (John 4:9-15) as in the Father, the word (living water Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. The three that bear witness is Holy Spirit, Gods living word, and the blood of Jesus who made atonement for sin that we can be reconciled back to the Father.

Everything from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 is all Gods word and Holy Spirit dwelling in or falling on and come to Earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus. It's all Gods grace freely given to all who will believe in that faith that is Christ Jesus as He spoke Gods word (John 12:44-50 living water) and the Prophets and Apostles wrote and testified of what Jesus taught verbally.

It's Gods word that we are made righteous through Him, sanctified, justified and made Holy before Him. No dirty river water can save us, but is only an outward appearance to others that we have been washed clean (made righteous before God) by the blood of the Lamb and the renewing through the Holy Spirit.

The Jerusalem Bible
1 John 5:6 Jesus Christ who came by water and blood, not with water only, but with water and blood with the Spirit as another witness since the Spirit is truth 7 so that there are three witnesses, 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood and all three of them agree

KJV
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Literal water has nothing to do with salvation as Jesus came by the foretold word of the Prophets, sent by the Father, and signified by the Holy Spirit that lighted upon Him during John's water baptism for the remission of sins, Matthew 3:11-17. Three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, the water (word) and the blood. Three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost.

The more I think about "born again" Nicodemus had no understanding as even many today would ask the same question "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

Jesus goes on to tell him "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Paul understood it was not by water baptism (BTW baptism is not mentioned in John 3:5), but by the word of God that we are sanctified, which means set apart and made holy. We being the church of God have been made clean by His word as we are washed in the blood of the Lamb.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Again Paul and also Peter gives us the understanding that being born again/born from above is not by actual water which would be a work of our own righteousness, but regeneration (new Spiritual life) that comes by God's mercy through His spoken word and Spirit (Holy Spirit).

IMO it doesn't matter if we say born again or born from above, but that we understand it is by God's grace through faith, which is Christ Jesus and His finished works on the cross that we are cleansed by the blood of the Lamb and our spirit renewed by the very Spirit of God, (Holy Spirit)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Per the conversation Nicodemus and Jesus were discussing in John 3:9, 10 here are a few more OT verses that parallel being born again that Nicodemus should have known, but probably not emphasized as much since Jesus had to explain it to him.

1 Samuel 10:6 And the spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

Job 25: 4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

There are around 1526 instances of living water in the Bible. Here are some verses on living water being the word. John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22

 

[Tenchi]

If you compare John 3:5 with 1 John 5:5-8 water means word as in the word being the living water (John 4:9-15) as in the Father, the word (living water Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. The three that bear witness is Holy Spirit, Gods living word, and the blood of Jesus who made atonement for sin that we can be reconciled back to the Father.

But, you see, I don't have to resort to another book of the NT entirely to make sense of John 3:5; I've only to consider the verse carefully in its immediate context and what Jesus means is quite clear. In the immediate context of John 3:5, Jesus is answering Nicodemus's question about two births, distinguishing them as fleshly (of water) and spiritual (of the Spirit). To make John 3:5 about 1 John 5:5-8 is to both ignore and do violence to the actual context of Christ's words to Nicodemus.

Literal water has nothing to do with salvation...

Right.

Jesus goes on to tell him "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Again, this is to impose on John 3:5 the words and thoughts of another writer from a different book of the NT while ignoring the immediate context of John 3:5. It's not necessary to getting at what Jesus meant in John 3:5 to add Ephesians 5:26 to it. We have only to read the next verse - John 3:6 - in order to understand what Jesus was saying in verse 5.

We being the church of God have been made clean by His word as we are washed in the blood of the Lamb.

I'm not following you here... Yes, the Church has been made clean through the shed blood of Christ, the Word (John 1:1-3; Ephesians 1:7; 1 John 1:7; Hebrews 9:12-14). But the word - small "w" - the Bible, has no power of itself to sanctify a person.

Again Paul and also Peter gives us the understanding that being born again/born from above is not by actual water which would be a work of our own righteousness, but regeneration (new Spiritual life) that comes by God's mercy through His spoken word and Spirit (Holy Spirit).

Right. Water, by itself, has no salvific power.