JackrabbitSlim
Member
I agree, but, that isn't what Catholicism teaches. That was the point.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
How is a biblical conflict solved?
- Thread starter donadams
- Start date
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Only those who have been Spiritually born again from above, baptized by the Holy Spirit, saved by grace through faith are the true body of Christ as we identify with Christ and not the particular church we join. John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9-10; 1 Corinthians 12:12-31.
The church is the entire group of individual Christians who have professed faith in Christ that are the Bride of Christ and the body of Christ Ephesians 5:24-27; 1:22-23.
Historically, the true Church of Christ began on the day of Pentecost with the giving of the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:1-4 as was added to the Church (body of Christ) over 3000 that very day.
The Church was not present in the OT times as it's a mystery this age of time, Ephesians 3:1-6; Colossians 1:25-29. When Jesus said in Matthew 16:18 "I will build my church" He was not speaking about the Roman Catholic Church or any denominational/non-denominational four walled building set up by the man made governing of that church.
Christ and the body of Christ are one. Spiritual ears are only opened by the Holy Spirit that indwells those who are Spiritually born again. Matthew 18:17 is taking one in there fault trying to reconcile with them with Godly principles. Only Christ is the light of the world as we allow His light to shine through us. The church is not the truth as only Christ is the truth as God is the pillar and ground of truth, 1 Timothy 3:15-16.
There is nothing we can do to be righteous?
Righteousness and salvation the same?
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Scripture refutes this and calling anyone anathema just because they do not agree with you is a violation of the ToS 1.1; 1.3 and 1.1 but just let this be a warning to you for now as you are walking on thin ice.
anathema - something or someone that one vehemently dislikes
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Justification is by grace through faith, not from yourself and not by works. It is by faith alone since all human efforts are excluded here, Ephesians 2:8, 9. Ephesians goes on to say that every person who has faith is to produce good works according to God's plan Ephesians 2:10. We know also that faith without works is dead faith. These works, however, are not a cause for forgiveness, but a result of forgiveness. Faith alone justifies, but faith is never alone as it is followed by good works. The works of love are the goal of the saving faith, 1 Timothy 1:5.
James 1:16-18 clearly teaches that the recipients of the letter have been justified by God through the saving gospel which is Christ Jesus who is our faith. James also taught in James 2:14-26 that faith is dead within us if not followed by good works as it takes faith and good works to justify us. It begins with faith alone when we first accept Jesus as Lord and Savior entering into a better covenant by God's grace and then we become his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Great post!
Is it not found in Scripture?
journeyman
Member
Sometimes, biblical conflicts lead to murder, as it did with our Lord Jesus. Also with many who followed him over the centuries.
It's crazy how the religious leaders who disagreed whit the Messiah were disagreeing with the living Word of God.
journeyman
Member
Also, on the question of salvation by faith alone.....everything we do stems from, or is a result of what we believe, so of course we're saved by faith alone.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
How do we believe other than to read that which has already been written that is called the word of God in what Christ, not man, has already taught us. Anything else that does not line up with the word of God is error. If one does not believe the whole counsel of God then one believes nothing.
Jethro Bodine
Member
There is no WORK that you can do to become righteous.
Only through having your sins forgiven by God can a person become righteous.
It is the righteousness of God, not our own. It comes from him and is given to us as a free gift.
But, they are all dead, but yet only they have all truths that Christ gave them and now to all who will believe by faith in Him as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will teach us all truths if we have Spiritual ears to hear Him speak.
Our learning has nothing to do with the man made doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church, the Holy See, the Pope, Priest or even the counsel of the Jesuit Priesthood or even the highest being the Black Pope (not black as in skin color, but the blackness of darkness) as you will only find most of these teachings that are in the Catholic Bible do not line up with the word of God, but only being another book like the Mormons and their book of Mormon, or the JW with their own bible that twist the word of God to conform to their own doctrines. It's no wonder the Pope would not allow anyone to read or even own a Bible and mass was only spoken in Latin that even my own mother did not understand as they would burn them and also persecute to death millions of Christians during their crusades pillaging and taking captive those who were God's own, but thank God many that are still Catholic have had their Spiritual eyes opened to truth.
The New Testament records the history of the church from approximately A.D. 30 to approximately A.D. 90. Nowhere in the New Testament will you find the one true church doing any of the following: praying to Mary, praying to the saints, venerating Mary, submitting to a pope, having a select priesthood, baptizing an infant, observing the ordinances of baptism and the Lord’s Supper as sacraments, or passing on apostolic authority to successors of the apostles.
The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th century (and following) church did not have the complete New Testament. Churches had portions of the New Testament, but the New Testament (and the full Bible) were not commonly available until after the invention of the printing press in A.D. 1440. The early church did its best in passing on the teachings of the apostles through oral tradition, and through extremely limited availability to the Word in written form.
The Protestant Reformation was followed very closely after the invention of the printing press and the translation of the Bible into the common languages of the people. Once people began to study the Bible for themselves, it became very clear how far the Roman Catholic Church/Orthodox had departed from the church that is described in the New Testament.
Scripture never mentions using "which church came first" as the basis for determining which is the "true" church. What it does teach is that one is to use Scripture as the determining factor as to which church is preaching the truth and thus is true to the first church. It is especially important to compare Scripture with a church's teaching on such core issues as the full deity and humanity of Christ, the atonement for sin through His blood on Calvary, salvation from sin by grace through faith, and the infallibility of the Scriptures. The “first church” and “one true church” is recorded in the New Testament, Acts chapter 2; 11:19-30. That is the church that all churches are to follow, emulate, and model themselves after.
maryourhelp.org / 95 catechism questions & answers
what the catechism teaches
The Roman Rite is the main liturgical rite of the Latin or Western Church, the largest of the sui iuris particular Churches that make up the Catholic Church. It developed in the Latin language in the city of Rome and while distinct Latin liturgical ritres such as the Ambrosian Riteremain, the Roman Rite has over time been adopted almost everywhere in the Western Church.
The Sui iuris is a Latin phrase that literally means one's own rite. It is used in both civil law and canon law by the Catholic Church as in the Catholic Code of Canons of the Eastern Church's to denote the autonomous church's in Catholic communion.
The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th century (and following) church did not have the complete New Testament. Churches had portions of the New Testament, but the New Testament (and the full Bible) were not commonly available until after the invention of the printing press in A.D. 1440. The early church did its best in passing on the teachings of the apostles through oral tradition, and through extremely limited availability to the Word in written form.
The Protestant Reformation was followed very closely after the invention of the printing press and the translation of the Bible into the common languages of the people. Once people began to study the Bible for themselves, it became very clear how far the Roman Catholic Church/Orthodox had departed from the church that is described in the New Testament.
Scripture never mentions using "which church came first" as the basis for determining which is the "true" church. What it does teach is that one is to use Scripture as the determining factor as to which church is preaching the truth and thus is true to the first church. It is especially important to compare Scripture with a church's teaching on such core issues as the full deity and humanity of Christ, the atonement for sin through His blood on Calvary, salvation from sin by grace through faith, and the infallibility of the Scriptures. The “first church” and “one true church” is recorded in the New Testament, Acts chapter 2; 11:19-30. That is the church that all churches are to follow, emulate, and model themselves after.
maryourhelp.org / 95 catechism questions & answers
what the catechism teaches
The Roman Rite is the main liturgical rite of the Latin or Western Church, the largest of the sui iuris particular Churches that make up the Catholic Church. It developed in the Latin language in the city of Rome and while distinct Latin liturgical ritres such as the Ambrosian Riteremain, the Roman Rite has over time been adopted almost everywhere in the Western Church.
The Sui iuris is a Latin phrase that literally means one's own rite. It is used in both civil law and canon law by the Catholic Church as in the Catholic Code of Canons of the Eastern Church's to denote the autonomous church's in Catholic communion.
JackrabbitSlim
Member
There is a show called "Pillars of the Earth." While fiction, I always felt it to have a the "feel" of how the Cc must've functioned in those days.
To anyone who is interested in the Black Pope that I mentioned, even though the one in this article has passed away, but yet his successor lives this is an interview with Rick Marten and Eric John Phelps.
Illuminati News :: The Black Pope - The Most Powerful Man In The World?
All this chaos, genocide, ethnic cleansing and disaster we see in this world have a genuine purpose. It is all very carefully planned by a few “invisible”, super-rich people behind the scenes, high above any power structure that the ordinary citizen knows about. They want to create a One World...
www.illuminati-news.com
Grace of the spirit but only by water baptism see my thread in unorthodox forum on “born again”
Reply to #76
Thanks
Notice heb 7:17 Christ is eternal priest, the office of a priest is the offer sacrifice
So Christ as eternal priest has an eternal sacrifice
Heb 8:1 Christ is high priest
So there are also low priests under him of the same order of melchisedec offering the same sacrifice
Once bloody on the cross but for all time unbloody or a pure offering
A clean oblation
Malachi 1:11
Mal 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.
Thanks
Notice heb 7:17 Christ is eternal priest, the office of a priest is the offer sacrifice
So Christ as eternal priest has an eternal sacrifice
Heb 8:1 Christ is high priest
So there are also low priests under him of the same order of melchisedec offering the same sacrifice
Once bloody on the cross but for all time unbloody or a pure offering
A clean oblation
Malachi 1:11
King James Version
Mal 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.2nd reply to #76
Baptism is included in what must be believed for salvation
Faith and baptism Mk 16:16
The means of grace (life of God) in our souls is baptism
Sealed by God
The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!
*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!
Initiation!!!
Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!
You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!
You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!
“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17
A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)
No baptism no grace!
A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!
As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!
without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!
Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!
Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!
They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “
They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22
A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!
Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.
Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.
You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Baptism!
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!
Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2
Born again! Born from above!
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!
Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!
Effects of faith & baptism!
Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!
Faith and baptism!
Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!
2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!
“Faith alone” Questions
where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?
1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”
Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?
Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?
They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???
When we first believed we are saved?
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?
1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?
If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!
Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2
“Faith alone” unbiblical!
“Faith alone” is a heresy condemned by the authority of Christ in holy apostolic council!
We must also suffer!
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Phil 1:29 not called to believe alone but also to suffer for Christ’s sake.
Baptism is included in what must be believed for salvation
Faith and baptism Mk 16:16
The means of grace (life of God) in our souls is baptism
Sealed by God
The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!
*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!
Initiation!!!
Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!
You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!
You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!
“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17
A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)
No baptism no grace!
A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!
As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!
without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!
Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!
Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!
They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “
They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22
A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!
Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.
Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.
You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Baptism!
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!
Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2
Born again! Born from above!
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!
Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!
Effects of faith & baptism!
Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!
Faith and baptism!
Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!
2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!
“Faith alone” Questions
where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?
1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”
Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?
Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?
They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???
When we first believed we are saved?
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?
1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?
If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!
Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2
“Faith alone” unbiblical!
“Faith alone” is a heresy condemned by the authority of Christ in holy apostolic council!
We must also suffer!
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Phil 1:29 not called to believe alone but also to suffer for Christ’s sake.
Reply 3 to #76
Images
Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant exod 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded, graven or worshiped as a god then these images are forbidden such as the golden calf!
Bowing down or posture does not equal worship or adoration!
Worship requires intent!
You must have the intent to worship God properly!
Worship requires intent, offering of sacrifice, a ordained priesthood, adoration, reparation, thanksgiving, and petition!
Bowing or posture does not equal worship! Kneeling next to your bed to pray is that worshiping your bed?
Genesis 23:12
And Abraham bowed down himself before the people of the land.
Genesis 42:6
And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.
Bowing a sign of obedience!
Genesis 43:28
And they answered, Thy servant our father is in good health, he is yet alive. And they bowed down their heads, and made obeisance.
1 Kings 1:53
So king Solomon sent, and they brought him down from the altar. And he came and bowed himself to king Solomon: and Solomon said unto him, Go to thine house.
1 Kings 2:19
Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her
If you kneel next to your bed to say your prayers at night are you worshiping your bed? No!
I have been a catholic all my life and I’m 60 and I have never worshiped Mary or the saints or a statute!
Reverence, veneration, love and devotion yes! Worship no!
Imitation of the the life and virtues of the saints! Yes a husband and father should imitate Saint Joseph, his life of godliness and virtue, patience and obedience and faithfulness! The family should imitate the holy family of Nazareth!
the icon-o-clast heresy was condemned by the holy apostles in the authority of Christ in the seventh century at the second council of Nicea!
Images
Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant exod 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded, graven or worshiped as a god then these images are forbidden such as the golden calf!
Bowing down or posture does not equal worship or adoration!
Worship requires intent!
You must have the intent to worship God properly!
Worship requires intent, offering of sacrifice, a ordained priesthood, adoration, reparation, thanksgiving, and petition!
Bowing or posture does not equal worship! Kneeling next to your bed to pray is that worshiping your bed?
Genesis 23:12
And Abraham bowed down himself before the people of the land.
Genesis 42:6
And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.
Bowing a sign of obedience!
Genesis 43:28
And they answered, Thy servant our father is in good health, he is yet alive. And they bowed down their heads, and made obeisance.
1 Kings 1:53
So king Solomon sent, and they brought him down from the altar. And he came and bowed himself to king Solomon: and Solomon said unto him, Go to thine house.
1 Kings 2:19
Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her
If you kneel next to your bed to say your prayers at night are you worshiping your bed? No!
I have been a catholic all my life and I’m 60 and I have never worshiped Mary or the saints or a statute!
Reverence, veneration, love and devotion yes! Worship no!
Imitation of the the life and virtues of the saints! Yes a husband and father should imitate Saint Joseph, his life of godliness and virtue, patience and obedience and faithfulness! The family should imitate the holy family of Nazareth!
the icon-o-clast heresy was condemned by the holy apostles in the authority of Christ in the seventh century at the second council of Nicea!
4th reply to #76
Psalm 66:12 (RSV) Thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place.
This verse was considered a proof of purgatory by Origen and St. Ambrose, who posits the water of baptism and the fire of purgatory.
Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning. (cf. 1:25-26; 6:5-7; Ecc 12:14)
St. Augustine, in the 20th Book of his City of God, chapter 25, interprets this as purgatory. The preceding verse refers to the saved (“called holy” and “recorded for life”) and verses 5 and 6 describe the repose of the blessed.
Micah 7:9 I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me forth to the light; I shall behold his deliverance. (cf. Lev 26:41, 43; Job 40:4-5; Lam 3:39)
St. Jerome considered this verse a clear proof of purgatory.
Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.
Origen, St. Irenaeus, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and St. Jerome all thought this was a description of purgatory.
2 Maccabees 12:44-45 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. [45] But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (cf. 1 Cor 15:29)
The Jews offered atonement and prayer for their deceased brethren, who had clearly violated Mosaic Law. Such a practice presupposes purgatory, since those in heaven wouldn’t need any help, and those in hell are beyond it.
Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, “You fool!” shall be liable to the hell of fire.
St. Francis de Sales commented:
It is only the third sort of offence which is punished with hell; therefore in the judgment of God after this life there are other pains which are not eternal or infernal, — these are the pains of Purgatory.
Matthew 5:26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.
The “prison” alluded to in verse 25 is purgatory, according to Tertullian, St. Cyprian, Origen, St. Ambrose, and St. Jerome, while the “penny” represents the most minor sins that one commits.
Matthew 12:32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
If this sin cannot be forgiven after death, it follows that there are others which can be, and this must be in purgatory: precisely the interpretation of St. Augustine, Pope St. Gregory the Great, the Venerable Bede, and St. Bernard, among others.
1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw – [13] each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. [14] If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. [15] If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
This is a clear and obvious allusion to purgatory. Thus thought St. Cyprian, St. Ambrose, St. Jerome, Pope St. Gregory the Great, Origen, and St. Augustine, who wrote with his usual insight:
ecause it is said, he shall be saved, that fire is thought lightly of. For all that, though we should be saved by fire, yet will that fire be more grievous than anything that man can suffer in this life whatsoever. (Expositions on the Psalms, 38, 2)
Hebrews 12:14 Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. (cf. 12:1, 5-11, 15, 23, Eph 5:5; 1 Thess 4:3; 1 Jn 3:2-3)
Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman observed (as an Anglican):
Even supposing a man of unholy life were suffered to enter heaven, he would not be happy there; so that it would be no mercy to permit him to enter . . . There is a moral malady which disorders the inward sight and taste; and no man labouring under it is in a condition to enjoy what Scripture calls the fulness of joy in God’s presence, . . . (Sermon on this verse: “Holiness Necessary for Future Blessedness,” 1834)
Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practises abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
The abundance of scriptural evidence for purgatory led to a consensus among the Church fathers: summarized by Protestant church historian Philip Schaff:
These views of the middle state in connection with prayers for the dead show a strong tendency to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory. (History of the Christian Church, vol. 2, “Ante-Nicene Christianity: A. D. 100-325,” 5th edition, New York: 1889; ch. 12, sec. 156, 604-606)
The children of Israel in bondage down in Egypt are a type of purgatory as the promised land is a type of heaven:
Psalm 66:12 (RSV) Thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place.
This verse was considered a proof of purgatory by Origen and St. Ambrose, who posits the water of baptism and the fire of purgatory.
Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning. (cf. 1:25-26; 6:5-7; Ecc 12:14)
St. Augustine, in the 20th Book of his City of God, chapter 25, interprets this as purgatory. The preceding verse refers to the saved (“called holy” and “recorded for life”) and verses 5 and 6 describe the repose of the blessed.
Micah 7:9 I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me forth to the light; I shall behold his deliverance. (cf. Lev 26:41, 43; Job 40:4-5; Lam 3:39)
St. Jerome considered this verse a clear proof of purgatory.
Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.
Origen, St. Irenaeus, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and St. Jerome all thought this was a description of purgatory.
2 Maccabees 12:44-45 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. [45] But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (cf. 1 Cor 15:29)
The Jews offered atonement and prayer for their deceased brethren, who had clearly violated Mosaic Law. Such a practice presupposes purgatory, since those in heaven wouldn’t need any help, and those in hell are beyond it.
Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, “You fool!” shall be liable to the hell of fire.
St. Francis de Sales commented:
It is only the third sort of offence which is punished with hell; therefore in the judgment of God after this life there are other pains which are not eternal or infernal, — these are the pains of Purgatory.
Matthew 5:26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.
The “prison” alluded to in verse 25 is purgatory, according to Tertullian, St. Cyprian, Origen, St. Ambrose, and St. Jerome, while the “penny” represents the most minor sins that one commits.
Matthew 12:32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
If this sin cannot be forgiven after death, it follows that there are others which can be, and this must be in purgatory: precisely the interpretation of St. Augustine, Pope St. Gregory the Great, the Venerable Bede, and St. Bernard, among others.
1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw – [13] each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. [14] If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. [15] If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
This is a clear and obvious allusion to purgatory. Thus thought St. Cyprian, St. Ambrose, St. Jerome, Pope St. Gregory the Great, Origen, and St. Augustine, who wrote with his usual insight:
ecause it is said, he shall be saved, that fire is thought lightly of. For all that, though we should be saved by fire, yet will that fire be more grievous than anything that man can suffer in this life whatsoever. (Expositions on the Psalms, 38, 2)
Hebrews 12:14 Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. (cf. 12:1, 5-11, 15, 23, Eph 5:5; 1 Thess 4:3; 1 Jn 3:2-3)
Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman observed (as an Anglican):
Even supposing a man of unholy life were suffered to enter heaven, he would not be happy there; so that it would be no mercy to permit him to enter . . . There is a moral malady which disorders the inward sight and taste; and no man labouring under it is in a condition to enjoy what Scripture calls the fulness of joy in God’s presence, . . . (Sermon on this verse: “Holiness Necessary for Future Blessedness,” 1834)
Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practises abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
The abundance of scriptural evidence for purgatory led to a consensus among the Church fathers: summarized by Protestant church historian Philip Schaff:
These views of the middle state in connection with prayers for the dead show a strong tendency to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory. (History of the Christian Church, vol. 2, “Ante-Nicene Christianity: A. D. 100-325,” 5th edition, New York: 1889; ch. 12, sec. 156, 604-606)
The children of Israel in bondage down in Egypt are a type of purgatory as the promised land is a type of heaven:
5th reply to #76
Scripture alone
A Fat sandwich man.
Interpretation / meaning?
A fat man that makes sandwiches:
A man who makes fat sandwiches:
You cannot know the true meaning unless I who write it tell you what it means.
Only the church who wrote scripture can give them proper interpretation / meaning.
Christ opens to them the scripture
Provides the interpretation or meaning of scripture
Christ and his church are one
The church provides the correct interpretation or meaning of scripture
1st there are more than 66 books and more chapters like the beautiful faith story of Susana I Dan 13.
2nd scripture come from the apostolic tradition.
3rd what about the divine of the word of God outside scripture? Psalm 19:1 Lk 3:2 gal 1:12 and the fact that Christ taught and revealed the word directly to the apostles in person for three years.
How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:14?
The doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is the only source of authority”
Deny’s the authority of God, Christ, and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit!
Deny’s the ministry of Angels!
Acts 8:26
Deny’s the authority of the church (apostles) to write scripture!
Deny’s the divine tradition: Christ teaching the apostles in person.
Deny’s the power of the Holy Spirit: to guide the apostles into all truth, Jn 16:13 and to governing the church. And be witnesses for Christ. Acts 1:8
Deny’s the apostolic tradition:
Authority to define scripture:
Authority to interpret scripture:
Authority to teach the entire divine revelation.
Denys the authority other than the “Bible alone! Including
Divine authority
Apostolic authority
angelic authority
Civil authority
Parental authority
Restricts the divine revelation and the word of God to scripture alone.
Provides no authority to know what is scripture.
Provides no authority to know what is not scripture.
Provides no authority to safeguard and protect scripture from errors.
Provides no authority to teach scripture without error.
Provides no authority to interpret scripture.
Reasons to oppose the doctrine of the “Bible alone”
Blind or illiterate and cannot read scripture. (Most people before the 20th century were illiterate)
Bibles we’re Rare & Expensive (even after the printing press)
Faith cometh by hearing not reading.
The church of the apostles are lead into all truth Jn 16:13 and they are commanded to teach all men! Matt 28:19 Luke 1:4 acts 1:8 acts 8:31 Acts 4:1-2 Acts 18:25 Matt 18:17 hear the church 1 Tim 3:15 church is the pillar of truth! Church of the apostles is the light of the world! Matt 5:14
The Bible alone does not teach the doctrine of the “Bible alone”.
Biblical reference to authority other than the Bible alone.
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18-20
Matt 18:17
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:31
1 Tim 3:15
When God called abram, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist, and apostles it was not by the “Bible alone” Lk 3:2 the word of God came to John in the wilderness… a book did not fall out of the sky.
There is no list of scripture in scripture!
How does a person know what books, chapters, and verses are scripture and which ones are not?
The word of God is not limited to the “Bible alone”!
The word of God came to Abraham, to Moses, the prophets, and to John the Baptist in the wilderness (Lk3:2) but it did not come by the Bible, or the “Bible alone” not by any book, chapter, or verse!
Scripture all scripture is inspired, all the books and chapters of the canonical scripture authorized by Christ and His church!
The teaching authority of the apostles is the God breathed word of God!
Jn 20:23 He breathed on them (the apostles) and said receive the Holy Spirit…
Lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Hears the word of God)
Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you.
Acts 2:42 the doctrine of the apostles is the word of God!
Matt 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
1 Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ
1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
(The apostles received the word of God and handed it down to us, partly in the scripture)
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
All scripture is inspired! 2 Tim 3:16
(Not only 66 books with missing chapters)
2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.
Did the apostle John possess the truth? Or only when He wrote it down did it become the truth?
Is what He taught only mere human tradition of men? But what He wrote was the inspired word?
Why is there joy complete in the person of the apostle?
The doctrine of the “Bible alone”
or that the church believes by the “Bible alone” is a heresy!
The truth is revealed by God thru Christ and taught by His church with the unity of the spirit and obedience of faith! Jude 1:3 Matt 28:19
One shepherd & on flock!
Jn 10:16
Scripture challenge!
Show me from or in “the Bible alone”?
1) a list (not contents) of the Ten Commandments.
2) what things is Lk 1:49 referring to.
3) what Christ commanded his apostles in Matt 28:20
4) a list of scripture (books chapters) in scripture?
Not in Bible not important
Acts 8 the eunuch had scripture, God sent an apostle to teach him!
Lk 3:2 the word of God came unto John in the wilderness, a book did not fall out of the sky!
Jn 21:25 many more things than those in scripture!
2 Jn 1:12 the apostle in person makes their joy complete not scripture!
Essential doctrine:
Some doctrines are necessary and some are not is error, it is unlawful and forbidden to reject a truth revealed by God, who can neither deceive or be deceived.
Examples of oral tradition! (Teaching)
Peter speaks at Pentecost acts 2
Paul speaks at Athens acts
Even Christ teaching the divine revelation to His apostles in person.
WHEN???
When did it become divine revelation?
When did it become the inspired word of God?
When it was Spoken by Christ to His apostles?
When it was taught by the apostles?
When it was Written down decades latter?
When it was canonized by the supreme Roman pontiff in 381?
When did it become the inspired word of God?
If only when written down (Bible alone) then when it was spoken it should have been rejected as mere human tradition or the tradition of men, and therefore they would not possess the truths revealed by God and could not write scripture!
If you believe the false doctrine of the “Bible alone is the only authority” then you must reject the authority of Christ and His apostles!
It is an error to believe that the office or authority of the apostles ended with the apostle John and public revelation, revelation was complete with the apostle John but the teaching authority or office of the apostles must continue till the return of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:19-20 I am with you (the apostles) unto the end of the world.
Tongues of fire at Pentecost represent the light of divine Truth and the fire of divine Love!
The apostles possessed the Authority of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit in their persons! Acts 1:8 2 Jn 1:12
Scripture alone
A Fat sandwich man.
Interpretation / meaning?
A fat man that makes sandwiches:
A man who makes fat sandwiches:
You cannot know the true meaning unless I who write it tell you what it means.
Only the church who wrote scripture can give them proper interpretation / meaning.
Christ opens to them the scripture
Provides the interpretation or meaning of scripture
Christ and his church are one
The church provides the correct interpretation or meaning of scripture
1st there are more than 66 books and more chapters like the beautiful faith story of Susana I Dan 13.
2nd scripture come from the apostolic tradition.
3rd what about the divine of the word of God outside scripture? Psalm 19:1 Lk 3:2 gal 1:12 and the fact that Christ taught and revealed the word directly to the apostles in person for three years.
How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:14?
The doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is the only source of authority”
Deny’s the authority of God, Christ, and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit!
Deny’s the ministry of Angels!
Acts 8:26
Deny’s the authority of the church (apostles) to write scripture!
Deny’s the divine tradition: Christ teaching the apostles in person.
Deny’s the power of the Holy Spirit: to guide the apostles into all truth, Jn 16:13 and to governing the church. And be witnesses for Christ. Acts 1:8
Deny’s the apostolic tradition:
Authority to define scripture:
Authority to interpret scripture:
Authority to teach the entire divine revelation.
Denys the authority other than the “Bible alone! Including
Divine authority
Apostolic authority
angelic authority
Civil authority
Parental authority
Restricts the divine revelation and the word of God to scripture alone.
Provides no authority to know what is scripture.
Provides no authority to know what is not scripture.
Provides no authority to safeguard and protect scripture from errors.
Provides no authority to teach scripture without error.
Provides no authority to interpret scripture.
Reasons to oppose the doctrine of the “Bible alone”
Blind or illiterate and cannot read scripture. (Most people before the 20th century were illiterate)
Bibles we’re Rare & Expensive (even after the printing press)
Faith cometh by hearing not reading.
The church of the apostles are lead into all truth Jn 16:13 and they are commanded to teach all men! Matt 28:19 Luke 1:4 acts 1:8 acts 8:31 Acts 4:1-2 Acts 18:25 Matt 18:17 hear the church 1 Tim 3:15 church is the pillar of truth! Church of the apostles is the light of the world! Matt 5:14
The Bible alone does not teach the doctrine of the “Bible alone”.
Biblical reference to authority other than the Bible alone.
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18-20
Matt 18:17
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:31
1 Tim 3:15
When God called abram, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist, and apostles it was not by the “Bible alone” Lk 3:2 the word of God came to John in the wilderness… a book did not fall out of the sky.
There is no list of scripture in scripture!
How does a person know what books, chapters, and verses are scripture and which ones are not?
The word of God is not limited to the “Bible alone”!
The word of God came to Abraham, to Moses, the prophets, and to John the Baptist in the wilderness (Lk3:2) but it did not come by the Bible, or the “Bible alone” not by any book, chapter, or verse!
Scripture all scripture is inspired, all the books and chapters of the canonical scripture authorized by Christ and His church!
The teaching authority of the apostles is the God breathed word of God!
Jn 20:23 He breathed on them (the apostles) and said receive the Holy Spirit…
Lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Hears the word of God)
Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you.
Acts 2:42 the doctrine of the apostles is the word of God!
Matt 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
1 Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ
1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
(The apostles received the word of God and handed it down to us, partly in the scripture)
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
All scripture is inspired! 2 Tim 3:16
(Not only 66 books with missing chapters)
2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.
Did the apostle John possess the truth? Or only when He wrote it down did it become the truth?
Is what He taught only mere human tradition of men? But what He wrote was the inspired word?
Why is there joy complete in the person of the apostle?
The doctrine of the “Bible alone”
or that the church believes by the “Bible alone” is a heresy!
The truth is revealed by God thru Christ and taught by His church with the unity of the spirit and obedience of faith! Jude 1:3 Matt 28:19
One shepherd & on flock!
Jn 10:16
Scripture challenge!
Show me from or in “the Bible alone”?
1) a list (not contents) of the Ten Commandments.
2) what things is Lk 1:49 referring to.
3) what Christ commanded his apostles in Matt 28:20
4) a list of scripture (books chapters) in scripture?
Not in Bible not important
Acts 8 the eunuch had scripture, God sent an apostle to teach him!
Lk 3:2 the word of God came unto John in the wilderness, a book did not fall out of the sky!
Jn 21:25 many more things than those in scripture!
2 Jn 1:12 the apostle in person makes their joy complete not scripture!
Essential doctrine:
Some doctrines are necessary and some are not is error, it is unlawful and forbidden to reject a truth revealed by God, who can neither deceive or be deceived.
Examples of oral tradition! (Teaching)
Peter speaks at Pentecost acts 2
Paul speaks at Athens acts
Even Christ teaching the divine revelation to His apostles in person.
WHEN???
When did it become divine revelation?
When did it become the inspired word of God?
When it was Spoken by Christ to His apostles?
When it was taught by the apostles?
When it was Written down decades latter?
When it was canonized by the supreme Roman pontiff in 381?
When did it become the inspired word of God?
If only when written down (Bible alone) then when it was spoken it should have been rejected as mere human tradition or the tradition of men, and therefore they would not possess the truths revealed by God and could not write scripture!
If you believe the false doctrine of the “Bible alone is the only authority” then you must reject the authority of Christ and His apostles!
It is an error to believe that the office or authority of the apostles ended with the apostle John and public revelation, revelation was complete with the apostle John but the teaching authority or office of the apostles must continue till the return of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:19-20 I am with you (the apostles) unto the end of the world.
Tongues of fire at Pentecost represent the light of divine Truth and the fire of divine Love!
The apostles possessed the Authority of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit in their persons! Acts 1:8 2 Jn 1:12
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