how many people will take the mark of beast . I believe no one will take it

[john darling]

here are more examples of the spiritual meaning of the biblical words "buy" and "sell":

Matthew 13:44 "the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.",

Hi JCitoL. Thanks for posting some clarification on how you arrived at the conclusion that "buy and sell" isn't really talking about what we do with money or material goods. However, I think your evidence doesn't really support that. The examples you've given talk about actual buying and selling. For example, you listed Matthew 13:44, a parable which describes a man's reaction to the value of salvation. The pearl is eternal life. The man didn't buy eternal life, but he notice that he didn't haggle over the price of the field. All his possessions and everything he owned was nothing compared to the tremendous value of the pearl. He immediately sold all of it. This is precisely what Jesus commanded any one who would follow him to do (Luke 14:33). His early followers did this (Luke 5:11, Luke 5:28, Luke 18:28). Eventually thousands of his followers did this, even after he wasn't around anymore (Acts 2:45-46 and Acts 4:34-35).

In Luke 12:33 he talks about selling actual, material wealth in order to gain "treasure in heaven". If we hang on to material wealth we don't get the spiritual wealth. In Luke 12:15 he tells us to beware of greed, because life consists of more than the things we are able to own. He then tells a story about a rich man who hoards material wealth. The rich man dies and all his material wealth is counted for nothing. God plainly declares the man to be a fool, then Jesus finishes the parable with a very literal lesson that anyone, in this life, who puts their trust in material wealth will be the same as the rich fool from the parable.

These are examples of people literally applying the spiritual lesson found in Matthew 13:44, which very much deals with actual money/materialism.

In other words, I agree very much that there are definite spiritaul lessons when it comes to money, materialism, buying, and selling, but I don't think we should use spritiualized interpretations to explain away the very real warnings about our dependence on money/materialism.

Matthew 21:12-13 "And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers(i.e. of the cashiers that sold (ostensibly) holy services performed by the relevant jews/pharisees there), and the seats of them that sold doves(i.e. that sold occult services for pacification performed by certain esotericists among the jews), And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves(i.e. a devilish den)."

here(as to the last passage) the money is really a critical factor, because if the holy services are performed only for (a lot of) money/against (a solid) payment, then only the rich will be able to afford them, while the poor will not and so they will be kind of doomed to suffer, etc.

I think these comments highlight the problem I see in your attempts to explain away the warnings (regarding the Mark) against a very real dependence on materialism. You say that Jesus was upset because people were charging too much for Holy services; the Holy services should have been much cheaper so that the poor could also afford them.

In other words, you don't see any problem with payment for Holy services, but only that the services should be affordable. Can you explain your understanding of what these Holy services were and how much you think Jesus would have been fine for people to charge? Like, what price for these Holy services do you think Jesus would have been okay with?

don't be lost in the jungle of the human speculations and misbeliefs

I've responded specifically to several of the Bible verses you've posted about money. Now I'd like you to comment on some of the verses I've posted, from Jesus, where he comments specifically on money, forsaking possessions, selling all, etc... He made some very clear statements regarding our dependence on materialism. Do you think he meant what he said?

 

[JCitoL]

I'm going to presume, that since you speak a lot about chakras and that side of the coin, that perhaps you are not of native english language, and whatever translation devices you might be using aren't getting it done between us. I had no disagreements with your sights, for the most part. So I hope you're translating properly.

and of course

Blessings.

i am not so blind so as not to understand what you and the others mean

Blessings

 

[smaller]

i am not so blind so as not to understand what you and the others mean

Blessings

Good! Then remember: "I had no disagreements with your sights"

 

[JCitoL]

Hi JCitoL. Thanks for posting some clarification on how you arrived at the conclusion that "buy and sell" isn't really talking about what we do with money or material goods. However, I think your evidence doesn't really support that. The examples you've given talk about actual buying and selling. For example, you listed Matthew 13:44, a parable which describes a man's reaction to the value of salvation. The pearl is eternal life. The man didn't buy eternal life, but he notice that he didn't haggle over the price of the field. All his possessions and everything he owned was nothing compared to the tremendous value of the pearl. He immediately sold all of it. This is precisely what Jesus commanded any one who would follow him to do (Luke 14:33). His early followers did this (Luke 5:11, Luke 5:28, Luke 18:28). Eventually thousands of his followers did this, even after he wasn't around anymore (Acts 2:45-46 and Acts 4:34-35).

In Luke 12:33 he talks about selling actual, material wealth in order to gain "treasure in heaven". If we hang on to material wealth we don't get the spiritual wealth. In Luke 12:15 he tells us to beware of greed, because life consists of more than the things we are able to own. He then tells a story about a rich man who hoards material wealth. The rich man dies and all his material wealth is counted for nothing. God plainly declares the man to be a fool, then Jesus finishes the parable with a very literal lesson that anyone, in this life, who puts their trust in material wealth will be the same as the rich fool from the parable.

These are examples of people literally applying the spiritual lesson found in Matthew 13:44, which very much deals with actual money/materialism.

In other words, I agree very much that there are definite spiritaul lessons when it comes to money, materialism, buying, and selling, but I don't think we should use spritiualized interpretations to explain away the very real warnings about our dependence on money/materialism.

I think these comments highlight the problem I see in your attempts to explain away the warnings (regarding the Mark) against a very real dependence on materialism. You say that Jesus was upset because people were charging too much for Holy services; the Holy services should have been much cheaper so that the poor could also afford them.

In other words, you don't see any problem with payment for Holy services, but only that the services should be affordable. Can you explain your understanding of what these Holy services were and how much you think Jesus would have been fine for people to charge? Like, what price for these Holy services do you think Jesus would have been okay with?

I've responded specifically to several of the Bible verses you've posted about money. Now I'd like you to comment on some of the verses I've posted, from Jesus, where he comments specifically on money, forsaking possessions, selling all, etc... He made some very clear statements regarding our dependence on materialism. Do you think he meant what he said?

there are no such words and concepts "material" and "materialism" in the biblical scriptures at all, but you are just influenced by the wave of the yogic and hindu creeds that are very modern now, which is also evident from your profile picture(avatar) - the human in a yogic position and process of yoga meditation:

the biblical scriptures are spiritual books about the spiritual things:

1 Corinthians 2:12-13 "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

Jesus talked about the difference between righteousness and unrighteousness, because if you can help someone unto abundant and everlasting life in the true Lord God, but don't do it, then you may turn out to be unrighteous in the eyes of God so, so from this veiwpoint there are two kinds of believers, the ones that are poor in spirit and pure in heart(Matthew 5:3-12), and the others that have of the "riches" of the human(unrighteous) religion/spirituality and whose hearts are unclean, because if you as a believer for example believe that only the people who are such and such believers deserve to be saved and/or will be saved unto abundant and everlasting life in the true Lord God, then you will thus kind of doom the others to suffer/die/go to hell, and you will also be unrighteous in the eyes of God so, that is why such beliefs/persuasions are kind of (spiritual) "riches" of the kingdom(system) of (some) human(666) religion/spirituality, here is one example of such a worshiper:

Luke 18:18-30 "And a certain ruler(i.e. a certain jew) asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother(i.e. you know the ten/Holy commandments, because you are a jew and follower/worshiper of the jews' religion). And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast(i.e. forsake all "riches" i.e. beliefs/persuasions of the human(666) religions/spirituality that you still follow/support, i.e. that make you treat some people badly), and distribute unto the poor(i.e. and start to show perfect mercy to all human beings, but primarily beginning from the most needy/necessitous to(wards) the less), and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me(i.e. because I am the only true Lord/Christ). And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich(i.e. because he was very enriched by the riches of the human religion/spirituality, i.e. he was already very acquainted with/used/accustomed/habituated to the pharisaic spiritual/religious tradition). And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches(i.e. those that do not stop to follow/support the misbeliefs of the human religion) enter into the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye(i.e. because it is easier for a man who doesn't dare to think he knows something about the spiritual to enter into the kingdom of "heaven" through its most narrow opening), than for a rich man(i.e. than for such a rich man) to enter into the kingdom of God. And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved(i.e. if it is not possible even for greatest worshipers of the religion to enter into the kingdom of "heaven", then who can be saved at all)? And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God. Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee. And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house(i.e. sect/human religion), or parents(i.e. and spiritual fathers/teachers/leaders thereof), or brethren(i.e. and brothers in faith thereof), or wife(i.e. and doctrine thereof), or children(i.e. and disciples thereof), for the kingdom of God's(i.e. for the kingdom of the true God's) sake, Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting."

do you see now the difference between spiritual and spiritual?!, while the difference between physical and physical is dumb, because what if you have no physical riches, and having all the "riches" of the human(666) religion/spirituality, even if you reach the last/peak chakra/level of yoga, you cannot and do not have That Who really is the true Lord God?!

1 Corinthians 13:3 "though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned(i.e. give myself to all kinds of sacrifices/rite), and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing."

Blessings

 

[john darling]

there are no such words and concepts "material" and "materialism" in the biblical scriptures at all, but you are just influenced by the wave of the yogic and hindu creeds that are very modern now, which is also evident from your profile picture(avatar) - the human in a yogic position and process of yoga meditation:

The word "materialism" isn't found in the Bible and on that basis you're prepared to disregard all these teachings from Jesus about money and our dependence on material possessions? It really does sound like you've decided your personal theory is more important than what Jesus (or the prophecy) actually says. The prophecy talks about buying and selling, but because you don't know how to reconcile that information with the idea that the Mark is a Hindu symbol you've decided that buying/selling doesn't really mean buying/selling.

I think your comments about my avatar show that you're really just looking for anything which conforms to your theory. Anyway, if it ever comes to a time when you can't buy or sell without a microchip in the hand, please do consider it very carefully before you take it.

 

[dianegcook]

well there might be some foolish people who will but i dont take them into considiration might be one or two

I did not read all the post, , I know. Lol.
But to me it means ones belief.
Mark in their forehead, mind, and right hand, their works.
As the seal of God in ones forehead, mind.
What Mark?
Symbolic
Was this a woman, or symbolic of the deception?
Rev.17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery Babylon, the great, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth.
The unwise virgin.
Christ comes back for His virgin bride, and found some to be harlots.
Deceived and laid up with the false one.
Spiritually speaking.
Babylon meaning confusion.

 

[smaller]

I did not read all the post, , I know. Lol.
But to me it means ones belief.
Mark in their forehead, mind, and right hand, their works.
As the seal of God in ones forehead, mind.
What Mark?
Symbolic
Was this a woman, or symbolic of the deception?
Rev.17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery Babylon, the great, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth.
The unwise virgin.
Christ comes back for His virgin bride, and found some to be harlots.
Deceived and laid up with the false one.
Spiritually speaking.
Babylon meaning confusion.

Neither the SEAL of Holy Spirit OR the mark of the beast, is physically observable. We might even say the mark of the beast is MISSING the Mark of Scripture.

 

[JCitoL]

The word "materialism" isn't found in the Bible and on that basis you're prepared to disregard all these teachings from Jesus about money and our dependence on material possessions? It really does sound like you've decided your personal theory is more important than what Jesus (or the prophecy) actually says. The prophecy talks about buying and selling, but because you don't know how to reconcile that information with the idea that the Mark is a Hindu symbol you've decided that buying/selling doesn't really mean buying/selling.

I think your comments about my avatar show that you're really just looking for anything which conforms to your theory. Anyway, if it ever comes to a time when you can't buy or sell without a microchip in the hand, please do consider it very carefully before you take it.

the Lord, Jesus Christ, talks about the wrong beliefs, because here is how if some worshiper had/has believed in a misbelief, the same turned/turns out to be a slave of that belief, for example, even you, like many other worshipers of e.g. the yogic/hindu religions, has believed in the very suspicious persuasion that ostensibly the material possession is the cause of the sufferings, when really it is not so, and here is how you now are not only ready but even try to convince everyone here of that, at the same time, you do not think that every thing is (composed of) some matter, even the Holy Spirit in addition to the "heaven(ly things)" - if something exists, then it is certain that thing is/consists of (some) material, that's why there is talk of "word"(i.e. the root of the nascent things), God, "Light", "water"(i.e. the primordial substance), "darkness"(i.e. the negative aspect/side of the divine(spiritual)), etc. about the genesis of everything shown in the biblical scriptures, but let's take a look at this from its other side, how is it possible that every person forsake all its money, property, profession, and job, what will the people eat, wear and dwell in at all if there is no even one to work anything and (to) give means to and provide the poor with (the) essentials?! - such a belief/persuasion is even dumb, and let's make a brief overview of the resultant situation of the native people of yoga and hinduism, they are still the most degraded people of the world just as they have suffered from all kinds of greatest degradation for the last millennia, even from greatest spiritual degradation, don't you/how can't you see that the average hindu lives no more than 30-40 years suffering from all kinds of troubles throughout its life, and this is because of that their greatest spiritual iniquity/lawlessness in the form of greatest idolatry and deepest occultism under which at least most of them were slaves until now, only some people have had the chance to be kings of that "egypt", while most hindus were shudras(slaves of all others), and they were brutally exploited, if you do not believe this, read these articles and you will ascertain it alone: http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...oes-one-religion-bear-so-many-villains.55174/

Blessings

 

[john darling]

But to me it means ones belief.
Mark in their forehead, mind, and right hand, their works.
As the seal of God in ones forehead, mind.
What Mark?
Symbolic

Was this a woman, or symbolic of the deception?
Rev.17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery Babylon, the great, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth.
The unwise virgin.
Christ comes back for His virgin bride, and found some to be harlots.
Deceived and laid up with the false one.
Spiritually speaking.
Babylon meaning confusion.

Hi Diane. Thanks for sharing those comments. I think it's fine that you didn't read the whole thread (I do that too!).

Besides, I think you're the first person to mention this interpretation so far on this thread. The difference between God's seal and the Mark of the Beast is that one is the real thing while the other is the counterfeit. God's Mark is spiritual in that it is a Mark of spiritual characteristics. The description of the 144k (whom the seal of God is given to) are described (among other things) as having "no guile" in their mouths; they are extremely sincere. Also, they are those who "follow the lamb withersoever he goeth". These are people who are willing to do anything God tells them to do. They don't haggle. They don't argue. They don't excuse or explain away. They just do what Jesus tells them to do.

One area where people argue the most when it comes to obedience to Jesus is materialism. Physical posessions. Money and the things money can buy. Jesus said A LOT about our relationship to money. He repeatedly talked about forsaking all (Luke 14:33), working for love vs money (Matthew 6:24), how the riches, cares and pleasures of this life choke faith (Luke 8:14), being aware of covetousness because life is more than the things we possess (Luke 12:15), etc. This message is repeated in various ways althroughout the gospels. Jesus taught that the only reason we work should be for God's kingdom of love. Freely we have received, freely we should give (Matthew 10:8). We should share with our brothers and sisters according to every person's need (Acts 2:45). There are many ways to ACT on these teachings in practical life, but these teachings constitute some of the most basic principles in God's Kingdom. Acting on these teachings means forsaking the values of the world, because they are opposites.

We can't say we love our brother if we only help him because he pays us. This is a scary thought for most of us. We don't trust our brothers and sisters (mostly strangers to us) to help us just because they want to because we can see that the whole world is dominated by the God of buy and sell. We fear that if we were to stop working for money in preference to working for love we'd be abused and end up starving. We'd be complete and utter fools to abandon our only visible means of support; i.e. mammon. This is where all the aforementioned haggling comes in. Rather than "follow the lamb withersoever he goeth" we claim to follow the lamb but put all our trust in the systems of Man (i.e. the idea that money makes the world go round).

And of course, the Mark prophecy describes the purpose of the Mark of the Beast as being used to control buying/selling. It is an attempt to exploit our fears about money so that we never get around to trusting in God's ways of sharing and love. We will always force payment because we are afraid of staving if we do not. The Mark represents a counterfeit of God's system, in the same way that the prostitute is the counterfeit of the Bride.

The prostitute promises love, but only in exchange for money. The bride isn't interested in money. She serves the husband because she loves him. Buying/selling vs love. The prostitute vs the Bride. The themes are consistent throughout the NT. Have a look at the description of Babylon the harlot from Revelation 18. Verse 9 likens "living deliciously" (i.e. wealthy living) to fornication (Remember the parable of Lazarus and the rich man? Luke 16:19-31). Verse 11 says the merchants will weep for her destruction because she won't have any more merchandise to sell. Verses 12-14 are a list of various material goods in which she traded. Verse 15 references the merchants again and on and on with the same kind of descriptions. It all centers around our desire for and worship of physical possessions or "mammon" which is money and the things money can buy. All these things are likened to "fornication", not of the physical kind, but spiritually, because running after all these physical things is opposite to the values of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Anyway, in conclusion, the Seal of God is a spiritual Mark of our willingness to let go of all these physical things and follow the lamb "whithersoever he goeth" whereas the Mark of the Beast is the counterfeit, teaching us to instead put our faith in physical things that money can buy. In this context it makes sense that the Seal will be a spirital thing whilst the Beast's Mark will be a physical thing (though not necessarily plainly visible since it will most likely be under the skin for most people).

 

[john darling]

even you, like many other worshipers of e.g. the yogic/hindu religions, has believed in the very suspicious persuasion that ostensibly the material possession is the cause of the sufferings,

When you're ready to deal with the quotes I posted from Jesus about our dependence on money and the things money can buy, let me know.

 

[smaller]

When you're ready to deal with the quotes I posted from Jesus about our dependence on money and the things money can buy, let me know.

If faith had anything to do with money, I'd have quit faith long ago, and just went for the money, were they related.

The temple of the RICH MAN (Solomon) in Israel was both built and destroyed by Divine Intentions. The nation of Israel was divided, deceived and destroyed by "prosperity."

And the people of God were carried, subsequently INTO BABYLON, into captivity.

It was from Divine Intentional Captivity, that they were released from, and built their "lesser latter house" which was MORE glorious in the Eyes of God.

Haggai 2:9
The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the Lord of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the Lord of hosts.

It is to the lesser house, that God Blesses, with His Peace.

 

[JCitoL]

When you're ready to deal with the quotes I posted from Jesus about our dependence on money and the things money can buy, let me know.

which of the ten and the two greatest commandments tells you to get rid of/forsake all money and property?!, what if you have no money and property, but cannot cast the devilish spirits out of the possessed, heal the sick, recover the lame/invalid, resurrect the dead, and preach the true gospel/word of the true God, while another, who has money and property, casts the devilish spirits out of the possessed, heals the sick, recovers the lame/invalid, and preaches the true gospel/word of the true Lord God, because his faith is right?!, do you know that the "gold" represents the vainglory, the "silver" - the satanic/human wisdom, while the "brass" - the devilish/unclean bliss?! - this is one of the possible answers to your question about Matthew 10:9 (or as Saint Paul says in 1 Cor 3:11-13), one thing is the covetousness, while another is the means for providing the life that the true God has made exactly for this purpose:

1 Timothy 4:1-11 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron(i.e. defiled with occult powers of idolatry); Forbidding to marry(i.e. the sex life), and commanding to abstain from meats(i.e. consumptions), which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving(i.e. to be used for good purposes) of them which believe and know the truth(i.e. and also of those who understand the truth). For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving(i.e. if it is used for good purpose(s)): For it is sanctified by the word of God(i.e. by the work of the Holy Spirit) and prayer(i.e. and the prayers of the true Saints). If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. But refuse profane and old wives' fables(i.e. refuse the defiling(profane) and the morally obsolete(outdated) creeds of the world), and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach."

and how do you imagine to forsake everything and (to) go living on the street without money, food, shelter, covers, etc.?!, and what will the profit so be if you do it?!, i can remember many such worshipers from my city who abandoned everything and became poor homeless, but did not succeed to do the works of Jesus and His true disciples shown in the Bible, because for some reason it turned out that it's not given to them to fare like the Holy Apostles, that is why it's written:

1 Corinthians 12:28-31 "God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.",

Ephesians 4:10-16 "He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."

Blessings

 

[john darling]

Friend just sent me this pic. This kind of cashless technology is becoming more popular; tap-and-pay with the hand. I posted something very similar to this gadget in post #7, when Barclays bank released a new series of gadgets for tap-and-pay payment including a wrist band, sticker, and key chain all using microchip technology to process the transaction. I don't think these things are the Mark itself, but they are powerful evidence of a global move towards cashless payment methods involving the hand (or forehead, possibly for amputees or perhaps people who will eventaully see it as an interesting fashion trend).

 

[john darling]

And the people of God were carried, subsequently INTO BABYLON, into captivity.

An intersting point about the prostitute in Revelation 18 being named "Babylon" is that the Kingdom of Babylon, from history, practically invented money in the form of large gold bars with which they traded. The benefit of being able to trade gold bars instead for 500,000 goats as opposed to carrying around a million chickens quickly caught on. As these large gold bars became more popular they eventually became smaller and smaller (enabling flexibility for much smaller purchases) until they resembled what we'd now recognize as coins (of various shapes and sizes).

Eventually the coins were made from metals of less value (like silver, bronze etc). After that, paper money, then cheques, credit cards, smart cards (using microchips), internet banking, phone banking, wristband banking, watch banking and finally microchip implant (in the hand/forehead) banking.

All along the way the shape of money has changed forms while the basic concept has stayed the same; payment for service as opposed to service for love. To me, it seems a fascinating crossover that the Kingdom which is credited as having invented money is also referenced in the Revelation as a prostitute who promises love while really only being interested in money (Revelation 18).

 

[smaller]

An intersting point about the prostitute in Revelation 18 being named "Babylon" is that the Kingdom of Babylon, from history, practically invented money in the form of large gold bars with which they traded. The benefit of being able to trade gold bars instead for 500,000 goats as opposed to carrying around a million chickens quickly caught on. As these large gold bars became more popular they eventually became smaller and smaller (enabling flexibility for much smaller purchases) until they resembled what we'd now recognize as coins (of various shapes and sizes).

Eventually the coins were made from metals of less value (like silver, bronze etc). After that, paper money, then cheques, credit cards, smart cards (using microchips), internet banking, phone banking, wristband banking, watch banking and finally microchip implant (in the hand/forehead) banking.

All along the way the shape of money has changed forms while the basic concept has stayed the same; payment for service as opposed to service for love. To me, it seems a fascinating crossover that the Kingdom which is credited as having invented money is also referenced in the Revelation as a prostitute who promises love while really only being interested in money (Revelation 18).

I've been reading these various "end time" angles for decades now, regarding the buying selling aspect of the mark of the beast.

What I would observe to any "end time" observer of scripture, is to look to the parties that are not seen. End time quotients on the adverse side of the ledgers are "entirely" about the end of the devil and his messengers. Their activity are the matters to observe from scriptures.

THEIR end is what is prophesied about from cover to cover, from the LIPS of the Prophets, speaking Gods Conveyances in these matters.

Looking at people and money ain't capable of getting at the heart of the matters, because a good portion deals with parties we do not see.

Simple enough?

Isaiah 27:1
In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Any "end time" accounting that is missing these parties, and their activity, is categorically FALSE.

 

[ezrider]

Hi Ezrider. I'm not sure I understand your meaning. Would you mind clarifying? Thanks. Also, how are you relating it to the topic of the Mark of the Beast? Do you have anything to share about the "buying and selling" part of the Mark prophecy?

Hello John,

Before I respond with a little more detail on this matter, I would ask if you have actually taken the time to read any of my other posts on this matter? I would be happy to try and clarify these things so that you might understand that which I am speaking of, but I do not believe that you are ready for such things. These are spiritual matters that need to be understood, but as long as you continue to look at these thing from the perspective of your flesh and the things that you see in the world, then it will remain hidden to you.


So I will only say this for now, and if you can not receive this, then there is no more reason for me to try and help you understand.

The "Image of the Beast" that he causes you to worship is in fact the image of Jesus hanging upon the cross. The image of His Death.

 

[JCitoL]

Friend just sent me this pic. This kind of cashless technology is becoming more popular; tap-and-pay with the hand. I posted something very similar to this gadget in post #7, when Barclays bank released a new series of gadgets for tap-and-pay payment including a wrist band, sticker, and key chain all using microchip technology to process the transaction. I don't think these things are the Mark itself, but they are powerful evidence of a global move towards cashless payment methods involving the hand (or forehead, possibly for amputees or perhaps people who will eventaully see it as an interesting fashion trend).

http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/flower_mt628/media/pay by watch_zps5wnikqld.jpg.html

and what of it?!, it is just a modern payment method, no one forces you and the others to use it, moreover, one must have enough money to pay for it, in my town there is an option for credit card payment in any store, but it passes slower than the cash payment, and for this reason, as well as for others, most people (prefer to) pay in cash, while one in ten/twenty pays by credit card, yet no one has a power to make all pay not in cash but by another method, furthermore, no one will have a profit to make another use a credit card or another modern method of payment if the "payer" has no enough money to afford it - and nevertheless what does the payment (method) have to do with the faith?!, if you let some guru/false prophet install his devilish spirits and heresies in your body and mind, then the payment (method), regardless of whether or not you (will) (make) use (of) some, will not matter

2 Peter 2:1-3 "there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping."

Blessings

 

[smaller]

if you let some guru/false prophet install his devilish spirits and heresies in your body and mind, then the payment (method), regardless of whether or not you (will) (make) use (of) some, will not matter

There appears to be at least 3 of us saying nearly the same things to John Darling. No, it's not about the cash.

 

[john darling]

Any "end time" accounting that is missing these parties, and their activity, is categorically FALSE.

Hi Smaller. There is a reason why posts are seperated in to topics. I understand that some themes can be connected to quite a larger body of information. However, sometimes we want to discuss a specific piece of the picture. That's what I'm doing with the Mark of the beast.

But as for leaving bits out of the picture, have you never read the scriptures, "The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes" (Psalm 118:22)?

The stone is Jesus and his teachings (Compare Matthew 7:24-29 with Isaiah 28:16). Jesus describes obedience to his teachings as a strong foundation and Isaiah also mentions this cornerstone as a sure foundation. Peter references this same stone as a stone of stumbling to those who are disobedient, rejecting the stone through their disobedience. He says, "to those who believe, the stone is precious, but to those who are disobedient, it is a rock of offence to them".

Relating it to the topic, the Mark of the Beast prophecy clearly says the purpose of the Mark will be to exploit our fear and dependence on mammon (money and the things money can buy). Rather than work for brotherly love, the Mark represents our work for the worldly system of the beast where, like the prostitute, we only show our love for payment. People who believe they cannot live without money will take the Mark. Because they have rejected the cornerstone they do not have any faith in an invisible God who will provide for them so they have no concept of any need to reject the Mark. Their theology comes from God, but their time, skill, loyalty and trust for their daily bread comes from the Beast's system of buy and sell, or, as Jesus put it, "this people draw nigh to me with their lips but their heart is far from me" (Matthew 15:8).

The love of money is the root of all evil and the heart is deceitful above all things. Both Jesus, his followers, and the Mark prophecy clearly show there is a problem with our dependence on materialism, but people refuse to see it becasue of that same dependence. As the saying goes, "it is difficult to convince a man of something when his job depends on him not being convinced". This is precisely why the Mark will be so popular; they will not see it as the Mark. They will see it as just another way to buy their daily bread.

 

[john darling]

There appears to be at least 3 of us saying nearly the same things to John Darling. No, it's not about the cash.

Sorry smaller, but you really did walk right into this one...

MT 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

MT 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.