how many people will take the mark of beast . I believe no one will take it

[JCitoL]

There appears to be at least 3 of us saying nearly the same things to John Darling. No, it's not about the cash.

the boy maybe don't know some things and is influenced by some modern religious/spiritual views that are incorrect and misleading - the world is now full of such traditions, and that's why there have been so many misguided people over the last decades and centuries, from the other hand, it is really so that the attachment to certain possessions could hamper the spiritual growth of the worshiper under certain circumstances, but for this reason there are teachings of Christ that give us to understand how to avoid the deception/delusion, because, as many people said/say, corruption begins at the top, and, fish begins to stink at the head

Blessings

 

[john darling]

and what of it?!, it is just a modern payment method,

Ahh, I just noticed this comment from JCitoL. It's exactly what I was just saying in response to smaller. It's in reference to a pic I posted of a woman using a smart watch on her wrist to pay for her travel fee on a subway (in the UK, I think). I don't think it's THE Mark, but it's certainly getting much closer to what the prophecy describes about a "mark" on the hand used for buying and selling.

Wristbands, watches, phone banking etc...all these methods are moving closer and closer to a global economic system where people buy via electronic transactions. The single world currency is slowly becoming the chip which processes the transactions. Eventually these microchips will be placed in the hand. Look at the history of money; it's always changing it's shape.

And no one will need to physically force anyone to take the mark. Circumstances and a lack of faith will be all the pressure most people in the world need. If you want to eat, pay the rent, put fuel in the car etc, then you will take the microchip. As more and more businesses switch over to the benefits of a cashless economy, physical cash will become obsolete. They will simply stop accepting it because they won't be using cash registers anymore.

So, getting back to JCitoL's comment. It's an indicator of just how dry the tree is becoming. The prophecy predicts a "mark" in the hand for buying selling and that all the world will conform to this economy (Revelation 13:16). This was written nearly 2000 years ago. The concept of a global, cashless economy would have been unthinkable. Now, it's actually starting to happen and Christians around the world say, "so what". No wonder so many professing Christians will end up taking it.

 

[john darling]

it is really so that the attachment to certain possessions could hamper the spiritual growth of the worshiper under certain circumstances,

Hi JCitoL. Thanks for sharing this. Can you give some examples of these circumstances?

but for this reason there are teachings of Christ that give us to understand how to avoid the deception/delusion

Excellent. Can you please reference the teachings Jesus gave on how to avoid the deception/delusion of attachment to material possessions?

 

[smaller]

Hi Smaller. There is a reason why posts are seperated in to topics. I understand that some themes can be connected to quite a larger body of information. However, sometimes we want to discuss a specific piece of the picture. That's what I'm doing with the Mark of the beast.

I don't doubt for one minute, that the real spiritual battles that we are all engaged in, reflect in the flesh. Nay, they certainly are. That does not mean however that any external flesh view has a good look at what is really transpiring, behind the curtains. I would not propose for a moment however that any "external matter" is the mark, as the mark is in fact already internal.

But as for leaving bits out of the picture, have you never read the scriptures, "The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes" (Psalm 118:22)?

The stone is Jesus and his teachings (Compare Matthew 7:24-29 with Isaiah 28:16). Jesus describes obedience to his teachings as a strong foundation and Isaiah also mentions this cornerstone as a sure foundation. Peter references this same stone as a stone of stumbling to those who are disobedient, rejecting the stone through their disobedience. He says, "to those who believe, the stone is precious, but to those who are disobedient, it is a rock of offence to them".

There are two works where the Stone is, and both of these works do transpire in those who fall upon Him:

Matthew 21:44
And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

In practical application, this falling upon Him, the Rock, the Stone, is us broken from Satan's holding power. But, simultaneously, Satan is in fact ground to powder. Both sides of these Words, apply to us.

They say in the world that justice grinds slow, but it grinds fine. I might say The Grinding of Jesus upon Satan, is similar, over the course of time.

Relating it to the topic, the Mark of the Beast prophecy clearly says the purpose of the Mark will be to exploit our fear and dependence on mammon (money and the things money can buy).

There is certainly no shortage of manipulations from the world of evil, that is certain. It is however from the cries of peace and prosperity, that the end is close. So, I might expect that people will not be filled with fear, but with joy, a quite worldly joy, that will fail, utterly.

Rather than work for brotherly love, the Mark represents our work for the worldly system of the beast where, like the prostitute, we only show our love for payment. People who believe they cannot live without money will take the Mark. Because they have rejected the cornerstone they do not have any faith in an invisible God who will provide for them so they have no concept of any need to reject the Mark. Their theology comes from God, but their time, skill, loyalty and trust for their daily bread comes from the Beast's system of buy and sell, or, as Jesus put it, "this people draw nigh to me with their lips but their heart is far from me" (Matthew 15:8).

There are quite a lot of believers that are milling about, waiting for some kinds of big external exclamation points, like some external mark of the beast for example, whereby, when they think they see some "sign of the end" that they can then rise to battle in resistance to. To me, this is just more satanic deception. The world will be plugging along in it's ways, right to the end. It will be, in essence, a SURPRISE, the end that is. For those who are looking to see somethings, external. The Kingdom we are to observe for is not a Kingdom seen, or visible. Whatever the other, wicked kingdom does, does what it always does and has done, from the beginning.

There will be no external harbinger bell of warning. I might even expect the opposite. That real external prosperity will put most to more and deeper, spiritual sleep and slumber.

The love of money is the root of all evil and the heart is deceitful above all things. Both Jesus, his followers, and the Mark prophecy clearly show there is a problem with our dependence on materialism, but people refuse to see it becasue of that same dependence. As the saying goes, "it is difficult to convince a man of something when his job depends on him not being convinced". This is precisely why the Mark will be so popular; they will not see it as the Mark. They will see it as just another way to buy their daily bread.

The mark of the beast has been in the world for a long time. It is found upon and within everyone who does not love their neighbors as themselves. This is the mark of the spiritually lawless upon their hearts.

 

[john darling]

The "Image of the Beast" that he causes you to worship is in fact the image of Jesus hanging upon the cross. The image of His Death.

It's okay EZrider. Thanks for your explanation but I'd rather continue discussing the Mark of the Beast on this particular thread. A thread on the Image of the beast could be interesting if you wanted to start one.

 

[smaller]

I might even suggest that the very worst mark that one can have and bear, is the MARK OF HYPOCRISY, which same Jesus showed and openly Declared, that He Utterly Detested.

Were I searching for "marks" I would not care to have, that would be the first place I'd look by prior examples, given by Jesus.

Jeremiah 2:22
For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord God.

There is no more hatred of God available, than to a liar.

Matthew 23:28
Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Does it get any worse than FULL?

 

[ezrider]

It's okay EZrider. Thanks for your explanation but I'd rather continue discussing the Mark of the Beast on this particular thread. A thread on the Image of the beast could be interesting if you wanted to start one.

The mark of the beast that you are marked with is the death of Christ; His crucifixion. It is the Mark of Death. For ALL have been marked by his death. Some will rise to the resurrection of everlasting life, while the rest will rise to the resurrection of damnation & death (John 5:29).
They still continue on following after the Covenant with Death (ie. the old covenant, the covenant with Moses).

Isaiah 28:15-18
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death,
and with hell are we at agreement;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us:
for we have made lies our refuge,
and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Therefore thus saith the Lord God,
Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone,
a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation:
he that believeth shall not make haste.
Judgment also will I lay to the line,
and righteousness to the plummet:
and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies,
and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
And your covenant with death shall be disannulled,
and your agreement with hell shall not stand;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through,
then ye shall be trodden down by it.


Galatians 6:17
From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.


The beast keeps you bound under the old covenant as you worship the image of a man hung upon a cross so that you would continue to use the blood of his sacrifice over and over again to cover and cleanse your sins; But then keeps you blinded to the promises that Christ has delivered on when He established and confirmed the New Covenant in His Blood. A covenant for everlasting life, but instead they serve death.

 

[JCitoL]

Ahh, I just noticed this comment from JCitoL. It's exactly what I was just saying in response to smaller. It's in reference to a pic I posted of a woman using a smart watch on her wrist to pay for her travel fee on a subway (in the UK, I think). I don't think it's THE Mark, but it's certainly getting much closer to what the prophecy describes about a "mark" on the hand used for buying and selling.

Wristbands, watches, phone banking etc...all these methods are moving closer and closer to a global economic system where people buy via electronic transactions. The single world currency is slowly becoming the chip which processes the transactions. Eventually these microchips will be placed in the hand. Look at the history of money; it's always changing it's shape.

And no one will need to physically force anyone to take the mark. Circumstances and a lack of faith will be all the pressure most people in the world need. If you want to eat, pay the rent, put fuel in the car etc, then you will take the microchip. As more and more businesses switch over to the benefits of a cashless economy, physical cash will become obsolete. They will simply stop accepting it because they won't be using cash registers anymore.

So, getting back to JCitoL's comment. It's an indicator of just how dry the tree is becoming. The prophecy predicts a "mark" in the hand for buying selling and that all the world will conform to this economy (Revelation 13:16). This was written nearly 2000 years ago. The concept of a global, cashless economy would have been unthinkable. Now, it's actually starting to happen and Christians around the world say, "so what". No wonder so many professing Christians will end up taking it.

and is there a greater mark of the beast than the commitment to and the participation in the activity of the system of spiritual iniquity/lawlessness?!, first, what is the "beast"?!, it is one of the main inanimate manifestations of the "darkness", the triune spirit that the hindus and yogins call "sat-cit-ananda" is actually the three main misleading manifestations(inanimate spirits) of the "darkness", which are shown in the biblical book Revelation as "dragon"(Rev 12:3-4), "beast"(Rev 13:1-10), and "another beast"(Rev 13:11-18) - these three inanimate spirits of the "darkness" are actually the so-called "sat", "cit", and "ananda", and there are 7 main devilish spirits called "7 chakras":

Matthew 12:43-45 "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places(i.e. it passes through places that are uninhabitable to it), seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished(i.e. and when it went, if it finds that "house" full of spiritual unrighteousness, iniquity, and wickedness). Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation(i.e. it will be so to the generation of the spiritual/occult people that commit spiritual iniquity/lawlessness).",

Revelation 12:3 "there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.",

Revelation 13:1 "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."

there are also ten high devilish spirits based on the seven main - also known as 8th, 9th and 10th chakras, which are the "ten horns" shown in Rev 12:3 and 13:1, and on top of that there are also two highest devilish spirits, also known as 11th and 12th chakras, which are the "two horns" of the other(second) beast:

Revelation 13:11 "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

and there are also occult areas/levels of the chakras:

Revelation 17:9-10 "The seven heads are seven mountains(i.e. seven main occult areas/levels), on which the woman sitteth(i.e. on which the system of spiritual iniquity/lawlessness and human(666) religion/spirituality is based). And there are seven kings(i.e. and there are also seven main devilish spirits and chakras):"

they are named and called with different names by the different indic denomination/creeds, but actually they are usually same, for example the vaishnavites(krishnaites/vishnuites) call the areas/levels of the high(er/est) chakras "high(er) abodes" such as: "goloka vrindavana"(which they consider to be the highest area according to their beliefs and terminology), "madhurya dhama", "vaikuntha-loka", "aisvarya dhama", "kailasa", "brahmajyoti", "karana ocean", etc., while the followers/worshipers of surat shabd yoga/sant mat call the same area/levels: "anami/satloka", "sach khand/sat lok", "bhanwar gupta", "maha-sunn", "daswan dwar", "trikuti", etc., also, they call the (high(er/est)) chakras with different names, which are actually the aforementioned devilish spirits, all these things distract the believers/worshipers from the true "Light" and life, because they are the satanic substitutes for the true gates of God manifesting through the occult/idolatrous process e.g. of yoga/hinduism, for there is a true "heaven" of the true God, but there is also false spiritual, namely the occult, which is the so-called "sea" in the Bible, from this viewpoint the worshipers of the "beast" are called "inhabiters of the earth and of the sea"(Rev 12:12), because some of them are rather occult("sea") than ritualistic in the outward(superficial) traditions, while others are more ritualistic("earthy") than deep in the occult process, so sat, cit, and ananda(dragon, beast, and the other beast) are the satanic equivalent(s) of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and there have been, from long ago, even visible spiritual marks of the beast such as painted signs for the (fore)head, and rosaries, astrological bracelets and signs/gestures for the hand, here are some examples of such:

do you see now how exactly the commitment to and the participation in the activity of the system of spiritual iniquity/lawlessness and human(666) religion/spirituality is the mark of the beast(sat-cit-ananda)?!, that's why what is written/shown in the Bible is that the important is the faith to be right enough, because even the spiritual is some kind of matter/material, and for that reason the word "spirituality" just doesn't exist in the biblical scriptures at all, because God is love for the humans i.e. our neighbors, while the spiritual could also turn out to be devilish, because the "darkness" and its manifestations are the negative side of the divine(spiritual), (and) then each of the ten commandments of faith says primarily: do not commit spiritual iniquity/lawlessness in such and such possible way, but no one of them says: become/be a believer/worshiper/cleric...

Blessings

 

[john darling]

The mark of the beast that you are marked with is the death of Christ; His crucifixion.

HI Ezrider. Thanks for sharing that. However, what I see missing from your interpretation is an explanation about the "buy and sell" aspect of the Mark. The prophecy says no one will be able to buy or sell without it. How do you see it working that no one will be able to buy or sell without worshiping an image of the crucifixtiion of Jesus?

This explanation about buying and selling is missing from JCitoL's explnation, too. He dismisses the "buy and sell" phrase on the basis that buy and sell doesn't really mean buy and sell at all. When I asked him to show evidence of that he posted a few Bible verses which referenced actual buying and selling but interpreted them as having nothing to do with buying and selling.

Smaller does the same thing by claiming it's all "sprititual" and therefore nothing to do with buying and selling via a physical mark. It's an explanation which sounds spiritual in itself, but still avoids dealing with what the prophecy actually says about the purpose of the Mark; no buying or selling without it.

Diane's interpretation about "the thoughts we think (mark in the head) and the actions we perfom with our hands (mark in the hand) also did not address the issue of buy and sell. Seventh day adventists believe the Mark will be "Sunday worship" with no explanation about how that relates to buying/selling.

If you search for other various interpretations for the Mark you will find this disregard for the "buy and sell" aspect is the one commonality between them all. Think about that. What possible reason could the Christian world have for avoiding any discussion about their dependence on money and the things money can buy? I'd like to suggest 1 Tim 6:10 as a possible explanation.

 

[ezrider]

HI Ezrider. Thanks for sharing that. However, what I see missing from your interpretation is an explanation about the "buy and sell" aspect of the Mark. The prophecy says no one will be able to buy or sell without it. How do you see it working that no one will be able to buy or sell without worshiping an image of the crucifixtiion of Jesus?

This explanation about buying and selling is missing from JCitoL's explnation, too. He dismisses the "buy and sell" phrase on the basis that buy and sell doesn't really mean buy and sell at all. When I asked him to show evidence of that he posted a few Bible verses which referenced actual buying and selling but interpreted them as having nothing to do with buying and selling.

Smaller does the same thing by claiming it's all "sprititual" and therefore nothing to do with buying and selling via a physical mark. It's an explanation which sounds spiritual in itself, but still avoids dealing with what the prophecy actually says about the purpose of the Mark; no buying or selling without it.

Diane's interpretation about "the thoughts we think (mark in the head) and the actions we perfom with our hands (mark in the hand) also did not address the issue of buy and sell. Seventh day adventists believe the Mark will be "Sunday worship" with no explanation about how that relates to buying/selling.

If you search for other various interpretations for the Mark you will find this disregard for the "buy and sell" aspect is the one commonality between them all. Think about that. What possible reason could the Christian world have for avoiding any discussion about their dependence on money and the things money can buy? I'd like to suggest 1 Tim 6:10 as a possible explanation.

I can see John that you really aren't interested in understanding the truth of things, so I will leave you to fantasize about the traditions and doctrines of men so that you may go live in fear. And when the lion leopard bear looking fallen angel thingy tries to implant you with its baby microchip doowhaha so that you can buy a morsel of meal, and if you should refuse it, will it be by your will? or the Lords? Seems to me if you refuse to take that alien seed mark thingamagigger then will you be trying to overcome by your own will and your own works. Where does that leave you?



No, I started by this discussion with you by stating that you buy and sell by trading in the commodity known as the blood of Christ, But you didn't want to discuss the "buying and selling", you wanted to discuss the mark of the beast. So I proceeded to tell you about the image of the beast that you worship, the image of Jesus hanging upon a cross. But you didn't want to discuss that either, though you thought it interesting, but you didn't think it related to the mark of the beast. So I proceeded to make that connection for you by describing the mark as the crucifixtion and the Death of Christ. But now you do not want to accept that because you cant seem to see how it relates to buying and selling.

Maybe you would like to go back and comment in my post #26 in this thread and comment on how that does not represent your own mythology of buying and selling. http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...no-one-will-take-it.60074/page-2#post-1115057

But until the dog decides to stop chasing it own tail, I shall leave it well there for you. When you tire, the bone lies there on the floor for you to chew on.

 

[Sinthesis]

Jhn 2:13 ¶ And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
Jhn 2:14 - And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
Jhn 2:15 - And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
Jhn 2:16 - And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
Jhn 2:17 - And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.​

Historically what happened was that eventually the 'land beast' was given control over the operation of the Jewish Temple. Thus an observant Jew had the dilemma of either believing/acting in the corrupted ways of their leaders, or else neglecting their religious responsibilities to the temple economy.

 

[JCitoL]

Hi JCitoL. Thanks for sharing this. Can you give some examples of these circumstances?

Excellent. Can you please reference the teachings Jesus gave on how to avoid the deception/delusion of attachment to material possessions?

as for the circumstances, for example if someone turns out to be affected/defiled by the system of (the) spiritual iniquity/lawlessness in some aspect, then the same person will have to be spiritually cleansed/released - there were many such cases of spiritual impingement/impairment that the kingdom of (the) spiritual iniquity/lawlessness caused by bewitching, imprecating, cursing, accusing, judging and dooming certain people before God, for example some people were kind of cursed so as not to be able to eat normally, and there were symptoms such as sickness, nausea, vomiting, hypersensitivity to food, hypoglycemia, etc., other cursed people were not able to live normally at all, because the curse pursued them everywhere and in everything ruining their lives, etc., so from this point of view it would not be advisable for such a human to eat more than it could bear, or to do things when this could be a cause for the devilish spirits to affect it, but, at the same time, the devilish spirits must be cast out of the possessed/affected according to the written and spoken word of the true God

as regards the giving of reference, there are many sermons of the Lord, Jesus, on how to exercise/practice the faith rightly without sinning, but they have nothing to do with the misbelief according to which ostensibly the physical is the problem, when actually it is not so, yet here is one example:

1 Corinthians 7:29-34 "But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none; And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not; And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away. But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife. There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband."

Blessings

 

[smaller]

they are named and called with different names by the different indic denomination/creeds, but actually they are usually same, for example the vaishnavites(krishnaites/vishnuites) call the areas/levels of the high(er/est) chakras "high(er) abodes" such as: "goloka vrindavana"(which they consider to be the highest area according to their beliefs and terminology), "madhurya dhama", "vaikuntha-loka", "aisvarya dhama", "kailasa", "brahmajyoti", "karana ocean", etc., while the followers/worshipers of surat shabd yoga/sant mat call the same area/levels: "anami/satloka", "sach khand/sat lok", "bhanwar gupta", "maha-sunn", "daswan dwar", "trikuti", etc., also, they call the (high(er/est)) chakras with different names, which are actually the aforementioned devilish spirits, all these things distract the believers/worshipers from the true "Light" and life, because they are the satanic substitutes for the true gates of God manifesting through the occult/idolatrous process e.g. of yoga/hinduism, for there is a true "heaven" of the true God, but there is also false spiritual, namely the occult, which is the so-called "sea" in the Bible, from this viewpoint the worshipers of the "beast" are called "inhabiters of the earth and of the sea"(Rev 12:12), because some of them are rather occult("sea") than ritualistic in the outward(superficial) traditions, while others are more ritualistic("earthy") than deep in the occult process, so sat, cit, and ananda(dragon, beast, and the other beast) are the satanic equivalent(s) of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and there have been, from long ago, even visible spiritual marks of the beast such as painted signs for the (fore)head, and rosaries, astrological bracelets and signs/gestures for the hand,
do you see now how exactly the commitment to and the participation in the activity of the system of spiritual iniquity/lawlessness and human(666) religion/spirituality is the mark of the beast(sat-cit-ananda)?!, that's why what is written/shown in the Bible is that the important is the faith to be right enough, because even the spiritual is some kind of matter/material, and for that reason the word "spirituality" just doesn't exist in the biblical scriptures at all, because God is love for the humans i.e. our neighbors, while the spiritual could also turn out to be devilish, because the "darkness" and its manifestations are the negative side of the divine(spiritual), (and) then each of the ten commandments of faith says primarily: do not commit spiritual iniquity/lawlessness in such and such possible way, but no one of them says: become/be a believer/worshiper/cleric...

Blessings

We have very little exposure in the west to such things as you write of above, but I do have a believing friend or two who were shocked out of Buddhism, and into Christ, when they engaged adverse spirits trying to enter them when practicing certain types of Buddhist ritualistic chants/prayers in meditation.

 

[john darling]

And when the lion leopard bear looking fallen angel thingy tries to implant you with its baby microchip doowhaha so that you can buy a morsel of meal, and if you should refuse it, will it be by your will?

Hi Ezrider. I see the warning in the Revelation against the Mark as genuine. We will all have a choice in whether to accept the Mark or reject it. (Revelation 14:9-10) If we didn't have some choice in the matter then it would be pointless to include the location and purpose of the Mark and a warning against taking it.

Seems to me if you refuse to take that alien seed mark thingamagigger then will you be trying to overcome by your own will and your own works. Where does that leave you?

I'm not sure if I've understood you correctly, but it sounds like your suggestion is that one may take the Mark and then argue later that they did so because they didn't want to be guilty of trying to overcome by exercising their own faith?

No, I started by this discussion with you by stating that you buy and sell by trading in the commodity known as the blood of Christ,

I think I do want to understand your position, but something like, "buying and selling by tading in the commodity known as the blood of Christ" really makes no sense to me, not because I don't want to understand but because the context I am referring to is actual buying and selling, as described in the Mark prophecy. It's not clear how you are relating that to the blood of Jesus. Like, without the blood of Jesus we can no longer buy or sell? Because that is how the prophecy is phrased; without the Mark, no one in the world will be able to buy or sell.

So I proceeded to make that connection for you by describing the mark as the crucifixtion and the Death of Christ. But now you do not want to accept that because you cant seem to see how it relates to buying and selling.

Yes, exactly. I feel you have accurately stated my position. Thanks for that. I feel I'm quite willing to see your point of view, but I'm still waiting for some evidence linking Jesus' death on the cross to the buying/selling referred to in the Mark prophecy. You quoted 1 Cor 7:29-34, but even in these verses there must be some action which results from these attitudes or there would be no point. It would be like saying, "believing in God is a spiritual issue, but my beleif in God doesn't change the way I behave because following God is spiritual, not physical". [NOTE: Oops, I just realized the 1 Cor 7 verse was from JCitoL's post! Anyway, I've decided to leave it in since it's relevant to what you were saying about the spiritual vs the physical.]

I suppose the break-down in communication, which has happened with several other people, is the distinction between the physical and the spiritual. I've heard arguments which seem to suggest that the Mark has nothing to do with any physical thing, only spiritual. I suggested earlier that it will be both, in that there are very definite spiritual implications for us concerning our dependence on money.

It's a bit like the Children of Israel wanting a King. Samuel told them it was great wickedness to be wanting a king. When Samuel talked to God about it, God told him they only wanted a human king because they'd already rejected him. God's way was a system of tribal judges but the people wanted something like other kingdoms of the world had. There was a physical aspect (i.e. a human king) which resulted from their spiritual problem (i.e. rejecting God's ways) 1 Sam 8:5-9.

The same spiritual lesson is present in the Mark prophecy. Jesus told us to work for love. But, in their fear and greed people reason to themselves, "love doesn't pay the bills" so they continue serving mammon (Matthew 6:24-34).

 

[john darling]

it is really so that the attachment to certain possessions could hamper the spiritual growth of the worshiper under certain circumstances,

for this reason there are teachings of Christ that give us to understand how to avoid the deception/delusion

hi JC. In an earlier post I asked you for some examples of what this, "attachment" to "certain possessions" actually means. What are these "certain possessions"? How do they "hamper the spiritual growth" of the worshiper and what are these "certain circumstances?

Instead, you respond with things like, "bewitching, imprecating, cursing, accusing, judging and dooming certain people before God, for example some people were kind of cursed so as not to be able to eat normally, and there were symptoms such as sickness, nausea, vomiting, hypersensitivity to food, hypoglycemia, etc., other cursed people were not able to live normally at all, because the curse pursued them everywhere and in everything ruining their lives, etc., so from this point of view it would not be advisable for such a human to eat more than it could bear"

Are you saying that "attachment" to "certain possessions" causes people not to be able to eat properly? Because to me, it sounds like you've not really answered the question at all. The context of your own comments, which I was referring to, was material possessions. I'd still like to hear an explanation which deals specifically with those comments I've quoted from you above. Thanks.

 

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16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

I don't observe any exception to getting the mark. The penalty is invoked for this:

If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Having the mark coupled with worship of the beast seem to be the criteria for penalty. The mark itself though, appears to be universally applied to all.

 

[ezrider]

It's a bit like the Children of Israel wanting a King. Samuel told them it was great wickedness to be wanting a king. When Samuel talked to God about it, God told him they only wanted a human king because they'd already rejected him. God's way was a system of tribal judges but the people wanted something like other kingdoms of the world had. There was a physical aspect (i.e. a human king) which resulted from their spiritual problem (i.e. rejecting God's ways) 1 Sam 8:5-9.

The same spiritual lesson is present in the Mark prophecy. Jesus told us to work for love. But, in their fear and greed people reason to themselves, "love doesn't pay the bills" so they continue serving mammon (Matthew 6:24-34).

And isn't that what much of the "Christian" church waits for. A physical King to return and set up his throne in some stone temple to come and rule over them?

 

[ezrider]

I suppose the break-down in communication, which has happened with several other people, is the distinction between the physical and the spiritual. I've heard arguments which seem to suggest that the Mark has nothing to do with any physical thing, only spiritual. I suggested earlier that it will be both, in that there are very definite spiritual implications for us concerning our dependence on money.

The Spiritual does become manifest in the Physical.

Take for example the baker who refuses to sell the wedding cake to the gay couple. Now the evangelicals rally around the baker and then call for laws that would allow them to legally discriminate in the name of Christ. They have attempted to pass these laws in Ohio and other states as well. They are still bound to their covenant with death.


The woman in the news today, the county clerk from Kentucky who has refused to issue marriage license since the Supreme Court decision on gay marriage. The court has ordered her to issue the marriage licenses, and yet she refuses in the name of her covenant with death. She who stands in opposition to gay marriage because of God's Law as she knows it and the sanctity of marriage as she declares it, but at the same time seems to have no problem with her own marriage issues, for it as been stated allegedly (I have not tried to confirm it because it personally means absolutely nothing to me) that she as been the wife of four husbands, three times divorced. In this case the spiritual aspect of hypocrisy is on full display in the physical and public realm.

Jesus warned you that the manner in which you judge shall be measured out unto you. For this county clerk, fines and jail time await her decision. Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword. Those who judge other according to the covenant of death, will be judged according to their covenant with death.

 

[ezrider]

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

I don't observe any exception to getting the mark. The penalty is invoked for this:

If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Having the mark coupled with worship of the beast seem to be the criteria for penalty. The mark itself though, appears to be universally applied to all.

I agree.

 

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I agree.

I believe we see quite similar on a lot of matters. It's been pleasant.