how many people will take the mark of beast . I believe no one will take it

[JCitoL]

as the Lord, Jesus Christ, also said so:

Mark 12:13-17 "And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words. And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it. And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's. And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him."

so the believers/worshipers/clergy must not rely on money, but the money is just at least a temporary means of living in this world under the hitherto prevailing circumstances, so for example i personally live even without thinking about money at all, but when it comes to settlement(s) we all turn out to have to settle up with our relevant cohabitant(s)(neighbor(s)), because for example one produces e.g. vegetables, another - bakery products, a third - dairy(milk) products, etc., and the one has no bread, while the other has, but has no vegetables and cheese, yet the third has a cheese, and each of them needs not only bread, but even vegetables or cheese, that is why it turns out that they have to settle up one with another so that the one can have not only vegetables, but also a bread and a cheese, the second - vegetables and a cheese, while the third - vegetables and a bread, and so on, that is why where and until the money is a means of exchange, we have no chance to negotiate with the relevant people therein who also need something else but to settle up with them in case we want to have such dealings with them...

everything that we said so far was in one or another way about the material aspect of (the) life, but the important in (the) faith is the spiritual victory over (the) lack of full salvation and (the) very life's provision for the people who have not been completely saved and provided with abundant life yet, i mean life that lasts even to the end of (the) eternity, because what if you have full repudiation from money/livelihood and full abstinence from the physical/bodily as a whole, but cannot save any person in That Who really is the true Heavenly Father, the God, as well as the true Lord, Jesus Christ?!, that is why love is (the) prime, because the true love is what always prompts us to contribute/work for the true and overall salvation in the true Lord God, for i met many (modern) worshipers and clerics that even did not want nor intend to contribute even just a little for it, though they were (at least allegedly) strongest, wisest, sublimest, deepest, etc., e.g. the great yogins and hindu avatars were very typical example of such worshipers and clerics, but unfortunately there were even many christians powerful more in speaking and spreading human tradition(s) than in the deeds of Jesus Christ and His true disciples shown in the Bible

so, here is how i use the adverb "for example/e.g." to talk about the things in (the) faith as a whole giving (principally) particular examples and leaving the rest of the material that the believers/worshipers could or/and even should be aware of (at least with respect to God and the (doctrine/exercise/practice of) faith) for them to acquire/learn it alone, because if we the witnesses of That Who really is the true Lord God (as it were) hand everything to them on a silver platter, then there will be nothing left for them to do in this regard, because all the truth coming out of God will be granted to them, and so they will not do the work they have to do, and then God will say in the end they have missed to do/have not done this their relevant/corresponding work, but received everything without (making) any effort, and they will not receive the greater reward, that's why it is usually given (to) us to prophesy partly/partially, i profess this because you told me i did not explain everything at once and outright (to you), for it was given to me to explain only most essential things as it is also in the biblical scriptures where this is clearly visible also according as we already showed this here, that is why we told you to penetrate(fathom) (the) faith alone so as to understand the things of the true Lord God alone

Blessings

 

[john darling]

Depends on which class we are observing. Humans or devils.

This is the kind of response which I would view as evidence that you've got a genuine problem with money. You claimed there is a distinction between taking the Mark of the Beast and worship of the Beast. I asked you for evidence of that and your response is to ask if I'm talking about humans or devils? Why on Earth would you think I'm talking about devils worshiping the Beast and taking his Mark? Check the first sentence of the Revelation; "The Revelation of Jesus, which God gave to him to show to his servants" (Revelation 1:1). The Revelation is a revelation of Christ, and it is specifically addressed to his servants.

That you would ask if the concern in the Revelation about the mark and worship of the Beast relates to humans or devil shows a serious problem in your ability to see the issues clearly.

The difficulty, dear brother John, is that the parties in question, devils and mankind, are presently overlapped in the flesh.

Nah, the Revelation is between God and man (as the first sentence shows). It involves issues relating to the Beast, but those issues all revolve around God's expectations for how we deal with a world ruled by the Beast. One of those expectations is that we not participate in his system by taking his Mark of loyalty.

It's not a problem of the love of money, it's the problem of internal adversity,

In an earlier post, you acknowledged that the love of money is the root of all evil, just as the Bible proclaims (1 Tim 6:10). The root of all evil. Now, you're saying the root of all evil isn't "really" the problem. When someone dismisses the root of all evil for some other evil, it is a good indication that the person really DOES have a problem with mammon (money and the things money can buy).

It would be difficult for a novice to perceive, as there are some basic rules of the game that God puts in place that must be entered into, personally.

I find it difficult to see truth in the words of a person who talks about the failings of "novices" while he himself cannot accept that the root of all evil is the love of money. Our relationship to mammon (money and the things money can buy) is one of the most basic principles of the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 6:24-34). Who do we really trust? God or mammon. Jesus said we cannot work for both, but here you are declaring Satan to be the other master. For someone addicted to buying/selling, it's a very convenient doctrine. It sounds very spiritual, but it still ignores the root of all evil. This is why the Beast chooses "buying and selling" as his mark of loyalty; he knows very well how addicted people are to money. He knows they believe they cannot live without it, even while they "detest" it, as you suggest for yourself.

I agree. So what does it tell you about how far the churches themselves are fallen, when we constantly barrage each others with the potential fate of eternal fire?

The churches are made up of individuals. The choice to accept or reject the Mark will be an individual choice. You say you agree that physical, outward behaviors can be a reflection of inner, spiritual problems. I'm happy that you've agreed to this, because that is the basic principle behind the Mark. The Mark will be a physical thing, but people will only choose to accept it because of inner, spiritual problems. It will represent a choice they make to align themselves with the spiritual values of the Beast, as opposed to the values of Heaven, much like the example of the Prostitute vs the Bride.

The prostitute promises love while really only caring about money. The bride also promises love but is sincere; she does not expect payment for her love. One is the counterfeit while the other is true. The Beast's Mark is the counterfeit; a physical representation of man's trust in themselves as their own provider. God's spirit of love and sharing is a force of spiritual goodness which results in the physical, like people sharing their time, skills and resources with one another for the sake of love. This is the answer to the Beast, but like Nicodemus or the rich ruler, people will never be able to see God's Kingdom until they learn to become born again by practicing Jesus' teachings (Luke 14:33).

 

[smaller]

This is the kind of response which I would view as evidence that you've got a genuine problem with money.

I've said that understanding end times judgments, which are meant for the devil and his messengers are not going to be based on money nor external marks.

You aren't even in the eschatological field of viewing, because the devil and his messengers are not going to be seen on the outside.

Stare at money all you please. There will be no scriptural understanding found there. None.

 

[john darling]

but i do not live for money, at least because money itself is nothing to me, but can you live without it after the livelihood is evaluated with money?!

Hi JCitoL. Thanks for asking this question. I think it's a very good one and I'm happy to hear you say that you do not live for money. I think that's a very good step in the right direction. As for your question, "is it possible to live without money"? I think the answer is fairly simple once we strip away all our fears and preconceived ideas about the value of money.

Does money make plants grow? Does money cause people or animals to be born, or their blood to circulate, or their lungs to breathe? Does money build shelters for us to live in, or spin clothing for us to wear? Does money create rain? Does money create wisdom or knowledge? Does money encourage people to love one another? If all the money is the world suddenly disappeared, would all the food, resources and people disappear, too?

The answer to all these questions is no. God and people do all these things. Money represents a motivation for WHY people work, but it is a flawed motivation. It is inconsistent with the values of God's Kingdom where people help one another because they want to and not because they expect payment. Jesus taught us to get back to the principles of God's Kingdom (Matthew 4:17). That's what being "born again" is all about. It's not a religious ritual. It's an actual, practical teaching where we "die" to all our old ways and start living by new values. Jesus told Nicodemus that he wouldn't be able to even see God's kingdom unless he became "born again" (John 3:3). It makes perfect sense because God's Kingdom IS the application of Jesus' teachings. If we're not DOING Jesus' teachings then of course we will not "see" his kingdom (John 7:17).

Jesus told us to stop working for money and the things money can buy (Matthew 6:24-34). He told us to stop storing material possessions (Matthew 6:19). He told us to forsake all and that our new Job is to seek his Kingdom first (Luke 14:33, Matthew 6:33). This is why the Beast chooses "buying and selling" as the dividing line. He knows how deeply attached we are to money. He knows it better than we ourselves know it, and that's the way he'd like to keep it.

Consider your own words from an earlier post. You talked about the dangers of "attachment to certain possessions". Think about it. Why did you use the word "certain"? Did you mean that it IS okay to be attached to some possessions? If so, what are the possessions which it is okay to be attached to?

I've asked you a few times now to deal specifically with that comment, but it seems that you do not want to directly acknowledge that you said it. I suspect this is because you realize how it sounds, but the fact is that you did say it. Why? My experience is that, when it comes to discussions about money, people who are attached to it may say things which sound nice, like smaller did when he boldly declared, "it's not money, but the LOVE of money which is the root of all evil", but eventually they go back to defending money as smaller also did when he said, "the root of all evil isn't really the problem".

The Beast loves these kind of arguments because in essence they defend buying and selling. These are the kind of spiritualized arguments which will encourage millions of Christians to take the Mark, all of them trusting in various loopholes to justify their dependence on money. Don't be a part of it.

 

[smaller]

like smaller did when he boldly declared, "it's not money, but the LOVE of money which is the root of all evil", but eventually they go back to defending money as smaller also did when he said, "the root of all evil isn't really the problem".

Uh, no. I pointed to the fact that it is an internal problem of sin. And that "sin" is of the devil. The further you dig into the root of all evil you might logically also find sin, and you'll find the devil therein attached, to every sin.

The fleshly external nonsense is worthless when it comes to understanding "end time" matters, other than as a side bar extension of what is already within.

 

[john darling]

I've said that understanding end times judgments, which are meant for the devil and his messengers are not going to be based on money nor external marks.

Which teachings from the Revelation (which is where the prophecy we're discussing is found) are "meant for the devil and his messengers"? The opening line says the Revelation is meant for the servants of Jesus, but you say some of it is meant for the devil. Why?

The Mark of the Beast prophecy is there to let US know what will happen so that we can be prepared for it. When I ask you about your declaration that taking the Mark of the beast will be different to worship of the Beast, you avoided answering the question by asking me if I'm referring to humans or devils. Even when I clarified that I'm talking about humans, you go back to talking about devils and as a result you've not explained the difference, for humans, between taking the mark of loyalty to the Beast and worship of the Beast. Would you mind doing that now?

 

[smaller]

Which teachings from the Revelation (which is where the prophecy we're discussing is found) are "meant for the devil and his messengers"? The opening line says the Revelation is meant for the servants of Jesus, but you say some of it is meant for the devil. Why?

The entire problem with mankind, and even creation, is sin, and sin is of the devil.

Without THAT party in sight no one is going to see anything about end times because it is upon that party that Gods Judgment Falls.

Yer way too busy looking at the flesh, and thinking that the mark is an external matter when the entirety of the issues of sin, evil and death are internal and demonic.

There ain't going to be an external boogie man called the anti-Christ wanting to brand everybody with a mark. That is juvenile.

The real boogie man is inside the box, where he can't be seen.

 

[ezrider]

f God tells them not to get tattoos and they do it anyway, yes it DOES say something about their "internal state of affairs". The context of the Mark prophecy is that we are told not to take it (Revelation 14:9-11).

If Christ has already drank for me the cup of his wrath, and then I intern drink of His cup which doth run over, and if he has given unto me the river of living waters and the Tree of Life freely; should I then fear your cup of wrath?

 

[smaller]

If Christ has already drank for me the cup of his wrath, and then I intern drink of His cup which doth run over, and if he has given unto me the river of living waters and the Tree of Life freely; should I then fear your cup of wrath?

It's only unfortunate that believers can't see God's Divine Instruments of destruction and unto whom those instruments are deployed, adversely.

The devil and his messengers are abhorred by His Righteousness, Grace, Faith and Mercy. These are what they are destroyed by, the matters of His Eternal Life, with His Spirit poured out upon the planet's inhabitants.

Isaiah 11:
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;

3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Which will result in this:

Hebrews 8:11
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Believers already have their appointment set, and met:

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The flood I await is the flood of Divine Mercy. First, a trickle, then to walk in, then to swim in. The 100lb hailstones that destroy the enemies of God are God's Living Words, by His Spirit, no longer seen as print on pages, but in real life, within, overwhelming and transforming.

 

[JCitoL]

Hi JCitoL. Thanks for asking this question. I think it's a very good one and I'm happy to hear you say that you do not live for money. I think that's a very good step in the right direction. As for your question, "is it possible to live without money"? I think the answer is fairly simple once we strip away all our fears and preconceived ideas about the value of money.

Does money make plants grow? Does money cause people or animals to be born, or their blood to circulate, or their lungs to breathe? Does money build shelters for us to live in, or spin clothing for us to wear? Does money create rain? Does money create wisdom or knowledge? Does money encourage people to love one another? If all the money is the world suddenly disappeared, would all the food, resources and people disappear, too?

The answer to all these questions is no. God and people do all these things. Money represents a motivation for WHY people work, but it is a flawed motivation. It is inconsistent with the values of God's Kingdom where people help one another because they want to and not because they expect payment. Jesus taught us to get back to the principles of God's Kingdom (Matthew 4:17). That's what being "born again" is all about. It's not a religious ritual. It's an actual, practical teaching where we "die" to all our old ways and start living by new values. Jesus told Nicodemus that he wouldn't be able to even see God's kingdom unless he became "born again" (John 3:3). It makes perfect sense because God's Kingdom IS the application of Jesus' teachings. If we're not DOING Jesus' teachings then of course we will not "see" his kingdom (John 7:17).

Jesus told us to stop working for money and the things money can buy (Matthew 6:24-34). He told us to stop storing material possessions (Matthew 6:19). He told us to forsake all and that our new Job is to seek his Kingdom first (Luke 14:33, Matthew 6:33). This is why the Beast chooses "buying and selling" as the dividing line. He knows how deeply attached we are to money. He knows it better than we ourselves know it, and that's the way he'd like to keep it.

Consider your own words from an earlier post. You talked about the dangers of "attachment to certain possessions". Think about it. Why did you use the word "certain"? Did you mean that it IS okay to be attached to some possessions? If so, what are the possessions which it is okay to be attached to?

I've asked you a few times now to deal specifically with that comment, but it seems that you do not want to directly acknowledge that you said it. I suspect this is because you realize how it sounds, but the fact is that you did say it. Why? My experience is that, when it comes to discussions about money, people who are attached to it may say things which sound nice, like smaller did when he boldly declared, "it's not money, but the LOVE of money which is the root of all evil", but eventually they go back to defending money as smaller also did when he said, "the root of all evil isn't really the problem".

The Beast loves these kind of arguments because in essence they defend buying and selling. These are the kind of spiritualized arguments which will encourage millions of Christians to take the Mark, all of them trusting in various loopholes to justify their dependence on money. Don't be a part of it.

some things that you said here are true, but you rush into supporting unverified beliefs too much, because you again talk about visible things by whose knowing there has never been a complete solution, and you miss to learn about and consider the main cause of all evils, which is even the only one, namely the spiritual wickedness/lawlessness, something most invisible and usually unknown to most people that makes the concerned humans ill-conditioned, that is why Jesus Christ as well as each of His true disciples cast the devilish spirits out of the possessed/affected, otherwise, if the cause was the money and the material possessions, They would have taught the people to "live" in material desolation much more than to struggle spiritually against the "darkness", but then They would have placed the abomination of desolation so, which would automatically have made Them antichrists, so if the attention in this regard is drawn from the spiritual to the material, in other words, if the things are turned upside down, then this will surely be a prerequisite for the emergence of a serious misbelief/heresy in the faith, because the believers/worshipers can be caused so to become and stay blind for the very sin, which is the spiritual wickedness/lawlessness, for it is the cause and the source of all other iniquities/evils, or as Daniel the Prophets says:

Daniel 7:2-12 "I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time."

the fourth beast is the spiritual wickedness/lawlessness to which the other three are subordinate/dependent, the Prophet listed them in reverse order so as to present them from the perspective of their perceptibility/visibility for the humans, for the physical iniquity/wickedness is the most visible/perceptible to the human beings, therefore it is presented at first, the next in that order is the economic, because it is the second in terms of perceptibility/visibility, then is the mental/intellectual, for it is less perceptible/visible than the economic iniquity/lawlessness, but the spiritual wickedness/lawlessness is the most imperceptible/invisible for the humans, the four beasts are also the four natural human activities: the physical, the economic, the mental/intellectual, and the spiritual/religious, and it is visible how the satanic power of the other three is taken away together with the removal of the spiritual wickedness/lawlessness, because it is the cause and the source of the other three iniquities, so the direct(rash) acknowledgment concerning these things is tantamount to a very possible participation in the works of the spiritual iniquity/lawlessness, that is why i had to explain all those things hard to be explicated and understood

as for the mammon, it is just one of the names of the devil, but its meaning is not directly related to money, yet to covetousness as a whole, for e.g. eve and adam fell from grace because they coveted to become and be system administrators of the world as God Himself, which (thing) has already been forbidden them by Him

the good prayers to God (made in the Holy principles of faith) for overall salvation are much better/much more effective than a crusade against money

Blessings

 

[john darling]

some things that you said here are true,

Hi JCitoL. Thanks for your response. It sounds like we may have some agreement here. Would you mind clarifying which parts of my post you thought were true? Considering how much disagreement we have, it may make for a more productive discussion if we could spend some time focusing on our areas of agreement. I hope this is okay with you.

 

[john darling]

The entire problem with mankind, and even creation, is sin, and sin is of the devil.

Without THAT party in sight no one is going to see anything about end times because it is upon that party that Gods Judgment Falls.

Hi Smaller. You've not answered the question. Which part of the Revelation is addressed to the Devil and his messengers?

Also, another question you've not answser is the difference between taking the Mark of loyalty to the Beast and worship of the Beast. You clearly said there is a difference. You also said there is nothing which can seperate us from the love of God, in the context of taking the Mark of the Beast. I'd like to hear at least SOME kind of explanation for this issue which doesn't degenerate into highly spiritualized word salad about the "inner sin" or whatever you call it. Can you please just deal specifically with the question you're being asked to address? Thanks.

 

[JCitoL]

Hi JCitoL. Thanks for your response. It sounds like we may have some agreement here. Would you mind clarifying which parts of my post you thought were true? Considering how much disagreement we have, it may make for a more productive discussion if we could spend some time focusing on our areas of agreement. I hope this is okay with you.

everything that truly supports the effective salvation (coming out of the true Lord God) against the perdition is of the Truth, so if you are careful not to rush implications, conclusions and decisions in the faith, you will find the truth, though, in case you always take into consideration and bear in mind the fact that the spiritual iniquity/wickedness/lawlessness is the original sin, the very sin, and even the only one, otherwise, if it were not so, the humans would sin even before "eating of" the forbidden "tree", because there must be some cause of the fall, for the sin is not uncaused, and it is certain there is something great, because if the promise of satan given to eve and adam was merely some feeling of freedom that should appear in their minds, then there would have been no (meaningful enough) point, because the humans were already free enough(completely free) to have abundant and everlasting life by nature coming from God, so if you think there was merely a wrong choice as a cause of the fall at the beginning, you will just waste your time, because it is not in vain written that it's about "eating" i.e. exercise and practice of something very great that might transform the human into something like God Himself in power, wisdom and presence, and that thing is exactly the dark spiritual/religious activity/process initially appeared in the form of occultism, esoterism and idolatry...

Blessings

 

[john darling]

Hi JCitoL. I think you may have misunderstood my comments. You said, "some things that you said here are true". I'd like to know which of the things I said you think are true. I think the discussion will be much more productive if we address some of these specific areas where we apparently have agreement. Thanks.

 

[JCitoL]

Hi JCitoL. I think you may have misunderstood my comments. You said, "some things that you said here are true". I'd like to know which of the things I said you think are true. I think the discussion will be much more productive if we address some of these specific areas where we apparently have agreement. Thanks.

isn't the thing you ask me about quite obvious now after so many posts filled with writing/detailed explanations?!, why must everything be handed on a silver platter - what will the other believers do/work if everything is handed to them on a silver platter?!, and what would their reward be if God finds them on the last day they have not done/worked anything?!, so it is more important that we set a good example for the others so that they might follow the good example to be faithful to the true Lord God not just in word, but also in deed, because if they do not truly believe in That Who really is the true Lord God, what will the profit be then even if they know all the truth of God?!

in short, the purpose of the true God and the true Saints is to provide all human and other besouled beings with abundant life lasting until the end of eternity so that they could not suffer any more, and the true Lord God created this world as a paradise(good place for living), but then the devil have begun to defile it by its relevant spiritual workers/servants among the humans, so do you now understand that there is nothing (more) important as opposed to (the work on) the overall salvation in the true Lord God, at least as to what the true use of faith is?!, because the true Lord God created the world as a paradise(place for good life), but the prideful spiritual workers have turned it into a hell, for that reason the Son of God, Jesus Christ, came to destroy the works of satan so that all human and other besouled beings might be completely and permanently saved inheriting abundant life that lasts forever, therefore all judgments against(to the detriment of) the humans are in principle undesirable for the true Lord God, especially if people are judged badly only because they naturally have/consume ordinary goods/consumptions

Romans 14:19-23 "Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. For meat destroy not the work of God. All things(i.e. all material things) indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence(i.e. causing evil/harm to another by its eating). It is good neither to eat flesh(i.e. neither to exercise/practice idolatry), nor to drink wine(i.e. nor occultism), nor(i.e. nor to do) any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth(i.e. the believer/worshiper/cleric who does not condemn itself in anything that it uses). And he that doubteth is damned if he eat(i.e. and that who errs as to what the truth is, damns itself if it exercises/practices the faith so), because he eateth not of faith(i.e. because the same exercises/practices the faith wrong): for whatsoever is not of faith(i.e. for every belief/persuasion/tradition in this regard that doesn't conform with the right faith) is sin."

Blessings

 

[john darling]

isn't the thing you ask me about quite obvious now after so many posts filled with writing/detailed explanations?!

Hi JCitoL. I don't think it's obvious. I think we've had A LOT of disagreement about this issue of money, which is why I want to get it very clear when you say, "some things you've said (about money) are true". Even though you may see it as obvious, I would really appreciate if you would please just clarify for me which of the things from my post you thought were true.

The post I'm referring to is post #124. In a previous post you said that it is not possible to live without working for money. I made some challenges to that statement, to which you responded, "some of the things you said are true". With all the disagreement we've had on our relationship to money, I'd really like to know which parts you see us agreeing on from that post (i.e. post #124). Please do clarify for me.

 

[Corn Pop]

Everyone rich and poor is forced to use money to survive. The poor cant survive without it and the rich cant survive without it. Then again some can, and still do live off the land, but then again there also forced to pay taxes on that land so also need money to survive. Its a must.

Like Jesus told the man Sell everything you have, give it to the poor, then come follow me. And you cannot serve both God and money.

If the love of money is the root of evil that makes the man made money system a false deception people believe gives them security in life. People deny it but they love it, you work hard you buy things and have comfortable living.

Its very obvious money is a main cause of evil.

It all goes back to cain.

 

[JCitoL]

Hi JCitoL. I don't think it's obvious. I think we've had A LOT of disagreement about this issue of money, which is why I want to get it very clear when you say, "some things you've said (about money) are true". Even though you may see it as obvious, I would really appreciate if you would please just clarify for me which of the things from my post you thought were true.

The post I'm referring to is post #124. In a previous post you said that it is not possible to live without working for money. I made some challenges to that statement, to which you responded, "some of the things you said are true". With all the disagreement we've had on our relationship to money, I'd really like to know which parts you see us agreeing on from that post (i.e. post #124). Please do clarify for me.

it has (already) been answered (to you) (even in my previous post(#135)), what more do you want?!, and if you missed something that you wanna know, then don't be idle, flip and fastidious, but return back to find and read all (my) posts in the thread again, reason between the opinions/beliefs and see what you need(ed) to know

Blessings

 

[john darling]

it has (already) been answered (to you) (even in my previous post(#135)), what more do you want?!, and if you missed something that you wanna know, then don't be idle, flip and fastidious, but return back to find and read all (my) posts in the thread again, reason between the opinions/beliefs and see what you need(ed) to know

Hi JCitoL. No, in your previous post you told me, "it's obvius". In the post before that you didn't answer, either. I've read them very carefully because I'm interested in the answer.

 

[john darling]

The poor cant survive without it and the rich cant survive without it. Then again some can, and still do live off the land, but then again there also forced to pay taxes on that land so also need money to survive. Its a must.

I think this is only true when we believe it is true. Money only has as much value as we choose to give it. Jesus wants us to start working for a new motivation; love. (Matthew 6:24-34)

Like Jesus told the man Sell everything you have, give it to the poor, then come follow me. And you cannot serve both God and money.

If the love of money is the root of evil that makes the man made money system a false deception people believe gives them security in life. People deny it but they love it, you work hard you buy things and have comfortable living.

Its very obvious money is a main cause of evil.

Thanks for sharing this insight, Kiwidan. I particularly liked the part about how we deny loving money and yet we work for it so that we can get all these nice things. I don't think it's wrong to enjoy nice things, but when those things become the motivation for why we work then problems will come in our spirit.