How to defend the trinity!

[jasonc]

The only translating that remained when the protestants translated( 1500,s) was Catholicism translating. All originals were gone. I use the New world translation, The only translators who had enough love and respect for Gods will to put his name back where God willed it to be. While all using Catholicisms form of translating, condemned the translators for standing up for Gods will over satans will, whose will had Gods name removed in about 7000 spots to mislead.

Why am I not surprlsed.

 

[Cooper]

If I said no one comes to my father except through me. Would that make me my father?

It would make you the Father if you were there at the beginning of time and you were the only one.
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[Cooper]

I don't see anywhere in the Bible where the Trinity is taught. Even Trinity scholars admit that there are only about eight verses in the entire New Testament that can be understood to say that Jesus is God, and every one of them can either be translated in a way that supports the Biblical Unitarian position, or disputed textually, or can be explained from the use of the word “God” in the culture.

If by Trinity, people mean three gods, they are wrong. There can only be one God, but if they mean one God in three realms separated by time and space they would be correct.
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[Free]

Every single spot in OT where-GOD or LORD all capitols, nearly 6800 places, every spot in NT where the OT is quoted and the name belongs in the OT.

The name in those spots is YHWH. It's the tetragrammaton, and that is God's name, not Jehovah. LORD is simply used where YHWH appears, just as the NWT uses Jehovah instead. "Jehovah" is not a Hebrew word, it is Latin.

Yes when God is mentioned alone he can be called Theos-But when another Theos( god) is mentioned in the same paragraph-HoTheos always to the true God.

That doesn't explain anything, since there is only one God. There was, is, and ever will be only one God; no gods. If it is just Theos, how are we to know if it is God or a god? Look at John 1:6: "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John." How do we know what God or god sent John? What about verse 12 and 13, are we children of God or a god and born by the will of God or a god?

Or, are JWs are polytheists then? If there is more than one God, that is, at a minimum, bitheism. You must believe in at least two gods. Correct?

Your John 1:3 is a mistranslation as well.

Then that means the NWT is mistranslated too at John 1:3, since they say the same thing. Glad you can admit the NWT is faulty.

There are many of them to fit the error of a capitol G God in the last line at John 1:1. To fit the false council teaching that God is a trinity.

It is always translated "God" in John 1:1 because that is what the context demands.

No true follower ever served a trinity prior to 381 CE.

This is patently false. You even provided evidence yourself, which I have twice pointed out, that contradicts this claim. Why haven't you addressed that?

 

[Peterlag]

It would make you the Father if you were there at the beginning of time and you were the only one.
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It would make you the Father if you were there at the beginning of time and you were the only one.
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Then why not just say no one comes through me except through me?

 

[Cooper]

Then why not just say no one comes through me except through me?

That is weird. You need to rephrase it if you can without stumbling over the truth.
When you do re-write it, you need to remember Jesus is a duality. He is the Word who created the heaven and the earth, and he is the same creator God with us made visible in the image and likeness of man.
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[D-D-W]

If by Trinity, people mean three gods, they are wrong. There can only be one God,

That would be the ancient heresy of tri-theism; and yes - it is wrong. VERY wrong.

but if they mean one God in three realms separated by time and space they would be correct.

Since God lives OUTSIDE time and space - that would also be wrong.

 

[Cooper]

That would be the ancient heresy of tri-theism; and yes - it is wrong. VERY wrong.

Since God lives OUTSIDE time and space - that would also be wrong.

How would you re-phrase it to be correct?

 

[D-D-W]

"Jehovah" is not a Hebrew word, it is Latin.

Actually, no. The Latin language was dead before the letter "J" or the J sound appeared in any language. It was invented by the Arabs circa 1000 ad and slowly worked its way thru the rest of the world. It did not appear in England until the last half of the 1600s.

The 1611 KJV used the term "Iehovah," (with an I instead of J) which was a misunderstanding of the Hebrew text and the vowel point system. In sacred texts that used the vowel points, the Hebrew letters Y H V H were given the letters for the term Lord - Adonai - as a warning to the reader to NOT try to pronounce the Tetragrammaton.

 

[D-D-W]

How would you re-phrase it to be correct?

I do not believe you can phrase it correctly. IT is beyond us.

 

[pierac]

How do you defend the trinity from the Bible alone?

Easy...
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him

Pay attenion... You have no idea....
You speak as a Child...

Keep posting I'm ready to bend you over my knee.... And give you the Bibical spanking.. you need!!!

 

[D-D-W]

Easy...
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him

Eh - Not so fast. That really proves nothing. Besides, the "him" (notice it was not capitalized) was John.

 

[Cooper]

That would be the ancient heresy of tri-theism; and yes - it is wrong. VERY wrong.

Since God lives OUTSIDE time and space - that would also be wrong.

Remember we are only mortals trying to understand and express the immortal. So in humility, I offer this as a suggestion.

“If by Trinity, people mean three gods, they are wrong. There can only be one God, but if they mean one eternal, omnipresent God in heaven, on earth and in our hearts, they would be correct.”
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[Free]

Remember we are only mortals trying to understand and express the immortal. So in humility, I offer this as a suggestion.

“If by Trinity, people mean three gods, they are wrong. There can only be one God, but if they mean one eternal, omnipresent God in heaven, on earth and in our hearts, they would be correct.”
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So, Trinitarians are correct then.

 

[Free]

Actually, no. The Latin language was dead before the letter "J" or the J sound appeared in any language. It was invented by the Arabs circa 1000 ad and slowly worked its way thru the rest of the world. It did not appear in England until the last half of the 1600s.

It seems that "J" is much newer than that. Most sites suggest mid 1500s or so, and of Italian origin.

As to Latin: https://www.livescience.com/did-latin-die.html

Also: "The vowel substitution was originally made by the Masoretes as a direction to substitute Adhonai for "the ineffable name." European students of Hebrew took this literally, which yielded Latin JeHoVa (first attested in writings of Galatinus, confessor to Leo X, 1516)."

https://www.etymonline.com/word/jehovah

"Jehovah, artificial Latinized rendering of the name of the God of Israel."

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Jehovah-2108642

"So, why did people start pronouncing it with a J? Although people have debated even this, we do know that Jehovah appeared in Bibles starting in the 1500s. A Latinized transgrammation of the YHWH name most likely played into the ultimate assumption of how YHWH was pronounced Jehovah."

https://www.christianity.com/wiki/god/is-jehovah-the-true-name-of-god.html

The 1611 KJV used the term "Iehovah," (with an I instead of J) which was a misunderstanding of the Hebrew text and the vowel point system.

The main point I was making is that Jehovah is not actually God's name, which JWs disagree with, and so they shouldn't be using it as an argument against other translations.

 

[keiw1]

Why am I not surprlsed.

Everyone should be using it. They corrected the alterations and translation errors to fit false council teachings. I have used trinity translations. They contradict Jesus to the core.

 

[keiw1]

The name in those spots is YHWH. It's the tetragrammaton, and that is God's name, not Jehovah. LORD is simply used where YHWH appears, just as the NWT uses Jehovah instead. "Jehovah" is not a Hebrew word, it is Latin.


That doesn't explain anything, since there is only one God. There was, is, and ever will be only one God; no gods. If it is just Theos, how are we to know if it is God or a god? Look at John 1:6: "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John." How do we know what God or god sent John? What about verse 12 and 13, are we children of God or a god and born by the will of God or a god?

Or, are JWs are polytheists then? If there is more than one God, that is, at a minimum, bitheism. You must believe in at least two gods. Correct?


Then that means the NWT is mistranslated too at John 1:3, since they say the same thing. Glad you can admit the NWT is faulty.


It is always translated "God" in John 1:1 because that is what the context demands.


This is patently false. You even provided evidence yourself, which I have twice pointed out, that contradicts this claim. Why haven't you addressed that?

Satan is called Theos at 2 Cor 4:4--the god of this system of things. Again God is called Ho Theos later in that verse. Same translating requirements are applied-When The true God is called Ho Theos and plain Theos is mentioned in the same paragraph-Theos = small g god.

 

[jasonc]

It seems that "J" is much newer than that. Most sites suggest mid 1500s or so, and of Italian origin.

As to Latin: https://www.livescience.com/did-latin-die.html

Also: "The vowel substitution was originally made by the Masoretes as a direction to substitute Adhonai for "the ineffable name." European students of Hebrew took this literally, which yielded Latin JeHoVa (first attested in writings of Galatinus, confessor to Leo X, 1516)."

https://www.etymonline.com/word/jehovah

"Jehovah, artificial Latinized rendering of the name of the God of Israel."

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Jehovah-2108642

"So, why did people start pronouncing it with a J? Although people have debated even this, we do know that Jehovah appeared in Bibles starting in the 1500s. A Latinized transgrammation of the YHWH name most likely played into the ultimate assumption of how YHWH was pronounced Jehovah."

https://www.christianity.com/wiki/god/is-jehovah-the-true-name-of-god.html


The main point I was making is that Jehovah is not actually God's name, which JWs disagree with, and so they shouldn't be using it as an argument against other translations.

The J is german is a y sound in English

Everyone should be using it. They corrected the alterations and translation errors to fit false council teachings. I have used trinity translations. They contradict Jesus to the core.

You mean I who remember the fallen prophecies of the tract society of 1976,and they used kiv before that .and 2000 .see I was told not to go college ,life insurance etc.

I was raised in the kingdom hall

 

[keiw1]

The J is german is a y sound in English

You mean I who remember the fallen prophecies of the tract society of 1976,and they used kiv before that .and 2000 .see I was told not to go college ,life insurance etc.

I was raised in the kingdom hall

They werent fallen prophecies--What occurred-God made the prophecy of Armageddon, it will occur, nothing false about it. Their error was trying to put a date on a real prophecy that God made. They have repented of that. God requires one to repent if they err. He knows ALL mortals err, repentance is what God requires to forgive that one. So if God forgives that one all are required to do the same. Just as Jesus teaches in the Lords prayer-- Forgive us our trespasses as WE forgive those who trespass against us.
College gets one a better paycheck--lots of immoral sex occurs parties, drugs etc. Taking ones valuable time that could be put to better use by applying Jesus truth--Matt 6:33--Therefore, keep on seeking-FIRST-the kingdom and his( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)-- one path leads to the world. one leads to entering Gods kingdom.

 

[jasonc]

They werent fallen prophecies--What occurred-God made the prophecy of Armageddon, it will occur, nothing false about it. Their error was trying to put a date on a real prophecy that God made. They have repented of that. God requires one to repent if they err. He knows ALL mortals err, repentance is what God requires to forgive that one. So if God forgives that one all are required to do the same. Just as Jesus teaches in the Lords prayer-- Forgive us our trespasses as WE forgive those who trespass against us.
College gets one a better paycheck--lots of immoral sex occurs parties, drugs etc. Taking ones valuable time that could be put to better use by applying Jesus truth--Matt 6:33--Therefore, keep on seeking-FIRST-the kingdom and his( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)-- one path leads to the world. one leads to entering Gods kingdom.

Right and you weren't there ,those that lost money should just understand .

My family didn't .I remember things well.

In 1983 ,the kjv was said by the elders of the hall that it was still a good translation.

The nwt was very new then .you are only here because you want someone to join .

So the tract society called donating and receiving blood a sin in that it was the same as eating blood.

No ,whoops they were wrong .
Don't go to college,don't do alot .that's changed a bit .

A pattern of that mistaken dates of 1914,1918 ,1925,1976,and 2000.


Yeah just ignore that tis a tiny error.

It was still taught in the hall that 1914 was important .that this generation wouldn't die.thst was up to the 90s.


The generation that saw that is very few left .it's been 108 years.