What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

How to defend the trinity!

Free said:
The autographs, the original writings, which we don't have, we written by men in their own words but inspired by God so that what God wanted written, was written. No translation, including the NWT, was written this way. All we have are copies and copies of copies of the autographs.

Every single translation, including the NWT, must use the manuscript evidence we have available at a given time. To do the translating requires people with significant relevant education and experience--experts. It cannot be done by just anyone, even if they have some relevant education. It appears as though the NWT was done by those without expertise, and so we find some significant errors.

You disagree, but yet you still haven't addressed the four points I provided which prove this to be the case. Why is that? Afraid you'll find out I am speaking the truth? This is literally a matter of life and death, so you would do well to address those points, one by one.
Click to expand...

The NWT corrected the errors translated in by Catholicism to fit false council teachings. And sadly in front of all creation eyes, every trinity clergy on earth condemned the NWT for putting Gods name back in the 7000 places God put it because its his will for his name to be there. It was by satans will the name was removed, thus all using altered translations are being mislead to support satans will over Gods will. The real teachers on earth appointed by Jesus get holy spirit to guide them into truth and correction. The rest do not belong to Jesus, they are these-2Cor 11:12-15.
In 1822 a Greek scholar using trinity Greek lexicons, translated the NT comparing Greek and English side by side, proving to the world-a god was correct in the last line at John 1:1--rejected of course by every trinity clergy because truth exposes them as false religions, they are-a house divided, they will not stand.
 
keiw1 said:
The NWT corrected the errors translated in by Catholicism to fit false council teachings. And sadly in front of all creation eyes, every trinity clergy on earth condemned the NWT for putting Gods name back in the 7000 places God put it because its his will for his name to be there. It was by satans will the name was removed, thus all using altered translations are being mislead to support satans will over Gods will. The real teachers on earth appointed by Jesus get holy spirit to guide them into truth and correction. The rest do not belong to Jesus, they are these-2Cor 11:12-15.
In 1822 a Greek scholar using trinity Greek lexicons, translated the NT comparing Greek and English side by side, proving to the world-a god was correct in the last line at John 1:1--rejected of course by every trinity clergy because truth exposes them as false religions, they are-a house divided, they will not stand.
Click to expand...
One of the four points I have repeatedly asked you to address, is that if John 1:1c is “a god,” the JWs are polytheists. But the Bible clearly teaches monotheism, that there was, is, and ever will be only one God. There are no lesser gods.

Why don’t you address that point or any of the other three? What are you avoiding? Are you afraid of what you’ll find?
 
Free said:
One of the four points I have repeatedly asked you to address, is that if John 1:1c is “a god,” the JWs are polytheists. But the Bible clearly teaches monotheism, that there was, is, and ever will be only one God. There are no lesser gods.

Why don’t you address that point or any of the other three? What are you avoiding? Are you afraid of what you’ll find?
Click to expand...

No we are not polythiests--We serve Jehovah alone in worship--Jehovah = Ho Theos-The God--plain Theos is NOT calling that one a God--but a god-small g when the true God is mentioned in the same paragraph. Like John 1:1 and in 2 Cor 4:4 satan is called Theos and God-Ho Theos. Proving plain Theos in that scenario is not calling that one a God, but a god, meaning-Has godlike qualities. The same translating rule is applied in both spots.
 
keiw1 said:
No we are not polythiests--We serve Jehovah alone in worship--Jehovah = Ho Theos-The God--plain Theos is NOT calling that one a God--but a god-small g when the true God is mentioned in the same paragraph. Like John 1:1 and in 2 Cor 4:4 satan is called Theos and God-Ho Theos. Proving plain Theos in that scenario is not calling that one a God, but a god, meaning-Has godlike qualities. The same translating rule is applied in both spots.
Click to expand...
The only being with “godlike qualities” is God, or, as with Greek mythology and some other religions, are lesser gods. That is rather the point. In John 1:1 it is speaking of the Word’s nature, the Word’s divinity. The problem for JWs still remains: the only being that is divine in nature, or has godlike qualities, is God. The result is the same.
 
Free said:
The only being with “godlike qualities” is God, or, as with Greek mythology and some other religions, are lesser gods. That is rather the point. In John 1:1 it is speaking of the Word’s nature, the Word’s divinity. The problem for JWs still remains: the only being that is divine in nature, or has godlike qualities, is God. The result is the same.
Click to expand...
Jesus brought the dead back to life, created wine out of water, healed many of blindness, lame, etc= godlike qualities.
Satan has mislead 99% in history. Made Gods chosen fall over and over, Made 1/3 of Gods angels fall= godlike qualities.
 
hawkman said:
Don't you think Jesus's own words in Matthew Chapter 28 would be sufficient ?

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Click to expand...
This scripture doesn't prove no Trinity, at lease not according to the Trinity Doctrine that people keep stating to me which there are various definitions that people give of what they believe the Trinity Doctrine is saying. One of the things they state though is that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all equal. Well Matthews 28:18-20 doesn't teach that. This scripture teaches us that somebody gave the only begotten Son the authority he was talking about that was given to him in this scripture. At 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 it teaches us that God is the one that has given the only begotten Son the authority he was given but Jesus doesn't have authority over God his Father, but God his Father does have authority over him.
 
BB1956 said:
This scripture doesn't prove no Trinity, at lease not according to the Trinity Doctrine that people keep stating to me which there are various definitions that people give of what they believe the Trinity Doctrine is saying. One of the things they state though is that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all equal. Well Matthews 28:18-20 doesn't teach that. This scripture teaches us that somebody gave the only begotten Son the authority he was talking about that was given to him in this scripture. At 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 it teaches us that God is the one that has given the only begotten Son the authority he was given but Jesus doesn't have authority over God his Father, but God his Father does have authority over him.
Click to expand...
My Bible clearly states that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all equal. The three comprise the Godhead.
 
BB1956 said:
This scripture doesn't prove no Trinity, at lease not according to the Trinity Doctrine that people keep stating to me which there are various definitions that people give of what they believe the Trinity Doctrine is saying. One of the things they state though is that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all equal. Well Matthews 28:18-20 doesn't teach that. This scripture teaches us that somebody gave the only begotten Son the authority he was talking about that was given to him in this scripture. At 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 it teaches us that God is the one that has given the only begotten Son the authority he was given but Jesus doesn't have authority over God his Father, but God his Father does have authority over him.
Click to expand...
If you do not like the word Trinity do not use it ! But just know there Is God The Father , God The Son and God The Holy Spirit . How you want to place and rank them is up to you I suppose . I know All Three are real . I know there is power in the Name of Jesus ! I know the comfort of The Holy Spirit ! Three questions for you BB1956 . Yes or no answers are all that is required .

1. Does God the Father have authority over you ?

2. Does the Son of God the Father have authority over you ?

3, Does the Holy Spirit have authority over you ?
 
hawkman said:
If you do not like the word Trinity do not use it ! But just know there Is God The Father , God The Son and God The Holy Spirit . How you want to place and rank them is up to you I suppose . I know All Three are real . I know there is power in the Name of Jesus ! I know the comfort of The Holy Spirit ! Three questions for you BB1956 . Yes or no answers are all that is required .

1. Does God the Father have authority over you ?

2. Does the Son of God the Father have authority over you ?

3, Does the Holy Spirit have authority over you ?
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter to me whether a person uses the word Trinity or not. The scriptures don't claim that Jesus is God they teach or claim that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.
 
BB1956 said:
It doesn't matter to me whether a person uses the word Trinity or not. The scriptures don't claim that Jesus is God they teach or claim that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.
Click to expand...
If we are to carry on with this conversation it is important that you answer these three questions . I may have thought up the questions but I had help with the wording , here they are again . It should be three easy yes answers . Do you see it some other way ?!?

1. Does God the Father have authority over you ?

2. Does the Son of God the Father have authority over you ?

3, Does the Holy Spirit have authority over you ?
 
hawkman said:
If we are to carry on with this conversation it is important that you answer these three questions . I may have thought up the questions but I had help with the wording , here they are again . It should be three easy yes answers . Do you see it some other way ?!?

1. Does God the Father have authority over you ?

2. Does the Son of God the Father have authority over you ?

3, Does the Holy Spirit have authority over you ?
Click to expand...
I agree that the Father and God of Jesus who has authority over Jesus has authority over me.

I agree that the Father and God of Jesus, who is YHWH has made his only begotten Son Jesus, my lord and king and subjected all authority to his son so Jesus has authority over me. But YHWH God isn't subject to Jesus but Jesus is subject to YHWH God so I continue to understand that because God in his word makes sure people understand that.

I disagree the Holy Spirit is a person who has authority over me. I believe the Holy Spirit is YHWH God's Holy Spirit. I agree we should pray to YHWH God for his Holy Spirit.That we should pray to YHWH God to be guided by his Holy Spirit. I agree we should pray to YHWH God to help us to rely on his Holy Spirit.
 
The conversation is contention, then it is ungodly.

You cant and wont ever cover this up. ( ops)


1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
 
Move all contentious threads to controversial, not where mockery is made of Christianity designed for contentious discussions.
 
Christ is not divided, there is no division from the Son of God to the Father.

Also God is a Spirit, He is the Spirit of Christ.
 
BB1956 said:
I agree that the Father and God of Jesus who has authority over Jesus has authority over me.

I agree that the Father and God of Jesus, who is YHWH has made his only begotten Son Jesus, my lord and king and subjected all authority to his son so Jesus has authority over me. But YHWH God isn't subject to Jesus but Jesus is subject to YHWH God so I continue to understand that because God in his word makes sure people understand that.

I disagree the Holy Spirit is a person who has authority over me. I believe the Holy Spirit is YHWH God's Holy Spirit. I agree we should pray to YHWH God for his Holy Spirit.That we should pray to YHWH God to be guided by his Holy Spirit. I agree we should pray to YHWH God to help us to rely on his Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
Jesus has always been the Son. Gods firstborn and the beginning of the creation of God *The Father. Before all things except His God and Father. It did please God that in Jesus the fullness of "His" Deity should dwell and by His Son He made the universe set up thrones and powers in the heavenly realms. Everything else.

In answer to this question, "Is Jesus God?"

Like this type of thread, He never dies.
Yes, He is all that the Father is.
No, He has always been the Son.

This Son who was, (His spirit), was in the body God prepared for Him. And we read the Father was living in Him doing His work. They are one in that manner as Jesus testified to and the Father is His God and the only true God as Jesus testifies.

"Father into your hands I commit My spirit"

Because Jesus is a Son it was necessary to distinguish Him from Gods angels. Jesus shown as God not an angel.
Hebrews 1 "About the Son"

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

Jesus calls the one on the throne in Heaven His God and Father. The Father also testifies to that truth.

You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy

There is only one true Deity the Father. So the Spirit of God is indeed the Fathers Spirit and has the Fathers nature.
The Spirit searches and knows the deep thoughts of the mind of the Spirit and speaks only what He hears and intercedes for us according to the will of the mind of God. The Spirit, unlike the Son, does not have an independent, mind and will from the Father and is not distinct person of God.

We read that the fullness of Deity "lives in" Jesus who Jesus identified as the Father. Make no mistake the Son is ALL that the Father is. The imprint of Gods very being. The image of the invisible God. A Son who is shown Mighty God.

So all that leaves us with this declaration which was complete and along with Hebrews about the Son didn't require man to muck it up.

Paul stated to us not to me.
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

The JW's believe Jesus is the arch angel Micheal. He is Not. He is the Son. The firstborn.
Unitarians believe Jesus, though highly exalted, began in the womb of Mary. We know and clearly read Jesus was before the world began and God made the creation through Him who is declared the image of the invisible God.
The Morons - well their just crazy.
Oneness they don't see 3 persons at all. We know and read Jesus is not the Father and the Father is not the Son.
 

The Trinity

The purpose of New Testament is to identify the Lord Jesus as the Son of God (because that’s His primary administration for salvation). Though the Three are equal in Deity, power and essence, They are in an order of authority (Father, Son, Spirit - Jhn 10:29; 14:28; 1Co 11:3; 15:24); as the One...
christianforums.net
 
Randy said:
Yes, He is All that the Father is and is declared the image of the invisible God.

But God the Father is His God and Father.
How is this So?
Click to expand...
Jesus is the Son in that He is come in human flesh.

The Father is distinct from the Son in that He is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity.

They are the same Spirit (John 4:23-24, John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4).
 
BB1956 said:
It doesn't matter to me whether a person uses the word Trinity or not. The scriptures don't claim that Jesus is God they teach or claim that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.
Click to expand...
Read John 1:1. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. "
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top