How to walk by the spirit.

[Peterlag7]

The historical, orthodox position of Christianity is that Jesus is God in human flesh, because this is what Scripture states.


Well, you did completely ignore everything I posted. I may as well have posted my grocery list. There was no attempt to engage any biblical text nor any argument. My comment about being "fairly naive" was because you claim to be a biblical scholar, one of the best on the person of Jesus, if I remember correctly, so you really should know that your claim--"They said he said God was his father. And then their custom meant that Jesus was part of God's family."--simply isn't at all accurate. To be the Son of God is a much stronger claim, as was being a son of a particular father. I was just meaning that it seems to be a fairly uninformed position for someone who claims to be a biblical scholar.

What I say about Scripture is my simply opinion about what I believe it is saying, based on study. I believe my view is correct just as you believe your view is correct.


No, I don't do that. Staff does not do that.


Fair enough, but there were no Christians and those same apostles became the first Christians. They baptized people with water during Jesus's ministry and then at the end of his ministry, Jesus commands them to go make more disciples and baptize them. There is nothing to suggest that it isn't without water, which is why we see it continue in the NT with water.


We can try, but if we're going to discuss the deity of Jesus, we cannot limit it to one verse at a time. Well, about almost any topic we shouldn't limit it to one verse at a time since context really, really matters. With Jesus's deity, there is just so much that has to be taken into account.

The historical, orthodox position of Christianity is that Jesus is God in human flesh.
I believe if Jesus was on this site he would not be able to say who he is. And that's what I think about the historical, orthodox position of Christianity.
who claims to be a biblical scholar.
Oh no I never said I was a biblical scholar. I said I was one of the most knowledgeable men on the planet concerning the subject of the resurrected Christ Jesus.
There is nothing to suggest that it isn't without water.
There is nothing to suggest it was water since water produces nothing. It did nothing for Israel. It redeemed nobody. It saved nobody from sin. It got nobody saved. It's used as a word to describe immersion and used that way in the New Testament as a Rite from the Old Testament when they used to immerse in water.

 

[Peterlag7]

So did you speak in tongues after you were water Baptized?

I was never water baptized. It serves no purpose.

 

[Peterlag7]

No help at all , I don't see an answer in your post . Lets try again .

I can not find any biblical support for " there's no Law in the Grace Admin " so you need to come up with some support .



I wanted you to maybe look in the bible and see if you can find the answers for me to these questions . That way we can see that the law in some fashion was still around and is now still with us . You are a student of the bible , the answers are in there I believe . My questions again .

Didn't Jesus have some commandments he gave to us ?

Where are the laws at now during the Grace Administration ?

Thanks for your reply .

Jesus has address the Christian before he died and before there were Christians. My favorite was when he said we can ask in his name.
I see no Law for the Christian. Behold...

Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

 

[Peterlag7]

And who is Israel- the seed that comes from Jacob..from Abraham is Christ. The seed not meaning many but Jesus. One upholds the Law through faith in Christ.
Its about the inside being clean so that the outside and deeds are done from a pure heart. Love fulfills the law.

The key is man needs a new heart by His Spirit, if the inside is clean then the outside will be as well.

Everything has to be view in context
Being under the Law does not mean there is no law.

Yes there is the Law of Christ...and who is Israel?

Romans 3_19-20
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

 

[Peterlag7]

But you throw baptism under the Law..Yet there were many baptisms.

Is making a committment to follow Christ through water baptism under the Law?
I don't know about what you and your people say... why can't some things belong in both the old and new.

Love for example is not a new command

The different administrations are suited to different times because God has spoken everything to its proper time and administration. We will never understand the truth of God’s Word if we read into one administration what God tells us belongs to another administration. If we believe what God said in one administration and carry it into another administration that was on a different principle, we will be taking what is true for one time, and using it to contradict what is also true for another time. When we mix them all together, by jumbling the whole Bible together: Law, Gospel, Grace, Judgment, Glory, Jew, Gentile, and the Church of God, we will be very confused in our understanding of the truth of God’s Word.

What is written directly to the Jews, belongs to and is for the Jews. What is written directly to the Gentiles, belongs to and is for the Gentiles. What is written directly to the Church of God, belongs to and is for the Church of God. What does God mean when He tells us that the visions shown to Isaiah was concerning Judah and Jerusalem? It was not addressed to us or written concerning us, but it was addressed to and concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It would be dishonest for the Church of God to interpret to the Church of God what God said concerns Israel.

The present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. It deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. It's a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. From this our Grace administration, we learn God’s secret purpose that He had placed in Himself, according to the administration of Grace, which was first revealed to the apostle Paul.

From the eighth chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” and “that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

From the sixth chapter of the book of Deuteronomy, it was written to those who lived under the Law administration, “it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.” However, from the third chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.” What was written to those who lived under the Law administration is the complete opposite of what is written to us who live under the Grace administration.

 

[Peterlag7]

Any evidence over the last 100 years when a born again believer starts speaking in a known language foreign to them prior to the regeneration? For example, someone who has never spoken ancient Greek prior to being born again starts speaking it perfectly once regenerated?

Personally, I wish God gave me the ability to speak ancient Greek after being regenerated. That did not happen.

This question is not meant to downplay speaking in tongues. Every now and often I get the urge to break into a pattern of sound and utterances which was an unknown phenomenon to me prior to regeneration but then I cool down.

From 1 Peter 5:8 "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." Speaking in tongues is associated with a heightened excited psychological state and one can never be sure that opens the door to a Satanic attack.

Lastly, and most importantly speaking in tongues can be a social equilibrium too in a church setting where some try to appear regenerated by just babbling incoherently maybe even out of peer pressure. I say this for the true indicator of the Holy Spirit in a faithful in Christ are the fruits produced and Paul has told us what they are.

1 Corinthians 12:7 Starts out by mentioning these manifestations that most if not all Christian groups call gifts. That urge you get to break into a pattern of sound and utterances is probably speaking in tongues. It's not my thing and maybe it should be since Paul said he did it a lot. My thing is walking by the spirit and thus, being involved with must of the spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:7
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

 

[hawkman]

Jesus has address the Christian before he died and before there were Christians. My favorite was when he said we can ask in his name.
I see no Law for the Christian. Behold...

Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Jesus gave us two commandments , and they are Law during the Grace Administration .

Matthew 22:37 Context​

34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Where are the laws at during the Grace Administration , they are written in your heart .

Romans 2:15 Context​

12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. 17Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 18And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

 

[Corinth77777]

Jesus has address the Christian before he died and before there were Christians. My favorite was when he said we can ask in his name.
I see no Law for the Christian. Behold...

Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

What adminstation is one under if they are not in Christ? Are they still under the Law administration the same time there is a grace administration going on?

 

[Corinth77777]

The different administrations are suited to different times because God has spoken everything to its proper time and administration. We will never understand the truth of God’s Word if we read into one administration what God tells us belongs to another administration. If we believe what God said in one administration and carry it into another administration that was on a different principle, we will be taking what is true for one time, and using it to contradict what is also true for another time. When we mix them all together, by jumbling the whole Bible together: Law, Gospel, Grace, Judgment, Glory, Jew, Gentile, and the Church of God, we will be very confused in our understanding of the truth of God’s Word.

What is written directly to the Jews, belongs to and is for the Jews. What is written directly to the Gentiles, belongs to and is for the Gentiles. What is written directly to the Church of God, belongs to and is for the Church of God. What does God mean when He tells us that the visions shown to Isaiah was concerning Judah and Jerusalem? It was not addressed to us or written concerning us, but it was addressed to and concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It would be dishonest for the Church of God to interpret to the Church of God what God said concerns Israel.

The present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. It deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. It's a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. From this our Grace administration, we learn God’s secret purpose that He had placed in Himself, according to the administration of Grace, which was first revealed to the apostle Paul.

From the eighth chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” and “that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

From the sixth chapter of the book of Deuteronomy, it was written to those who lived under the Law administration, “it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.” However, from the third chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.” What was written to those who lived under the Law administration is the complete opposite of what is written to us who live under the Grace administration.

But you throw baptism under the Law..Yet there were many baptisms.

Is making a committment to follow Christ through water baptism under the Law?
I don't know about what you and your people say... why can't some things belong in both the old and new.

Love for example is not a new command

 

[Corinth77777]

Romans 3_19-20
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

So why put Water Baptism under the law because it is a command?
So any thing commanded is still under the law?
This is the point Im trying to make in the way you are throwing thing in each box.

Where do you place the command to love? And again why can't the same things be in both?

Just like in a second marriage. In the first marriage the woman vowed to cook dinner if the man bought her food. (He died lol dont know why lol)

In the second marriage after the first man's death she vowed to cook dinner Because she wanted to see the man healthy rather he bought the food or not.
( He lived )

Point being there were things that were the same in each- that the woman would cook but the conditions which one would cook were different.

Scripture says:The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

So is John's teaching of Baptism of repentance in water under the law? If the law was until John. One way I see Water Baptism is in accepting a teaching.
In this case making themselve ready to receive their King. I do have a feeling though that the disciples were preaching baptism of repentance.

 

[Corinth77777]

I was never water baptized. It serves no purpose.

According to ?

 

[Free]

The historical, orthodox position of Christianity is that Jesus is God in human flesh.
I believe if Jesus was on this site he would not be able to say who he is. And that's what I think about the historical, orthodox position of Christianity.

And, yet, you have not addressed any of the verses I posted. If you want to discuss this one verse at a time (which, as I've stated, is impossible), pick a verse and let's discuss. Maybe John 1:1.

who claims to be a biblical scholar.
Oh no I never said I was a biblical scholar. I said I was one of the most knowledgeable men on the planet concerning the subject of the resurrected Christ Jesus.

You claimed to be "a Bible expert," which means you would have to be a biblical scholar. If you don't have a relevant PhD. and haven't done research and written journal articles, then you cannot claim to be a Bible expert.

There is nothing to suggest that it isn't without water.
There is nothing to suggest it was water since water produces nothing. It did nothing for Israel. It redeemed nobody. It saved nobody from sin. It got nobody saved.

It has nothing to do with whether or not it produces something, or whether or not it saves people. It has everything to do with Jesus commanding it. That is why the disciples then carried on doing it after his ascension. It also missed the obvious point that much in the OT rites pointed to Jesus and his death and resurrection.

But that water baptism seems to do something:

Rom 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. (ESV)

It's used as a word to describe immersion and used that way in the New Testament as a Rite from the Old Testament when they used to immerse in water.

Exactly.

 

[Peterlag7]

And, yet, you have not addressed any of the verses I posted. If you want to discuss this one verse at a time (which, as I've stated, is impossible), pick a verse and let's discuss. Maybe John 1:1.


You claimed to be "a Bible expert," which means you would have to be a biblical scholar. If you don't have a relevant PhD. and haven't done research and written journal articles, then you cannot claim to be a Bible expert.


It has nothing to do with whether or not it produces something, or whether or not it saves people. It has everything to do with Jesus commanding it. That is why the disciples then carried on doing it after his ascension. It also missed the obvious point that much in the OT rites pointed to Jesus and his death and resurrection.

But that water baptism seems to do something:

Rom 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. (ESV)


Exactly.

I don't see the word water mentioned in Romans and I am one of the most knowledgeable guys on the planet concerning the subject of the resurrected Christ Jesus. You keep calling me an expert and a scholar and I never said any such thing. And if you want to talk about John 1:1. Then this is how I see it...

Jesus Christ is not a lexical definition of logos. The verse does not say "In the beginning was Jesus." The "Word" is not synonymous with Jesus, or even the "Messiah." The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God's creative self-expression... His reason, purpose and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God's self-expression or communication of Himself. This has come to pass through His creation and especially the heavens. It has come through the spoken word of the prophets and through Scripture. Most notably it has come into being through His Son. The logos is the expression of God and is His communication of Himself just as a "word" is an outward expression of a person's thoughts. This outward expression of God has now occurred through His Son and thus it's perfectly understandable why Jesus is called the "Word." Jesus is an outward expression of God's reason, wisdom, purpose and plan. For the same reason we call revelation "a word from God" and the Bible "the Word of God."

If we understand that the logos is God's expression... His plan, purpose, reason and wisdom. Then it is clear they were with Him "in the beginning." Scripture says God's wisdom was "from the beginning" and it was common in Hebrew writing to personify a concept such as wisdom. The fact that the logos "became" flesh shows it did not exist that way before. There is no pre-existence for Jesus in this verse other than his figurative "existence" as the plan, purpose or wisdom of God for the salvation of man. The same is true with the "word" in writing. It had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.

 

[Peterlag7]

According to ?

How I understand the New Testament and E.W. Bullinger, who is indeed an awesome Bible scholar.

 

[Peterlag7]

So why put Water Baptism under the law because it is a command?
So any thing commanded is still under the law?
This is the point Im trying to make in the way you are throwing thing in each box.

Where do you place the command to love? And again why can't the same things be in both?

Just like in a second marriage. In the first marriage the woman vowed to cook dinner if the man bought her food. (He died lol dont know why lol)

In the second marriage after the first man's death she vowed to cook dinner Because she wanted to see the man healthy rather he bought the food or not.
( He lived )

Point being there were things that were the same in each- that the woman would cook but the conditions which one would cook were different.

Scripture says:The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

So is John's teaching of Baptism of repentance in water under the law? If the law was until John. One way I see Water Baptism is in accepting a teaching.
In this case making themselve ready to receive their King. I do have a feeling though that the disciples were preaching baptism of repentance.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[Peterlag7]

What adminstation is one under if they are not in Christ? Are they still under the Law administration the same time there is a grace administration going on?

Galatians 5:1-5
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 

[Follower Of Christ]

You keep calling me an expert and a scholar and I never said any such thing. And if you want to talk about John 1:1. Then this is how I see it...

See post #316. Your original post about your claim to be a bible expert is embedded in there at the beginning.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Galatians 5:1-5
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

I am going to quote only scripture in this post as a reply to you and then I am done contributing to this thread.

James 2:19-24 "You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

1 John 4:1-6 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error."

Peace and love to you all!

 

[hawkman]

You keep calling me an expert and a scholar and I never said any such thing.

I do not evade questions since I'm an expert on the New Testament and have no reason to fear questions.

I am an expert in the New Testament and so one would think I have already done my own studying and as far as not answering your question.

 

[Corinth77777]

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

That does not answer the question