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How was the Thief on the Cross Saved?

  • Thread starter TruthSeeker2012
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Roof said:
If he has 5 minutes then a thief in the 2011 has time to repent
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If he has 5 minutes to live, lived all his life with the rejection of Christ, what must he do in his last 5 minutes to be saved? Define "repent"? How can he "repent" on his deathbed for his last 5 minutes to be saved? What kind of "repenting" or "works" must he do on his deathbed in his last 5 minutes to be saved?
 
handy said:
Yep, he sure did....2000 years later we are still being ministered to, challenged and taught by his testimony of repentance and faith. What's more, long after all my "fruit" has been harvested and brought in and I'm laid to rest and turned to dust, the thief's fruit will still be of use to God and the Church as long as the Scriptures remain.
Click to expand...

So if I reject God all my life and not live for Christ, yet on my deathbed with 5 minutes to live, I can ask God to save me and place faith in Jesus and be saved...and then a family member wrote a sentence about my last 5 minutes on earth and how I invited Jesus into my heart with 5 minutes left to live, and through my 5 minutes faith before I died + through my FAMILY MEMBER WORKS of writing about my last 5 minutes, I am saved? Yes or No?

But let's say nobody wrote about the thief's salvation experience next to Jesus at Calvary, does that mean the thief would have been lost? Yes or No?
 
Hi TruthSeeker???

I did not indicate the thief was saved by faith alone when he was under the old covenant. Stop putting words in my mouth. This is the 2nd time I've asked you to do this.

TruthSeeker wrote: ''IT COMES ACROSS AS YOU ARE FRIGHTENED OFF BY MY QUESTIONS WHEN YOU KEEP EVADING THEM."

Sir, if I'm frightened off by you please tell me why I have invited you to take this matter of the thief to the level of the debate forum?? Will you do it?
 
TruthSeeker2012 said:
Define "works", and give me an example of your weekly works that you refer to. What kind of deeds and behavior and human effort are you performing during the week to classify it as "doing works" of sincere faith, and how much "works" do you do each week for you to believe it's a result from genuine faith?

I await your reply with interest. Thank you. :thumbsup
Click to expand...

You're asking me to do something that I don't think is appropriate to do. I am not going to write a checklist of my "works" to either boast or satisfy your ego. It's not about doing this or doing that checking off this item and that item. All I can tell you is that because Jesus first loved me I can love Him and in my love for Him I desire to do right by Him. It's not really a choice I make its more of a desire that builds within me. The more I become aware of my relationship with Jesus, the closer I get to Him, and the more I indulge in His love the more I find that certain sinful behaviors in my life have less and less meaning for me and I no longer desire to fulfill those same desires I once did. I now find myself with new desires that are uncharacteristically me and they continue to grow. I don't get up in the morning and consciously think to myself, "Well, today I'm going to
A. blah, blah, blah
B. blah, blah, blah
C. blah, blah, blah
D. blah, bl......"

Instead, I wake up in the morning and I thank God for another day and ask Him to lead me where He wants me to go and for Him to guide me to do what He wants me to do.
 
Webb said:
Hi TruthSeeker???

I did not indicate the thief was saved by faith alone when he was under the old covenant. Stop putting words in my mouth. This is the 2nd time I've asked you to do this.

TruthSeeker wrote: ''IT COMES ACROSS AS YOU ARE FRIGHTENED OFF BY MY QUESTIONS WHEN YOU KEEP EVADING THEM."

Sir, if I'm frightened off by you please tell me why I have invited you to take this matter of the thief to the level of the debate forum?? Will you do it?
Click to expand...

That's great Webb, you are NOT frightened off my question and not scared to give a DIRECT and HONEST answer! :thumbsup

So on that note, please answer this question:

Can a thief living in the year 2011, whos last works were stealing, be saved on his deathbed in the year 2011 under the NEW COVENANT with 5 minutes to live and no opportunity to produce any good works for God?

Yes or No?
 
WIP said:
You're asking me to do something that I don't think is appropriate to do....
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I disagree!!! I think it's a fair and valid question and I think you should answer me instead of sidestepping and hiding from my question.

If you believe that a person can lose their justification, please answer this question...there are 168 hours per week, 8736 hours per year. How many of those hours does a person have to keep Gods Law and Commandments before they are justified and remain justified?

If a person keeps Gods Commandments 50 hours every week, is that enough for you to give them a tick of approval for their Salvation? Or is it 120 hours per week? If that is the case, what happens to the person who keeps Gods Commandments 119 hours per week? Are they lost by 1 hour?

Where does it end? Will there be cases where someone had FAITH IN JESUS but was only able to do "good works" for 1 hour per week, does that mean they are LOST due to lack of works where another person gets saved because they did 120 hours per week "good works"? So even though they both had FAITH IN JESUS, one was lost and the other was saved because he did 119 more hours per week of "good works".

And that would mean we have MULTIPLE versions of the gospel, one gospel which saved the thief on the cross and the death bed acceptance of Jesus, where they can be saved by FAITH ALONE AND NO WORKS...but another gospel for everyone else which says they cannot be saved by FAITH ALONE, they also need to produce WORKS and HUMAN EFFORT to remain saved and to be saved!

Legalistic christians hate these type of questions and usually end up sidestepping and insulting me instead because they cannot address the questions.
 
TruthSeeker2012 said:
So if I reject God all my life and not live for Christ, yet on my deathbed with 5 minutes to live, I can ask God to save me and place faith in Jesus and be saved...and then a family member wrote a sentence about my last 5 minutes on earth and how I invited Jesus into my heart with 5 minutes left to live, and through my 5 minutes faith before I died + through my FAMILY MEMBER WORKS of writing about my last 5 minutes, I am saved? Yes or No?

But let's say nobody wrote about the thief's salvation experience next to Jesus at Calvary, does that mean the thief would have been lost? Yes or No?
Click to expand...

Seriously, this makes no sense to me whatsoever. Not only to I not get the question, I'm truly not getting the tone behind either.
 
Hi TruthSeeker???

Allow me to applly your "yes" or "no" trick to you.

Will you debate this question of the thief??? Yes or No?
 
TruthSeeker2012 said:
Who said the thief had done nothing wrong and what does the Bible say?
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I do not see in Luke where the thief is innocent. Where did you find that? Please tell me. The verse I posted has the thief admiting guilt and saying Jesus is innocent.

TruthSeeker2012 said:
Does the Bible also say the thief lived a life of doing nothing wrong? Yes or No?
Click to expand...
The thief confesses to christ in the verse I quoted.

TruthSeeker2012 said:
And what "good works" did the thief do to get himself paradise? Besides placing FAITH IN JESUS, what other "good works" did he do that contributed to his salvation?
Click to expand...

The thief confessed to Christ and defended Jesus when the other was mocking. If he did something else then provide where it is told.
 
Roof said:
I do not see in Luke where the thief is innocent. Where did you find that? Please tell me. The verse I posted has the thief admiting guilt and saying Jesus is innocent.


The thief confesses to christ in the verse I quoted.



The thief confessed to Christ and defended Jesus when the other was mocking. If he did something else then provide where it is told.
Click to expand...

So is this the WORKS you talk about that a person needs to do to be saved? To confess their GUILT? Yes or No?
 
Roof said:
That is the works of the thief on the cross, it was enough for him.
Click to expand...

So the only works the thief did was confess his guilt and you say his faith + guilt saved him and Jesus promised him Paradise. So I have a question.. is this the SAME GOSPEL and MEANS everyone can be saved by? FAITH + GUILT?
 
Roof said:
The thiefs last works were on the cross.

Luke 23

40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Click to expand...

I think it was his repentance that saved him.
 
TruthSeeker

May I suggest the following proposition:

The scriptures teach that the sinner today is saved like the thief on the cross.
Affirmed by TruthSeeker2012
Denied by Webb
 
Roof said:
So you dont deny that repentance can be works.
Click to expand...

That depends on your definition for "repentance".

To me and my belief, repentance is an ATTITUDE and state of mind and viewpoint about sin...it's not an action or behaviour, because if it was, then that means NOBODY has repented because nobody has perfectly turned from all their sins and become sinless.

A good example is Paul, who was SAVED when writing Romans 7:15...notice he was sinning terribly, but note his attitude towards the sinning shows he had repented.

Same applies to me..before I came to Christ I was sinning and didn't care, in fact I delighted in sinning. But when I was born again, I continued being a sinner but all of a sudden I hate and detest sin! That's repentance IMHO. :thumbsup

And along with a repented mind, certain behaviors will change, for example with me, I stopped having sexual sin, stopped dealing in drugs and stopped certain other behaviors. Not out of legalism or because I felt I had to, I did it because I wanted to and because God gave me a new heart.
 
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