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How was the Thief on the Cross Saved?

  • Thread starter TruthSeeker2012
  • Start date
francisdesales said:
JESUS WITHIN US is eternal life.

John is not speaking of a "go to heaven free" card. He is talking about the CURRENT ABIDING PRESENCE - Life Itself within us. That presence is not guaranteed. Jesus is the way, truth AND THE LIFE. AS we obey the commandments, we are assured of His presence within us, eternal life Itself. This does not speak of "having heaven in the future".

Regards
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1. Are you claiming salvation is not a FREE GIFT? Yes or No?

2. Do you keep God's Commandments and never sin? Yes or No?
 
Webb said:
TruthSeeker

Do you plan to give attention to posts # 35, 36?
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Been addressed before, scroll back through all my posts. You cannot skip my posts and then claim I never answered. So if you want to skip my posts and be too lazy to read my comments, then that's your problem, not mine.
 
StoveBolts said:
No, I do not believe that he could be saved...
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BY YOUR FRUIT I KNOW YOU!!!

You have clearly taught that you DO NOT BELIEVE a dying man in his death bed who turns to Christ by faith for salvation can be saved! This proves you are a false teacher of a false gospel and you deny salvation by faith and grace alone!:screwloose
 
TruthSeeker2012 said:
BY YOUR FRUIT I KNOW YOU!!!

You have clearly taught that you DO NOT BELIEVE a dying man in his death bed who turns to Christ by faith for salvation can be saved! This proves you are a false teacher of a false gospel and you deny salvation by faith and grace alone!:screwloose
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ha ha, give me a break.

What I am, is a very concise reader. In your question, you made no mention of this man turning to God, or showing any type of righteousness, nor any type of confession. According to your own words, the last thing that man did was stole.

I am posting again, just so you can read your own words once again.

Can a thief living in the year 2011, whos last works were stealing, be saved on his deathbed in the year 2011 under the NEW COVENANT with 5 minutes to live and no opportunity to produce any good works for God?

Yes or No?


What was the last thing the second man on the cross did? Did Christ say that both thieves were going to be in paradise, or just the one.

Now then, let me give you a very firm warning. If I ever hear you make that accusation against one of our members, I will have your account suspended immediately for a gross violation of our TOS. As it stands, I have thick skin, so lets put this behind us and move on ok? Fair?

You asked a few questions, and I answered. Now, please show me the same courtesy and answer the questions I have asked you.

Grace and Peace,
Your Brother in Christ, Jeff
 
lets see how we do posting from a smart phone lol

So you got me to thinking about fruits... Both fruits of the spirit (gal 5) and how that tied into the fruit in accordance to repentance which John spoke of.

We see two criminals, both on a cross. I would be interested if the thief who was saved was on the right... But none the less, one criminal showed the fruits of repentance as layed out in Gal 5, while the other showed the fruits of the flesh.

can you discern this?
 
TruthSeeker

I scrolled back, you answered "yes" to my question for debate. I proposed a proposition. I await your answer.
 
Webb said:
TruthSeeker

I scrolled back, you answered "yes" to my question for debate. I proposed a proposition. I await your answer.
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You asked me a question and I gave a direct and honest YES answer. If there is anything else in addition to that you want to know, then state your question to me now.
 
TruthSeeker

Yes, you did answer YES. I then submitted a proposition for your approval or disaproval. You have not answered.
 
There's no "and" -

" Galatians 5:4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

It mean what it says, of course, and one of the LARGEST problems just now in the church is that they HESITATE to proclaim themselves to be PERFECT In the sight of God - based ONLY in the finished work of Christ.

The tendency AMONG Christians is to believe that they're saved by The Blood of Jesus - and.

Except that there can BE no "And".
 
"Dead" Faith = NO "Faith"

"so faith without works is dead also."

OF course. Spurgeon used to say that a "Faith" that doesn't CHANGE a person, won't SAVE him either.

James is a LITMUS test for folks that "Claim" to have "faith" - but whose "faith" produces NOTHING by it's intrinsic nature. If it doesn't WORK - then it's NOT faith at all. Case closed.
 
StoveBolts said:
were both saved? Why, and what scriptures supports your view?
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One was saved and promised paradise and the other was lost! What was the difference between them? One placed faith in Jesus the other did not!
 
Re: "Dead" Faith = NO "Faith"

Bob Carabbio said:
.. If it doesn't WORK - then it's NOT faith at all. Case closed.
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1. Define "WORK".

2. What "WORK" did the thief on the cross do to get himself saved?

3. What about disabled people who cannot move out of their homes and who are unable to function? What "WORK" do they need to do to be saved?

4. Are disabled people saved by a DIFFERENT NO WORK gospel than those who are able to WORK?
 
TruthSeeker2012 said:
The thief on the cross was saved, Jesus promised Him Paradise. But why?

The thief did not keep the Sabbath, He did not live a life for Jesus. He did not love God or others, because if you steal from others, you cannot have sincere love and concern for them. He never shared Jesus with others. And his last works was STEALING!

Yet here he is being promised eternal life in Paradise and he will live in heaven forever and be rewarded with immortality.

So it's obvious, the thief was saved by FAITH ALONE, nothing else, because he had nothing else to offer, NO WORKS, NO OBEDIENCE, NO NOTHING!

So here is a question... Are we saved by the exact same gospel the thief was? Or are there multiple gospels? One for the Thief and a different one for us?

Many Christians try to tell me that I cannot be saved by faith and grace alone. They tell me I must live a life of obedience and produce many works and "live right" and please God with my actions, efforts, deeds and behaviour.

But if that's true, then we have in reality different gospel versions..one that saved the thief and the death bed acceptance of Jesus, and another gospel for me and others where we cannot be saved by faith and grace alone, but by faith + grace + works + obedience + fruit + etc.

So tell me folks... was the thief saved by the exact same gospel that all of mankind will be saved by? OR do you believe there are different gospels for different people?

What about the person dying on their death bed and ask to see a Minister and they accept Jesus into their heart two minutes before they die? Can they be in paradise, even though their whole life was filled with disobedience to God and rejection of God and their last works were rotten fruit?

So can they get into heaven by FAITH AND GRACE ALONE but we cannot?

Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together...
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It's always been of faith. Remember, Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. After we are "Born again" and the Holy Spirit has indwelt and sealed us, the good works will follow. Our own personal "righteousness's are as filthy rags without Christ. If a person is truly "born again" he's life WILL bring forth good works. We cannot work our way into Gods Holy presents by doing anything, apart from the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is Gods presents within us that creates good works and fruit. We cannot earn anything apart from His presence...
 
Grubal Muruch said:
It's always been of faith. Remember, Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. After we are "Born again" and the Holy Spirit has indwelt and sealed us, the good works will follow. Our own personal "righteousness's are as filthy rags without Christ. If a person is truly "born again" he's life WILL bring forth good works. We cannot work our way into Gods Holy presents by doing anything, apart from the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is Gods presents within us that creates good works and fruit. We cannot earn anything apart from His presence...
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Amen and I agree 100% :thumbsup

However, many people will not like your comments because they believe that we cannot be saved without adequate amounts of works and human effort.
 
Re: By Faith - ALONE

TruthSeeker2012 said:
INCORRECT! Your whole post is in error and you have misused the writings of James to support your false gospel which relies on your own works to please God and to be saved!
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Perhaps you should read what I wrote before you are so quick to judge my "error". Here is what I wrote:

Nothing I said denies that God makes the initiative to save man. Nor did I imply that man saves himself through being "good".

However, Biblical witness clearly points out that man must respond in order to be saved. This response doesn't earn anything, since salvation is already freely offered. But doing nothing is a rejection - and those who reject God will not be saved - see John 3.

I explicitly DENY what you accuse me of in your most recent post to me. Now, I would suggest you stop providing false witness against me. By YOUR fruits, you are known, correct?

Clearly, in written form, I have made specific mention that I do not believe that our works alone can save us. Do not accuse me of this again.

Regards
 
TruthSeeker2012 said:
One was saved and promised paradise and the other was lost! What was the difference between them? One placed faith in Jesus the other did not!
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Where in the text does it say the thief had faith?
I asked you earlier if you could discern the fruits of each man, and you said no... Yet you boldly proclaim what is not written.

what fruit was the thief who was saved bearing in accordance with gal 5? What of the thief who was lost? Please discern.

Earlier I asked if you could discern the fruits of the one who was saved, and the one who was lost and you said no... Yet you boldly proclaim
 
No matter at what point we receive Christ as Savior, as a small child or 5 minutes before death, if we are truly saved from above (Born again) we are considered a child of God and will be with Christ in Heaven, after life has ceased here on Earth.

Also, there will be no one cast into Hell because of their sins, only for their rejection of God's Salvation plan...
 
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