How was the Thief on the Cross Saved?

[TruthSeeker2012]

Yes.

It looks like others have explained what "work" he did, so I won't bore you with more details.

I disagree!!! The thief didn't do any "good works" at all, all he did was turn to Jesus by FAITH in his last moments. The thief's last works were STEALING, hence, he was called a thief and sentenced to the cross for his crimes!

 

[reba]

How was the thief on the cross saved?

He was completely saved. Thoroughly saved. Saved by the shed Blood of my Lord and Saviour Jesus the Christ.

 

[francisdesales]

That depends on your definition for "repentance".

To me and my belief, repentance is an ATTITUDE and state of mind and viewpoint about sin...it's not an action or behaviour,

What drives our actions and behavior?

I see a distinction without difference here.

because if it was, then that means NOBODY has repented because nobody has perfectly turned from all their sins and become sinless.

That is a faulty conclusion.

A good example is Paul, who was SAVED when writing Romans 7:15...notice he was sinning terribly, but note his attitude towards the sinning shows he had repented.

The wonderful thing about Christianity is the belief that we have an Intercessor who CONTINUES to plead at the right hand of the Father for our sake. A person can have an "attitude" towards sin today, and then later sin, driven by our passions of the moment.

There is no doubt that Paul did sin after he was saved. But he also repented - again.

The important part is that, moved by God's Spirit, we are convicted and again ask for Christ's forgiveness.

Jesus said we must forgive "seventy seven times" - I imagine He said this because HE ALSO is willing to forgive us over and over again.

Same applies to me..before I came to Christ I was sinning and didn't care, in fact I delighted in sinning. But when I was born again, I continued being a sinner but all of a sudden I hate and detest sin! That's repentance IMHO.

That's only part of repentance. Hating sin is one thing, being humble before God because we failed is another. The Pharisees also "hated sin"...

Jesus was not impressed with that alone.

And along with a repented mind, certain behaviors will change, for example with me, I stopped having sexual sin, stopped dealing in drugs and stopped certain other behaviors. Not out of legalism or because I felt I had to, I did it because I wanted to and because God gave me a new heart.

But you still sin. We all do. Do you convict yourself of "imperfect repentance" because you sometimes fail?

Repentance is necessary to be saved. Isn't that the opening lines of Mark's Gospel? Repent and believe?

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

I disagree!!! The thief didn't do any "good works" at all, all he did was turn to Jesus by FAITH in his last moments. The thief's last works were STEALING, hence, he was called a thief and sentenced to the cross for his crimes!

you have NO IDEA if the "thief" DID INDEED "do something" that is not recorded in Sacred Scriptures. Thus, you cannot say "the thief didn't do any good works". Perhaps he did.

NOR do we know that the 'thief' was indeed a "thief" who stole anything, as other Gospels consider him an insurrectionist. The Romans didn't crucify "thiefs"! They were insurrectionists, like Juddas Maccabean.

In addition, repenting of sin and believing that Jesus was a king of a kingdom (while on the cross, dying, for heaven's sake!!!) speaks volumes of that man's heart and the work involved.

I would like you to consider this:

Perhaps the "good thief" had indeed heard Jesus preach? Ask yourself HOW would this man know that Jesus was going to a Kingdom, his response in Luke's Gospel? Where did THAT come from, if this was the first time they met?

In addition, Maybe you should define "work"? It seems you and the Bible are in disagreement.

Regards

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

How was the thief on the cross saved?

He was completely saved. Thoroughly saved. Saved by the shed Blood of my Lord and Saviour Jesus the Christ.

Amen. Saved by faith alone + NO WORKS! And the same gospel he was saved by, ALL HUMANITY from beginning to end are saved by the same gospel.. FAITH + NO WORKS!

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 4:4-5 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

By Faith - ALONE

The church TENDS to Classify the thief "differently" because he was an "OLD Testament" person, but the simple fact is that salvation has ALWAYS been by Faith, and the thief placed HIS faith in Jesus - case closed.

AND "evangelicals", even while PREACHING salvation by faith alone - subtly ADD that one's salvation (which was by faith) MUST BE SUPPORTED by good works after the fact. VERY few folks really take the "Faith only" nature of salvation seriously.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Re: By Faith - ALONE

The church TENDS to Classify the thief "differently" because he was an "OLD Testament" person, but the simple fact is that salvation has ALWAYS been by Faith, and the thief placed HIS faith in Jesus - case closed.

AND "evangelicals", even while PREACHING salvation by faith alone - subtly ADD that one's salvation (which was by faith) MUST BE SUPPORTED by good works after the fact. VERY few folks really take the "Faith only" nature of salvation seriously.

And this is why Paul wrote Galatians 3.

"...Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" - Galatians 3:1-3

Paul rebuked them in Galatia, because they started believing that they are saved by the Holy Spirit but then needed to add human effort to finally get their salvation goal! And that's a type of WITCHCRAFT!

So this dangerous and false gospel that still exists today, is not salvation by works per se, but salvation by faith PLUS works. Unfortunately, this means then in reality that many Christians have 2 Saviours... Part Jesus, and part themselves! Jesus is not their sole 100% Saviour, because they also trust in themselves to save them through their own works and own human effort, so in reality, they have rejected Jesus as their complete Savior!

Any message about faith in Jesus’ death and life of righteousness for salvation, that adds human efforts into the equation, according to Paul “is really no gospel at all” Gal 1:7.

This means that the TRUE and only gospel of Christ is faith alone in the works of Jesus and the dying of Jesus. Having Jesus as your 100% Saviour.

Jesus must become your complete, total 100% Saviour.

Once you start looking at YOURSELF to contribute to your own salvation, you have rejected grace.

Galatians 5:4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Your thoughts Bob?

 

[Hawkins]

In accordance to the Second Covenant, Jesus Christ will be the Jugde. It means that you are saved when Jesus Christ says that "You are saved". Law can do nothing to Christians as follows of Jesus Christ.

Now the key point is, we need to make good guesses about under what circumstance Jesus Christ will give us a pass to heaven. Again, Law has no effect on true Christians, Christians just need a "Yes" from Jesus Christ.

So your best bet is to follow Christ teaching. Christ teaching in the Bible actually teaches you to secure your own salvation step by step continuously non-stop till you are holy. We don't wait for the last moment as the thief then say "Jesus I believe you". We should say this as soon as we can and then follow His teaching to go towards holiness.

In accordance to the covenant, we can be saved by faith alone. However, our good work will show us whether our faith is the correct kind of faith specified by the New Covenant. Without good work, we have no way to tell others as well as ourselves whether our faith is the correct kind of faith as required by the covenant and thus Jesus Christ will give us a pass.

To simply put, Jesus Christ decides if you have the correct kind of faith specified by the covenant, He judges our hearts. On the other hand, all you can do is to try your best to go toward holiness in accordance to Christ teaching. It is possible that the thief acquired the correct kind of faith at his last moment to get the pass from Jesus Christ. It is also possible that you will lose the pass due to your lack of good work though you are a long time Christian. Only with "O Lord O Lord" in your mouth but without a faith supported/indicated by your good work may well lead you to death.

 

[Saltwater]

Re: By Faith - ALONE

The church TENDS to Classify the thief "differently" because he was an "OLD Testament" person, but the simple fact is that salvation has ALWAYS been by Faith, and the thief placed HIS faith in Jesus - case closed.

AND "evangelicals", even while PREACHING salvation by faith alone - subtly ADD that one's salvation (which was by faith) MUST BE SUPPORTED by good works after the fact. VERY few folks really take the "Faith only" nature of salvation seriously.

Hello Bob Caribbio,

James clarifies the relationship between faith & works.
2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

So true faith will be supported/revealed by good works per Eph2:10 noting the word walk.

In Rom4 Paul presents Abraham as an OT person who was saved by faith alone noting in v12 where the image of walking is again presented as per Eph2:10.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

In accordance to the Second Covenant, Jesus Christ will be the Jugde. It means that you are saved when Jesus Christ says that "You are saved". ...

Are you saying that I cannot KNOW that I have ETERNAL LIFE?

 

[Hawkins]

Are you saying that I cannot KNOW that I have ETERNAL LIFE?

No you can't judge 100% correct. You can however make close guesses as indicated by one's good work.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Re: By Faith - ALONE

Hello Bob Caribbio,

James clarifies the relationship between faith & works.
2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also...

Many people have failed to properly understand James. James must be entirely read. He is talking about "faith without works is dead". A mere intellectual faith which doesn't change the life is not biblical faith. Biblical faith always demonstrates itself in works. See Ephesians 2:8-10 ... we are saved by grace not works, "In Order To Work".

Also, something very important most people miss, is that the demonstration of works in James is not works done to be witnessed by God but works done before men.. James says, "I will show you my faith by my works" [2:18] He is talking about demonstrating our works before humans and not God.

James does NOT say we need to work to be saved, but talks about the results of true Biblical faith in God will naturally produce works as a result of having been saved. He is talking about the genuine results of having been saved already and not to be saved.

James doesn't talk about our works performed for GOD and salvation at all!!!

Being saved by our own works is an invention of the Devil, and is in contradiction to Gods Word [Eph 2:8-9]! And that would mean that the thief on the cross will be in heaven WITHOUT works and FAITH ALONE, but we living in 2011 and beyond must be saved by FAITH + WORKS, which means there is a DIFFERENT gospel in 2011 than to the gospel the thief was saved by 2000 years ago!!! And whoever believes that does not not God or Scripture and are teaching the same BEWITCHING gospel that Paul rebuked in Galatians 3!

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

No you can't judge 100% correct. You can however make close guesses as indicated by one's good work.

So according to you, are these verses deceptive and in error? Yes or No?

1 John 5:12-13 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[francisdesales]

Re: By Faith - ALONE

Many people have failed to properly understand James. James must be entirely read. He is talking about "faith without works is dead". A mere intellectual faith which doesn't change the life is not biblical faith. Biblical faith always demonstrates itself in works. See Ephesians 2:8-10 ... we are saved by grace not works, "In Order To Work".

That is true. Which dismisses your point of "faith alone saves". A faith without works is evidence that your faith is inadequate for salvific purposes.

Also, something very important most people miss, is that the demonstration of works in James is not works done to be witnessed by God but works done before men.. James says, "I will show you my faith by my works" [2:18] He is talking about demonstrating our works before humans and not God.

What you are missing is that James chooses an incident where there were NO HUMAN WITNESSES to the act of faith working!!! Perhaps you should go back and read the passage from Genesis. Who was Abraham performing for? Which men was he trying to justify himself in front of? This is a relatively common attempt to sweep the meaning of James under the carpet (if one cannot simply just toss James into the fire...) While James uses an example of "showing my faith", it is NOT for that purpose that one displays their faith. It is NOT to justify themselves for other men's sake. James is saying that our faith must be on display, since love is, by nature, something on display! One CANNOT love without an outward action - or it is not love.

James does NOT say we need to work to be saved,

Oh, but he does, he says we are justified by works, but he certainly does not mean we are saved by works without faith... He says we are not saved by faith alone! But you preach otherwise???

There is no need to bring up a false dichotomy of faith v works. They go together in the man who loves God. A man who loves God loves his brother, so says John. That love is on display. Without those works, how can one say they love God or have the requisite faith needed to be salvific? Does "that" faith (without works of love) save? James asks this immediately after giving a hypothetical situation where the poor are ignored by Christians who speak of their "faith"...

but talks about the results of true Biblical faith in God will naturally produce works as a result of having been saved. He is talking about the genuine results of having been saved already and not to be saved.

The bible speaks of "being saved" ALSO as an ongoing event and a future event, not JUST an event of the past. The past event is "saved from sin", not "saved for heaven". No one can claim they are "saved for heaven" while still alive on this earth, only after the fact, after we are judged by Christ. By transposing the meaning of "being saved", you miss the boat and preach a false gospel..

James doesn't talk about our works performed for GOD and salvation at all!!!

You need to re-read James 2. ;) He speaks of "being saved" throughout.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

So according to you, are these verses deceptive and in error? Yes or No?

1 John 5:12-13 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

JESUS WITHIN US is eternal life.

John is not speaking of a "go to heaven free" card. He is talking about the CURRENT ABIDING PRESENCE - Life Itself within us. That presence is not guaranteed. Jesus is the way, truth AND THE LIFE. AS we obey the commandments, we are assured of His presence within us, eternal life Itself. This does not speak of "having heaven in the future".

Regards

 

[Webb]

TruthSeeker

Do you plan to give attention to posts # 35, 36?

 

[Levi]

JESUS WITHIN US is eternal life.

John is not speaking of a "go to heaven free" card. He is talking about the CURRENT ABIDING PRESENCE - Life Itself within us. That presence is not guaranteed. Jesus is the way, truth AND THE LIFE. AS we obey the commandments, we are assured of His presence within us, eternal life Itself. This does not speak of "having heaven in the future".

Regards

That is if you make the large assumption that salvation is accredited to the works of man!

By my reckonings it is the work of the Holy Spirit by which a man is born again and comes into eternal unity with God Himself through Jesus.

As it is written: “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.”

How can a man be snatched out of His hand? and how can a man perfect himself?

John5

5:24 "Most assuredly I tell you, he who hears my word,
and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment,
but has passed out of death into life.
5:25 Most assuredly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is,
when the dead will hear the Son of God's voice; and those who hear will live.
5:26 For as the Father has life in himself,
even so he gave to the Son also to have life in himself.
5:27 He also gave him authority to execute judgment, because he is a son of man.

The faith comes first (through hearing) then the works will follow as a matter of a new nature, not labor!

Who is it that does the will of God? it is he who believes in the one God sent

Who is it that has overcome the world? it is he that believes in the one who God has sent

James was talking about how to tell if a person is truly born again and is of faith or if they are living a religious existence.

Real faith demonstrates itself in works, it is the working out of salvation by fear and trembling, it is not a conscience decision that a believer makes but a matter of nature. The nature of the works are evident in the fruit that a person bears.

The fruits of the Spirit all lead to good works, we assume that works are some great heroic or philanthropic deeds, yet they may be as simple as forgiving those who wrong you against all worldly wisdom or not partaking in evil deeds with others so that our light may shine and cause others to require an explanation of this faith, which may lead to salvation for them.

I make this further statement:

Works without true faith are equally dead

 

[francisdesales]

That is if you make the large assumption that salvation is accredited to the works of man!

By my reckonings it is the work of the Holy Spirit by which a man is born again and comes into eternal unity with God Himself through Jesus.

Nothing I said denies that God makes the initiative to save man. Nor did I imply that man saves himself through being "good".

However, Biblical witness clearly points out that man must respond in order to be saved. This response doesn't earn anything, since salvation is already freely offered. But doing nothing is a rejection - and those who reject God will not be saved - see John 3.

Regards

 

[stovebolts]

Can a thief living in the year 2011, whos last works were stealing, be saved on his deathbed in the year 2011 under the NEW COVENANT with 5 minutes to live and no opportunity to produce any good works for God?

Yes or No?

No, I do not believe that he could be saved. If he could, don't you think Jesus would have said, "You both will be in paradise". Why didn't he speak to both of them in regard to Paradise?

I realize that we view works differently. But at it's most basic point, a work, is anything that we do, or sometimes don't do. In my theological glass house, I wouldn't always call stealing a work though. I'd call it a lack of work. It's the failure to "do" something, "Work". When one works, he gets what is due him by way of a wage. A thief on the other hand, also gets what is due him for his lack of work, which could also be counted to him as a wage. And we all know what the wages of sin are.

But I digress, The last thing the thief on the cross did was identify a resounding truth. A truth that the other thief was unable to see. Why was the other thief unable to see it, only God knows. Sometimes we harden our own hearts, and other times, when we remain in our stubbornness and refuse to come around to what is right, God hardens our hearts.

So my question to you is this. The thief that was saved, what was it that he was able to see?

And of the other thief... what was he unable to see?

God knows our hearts, and he always responds accordingly. We judge by outward appearances, but we ought to be able to step back a foot or two, and try to see things as God sees them on occasion.

.02

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Re: By Faith - ALONE

That is true. Which dismisses your point of "faith alone saves". A faith without works is evidence that your faith is inadequate for salvific purposes...

INCORRECT! Your whole post is in error and you have misused the writings of James to support your false gospel which relies on your own works to please God and to be saved!

Being saved by our own works is an invention of the Devil, and is in contradiction to Gods Word [Eph 2:8-9], and this claims that when Jesus said it is FINISHED[John 19:30] that Jesus lied!

Those who claim that any personal works will save them, are calling Jesus a liar, and have heard the Gospel and GOOD NEWS but have not understood or refused to!

The act of faith which thus secures our justification secures also at the same time our sanctification and thus the doctrine of justification by faith does not lead to licentiousness (Rom. 6:2-7). Good works, while not the ground, are the certain consequence, fruit and result of justification (6:14; 7:6)