How will the world explain the rapture?

[Sissy]

The harvest with the sickle and the gathering of the elect are the same event.

Revelation 14
(14) And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
(15) And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
(16) And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.




There is only one harvest, one gathering of the elect, one resurrection into incorruptible bodies.
In other words, there is only one “raptureâ€, and it occurs on the last day.
There is not another “rapture†after that, there is not another gathering of the elect after that, and there is not another resurrection into incorruptible bodies after that.
There is no special rapture for some of the saints, and another one for later saints.



***continued in next post***

​

 

[Sissy]

That last day will be as the day of Noah’s flood.
The elect were gathered into the ark, and the rest were destroyed.

Matthew 24
(36)But of that day and hour knoweth noman,no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
(37)But as the days of Noewere,so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(38)For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
(39)And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
​

It is the same concept as the parable.
The elect are gathered into the barn (with Christ), and the rest are gathered and destroyed (burned).


And this all happens after the tribulation.

Matthew 24
(29)Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(30)And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(31)And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
​

***continued in next post***

 

[Sissy]

The resurrected elect are gathered safely with Christ in the air (New Jerusalem).
The wicked are left on earth, Satan brings them together to compass the city (New Jerusalem); and they are burned as the earth melts with fervent heat.


And the saints will live in a new heaven and earth.

2 Peter 3
(10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(11)Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
righteousness.
(12) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
(13) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth ​

 

[Vic C.]

That would be a "post-post rapture".:rolling
I suppose those of us left behind to dwell on the forum would be a lot less tormented.:D

It's fascinating that a thread about how the unbelieving world might explain a rapture ironically exposes the fact that even believers can't satisfactorily explain a rapture amongst themselves.:bicker :shocked

Absolutely priceless!

 

[watchman F]

Does it say He comes to earth? No, He descends to the firmament where we meet Him. that is not His triumphant second coming. He is taking His Bride first. Then He comes with her to establish His earthly throne...seven years later.

Ridiculous

 

[freeway]

Ridiculous

nice come back there, watchman..
Where does it say that the last trumpet you talk about is also the last trumpet for the rapture? Also the last trumpet is followed by the bowl judgments, or is there another trumpet you look for?
As I always say. If we as Christians are raptured at the end of tribulation, then who repopulates the world. the Jews have also turned to Jesus and have become born again Christians.. Who are the sheep and goats? and why are the goats there they have no mark of the beast? What about the wedding feast? What about going to the fathers house as Jesus promised? What about the wedding itself? What about the ones John sees in heaven around the throne "elders"? Why is there no mention of the church during the tribulation? What and why does God use the 2 wittinesses and never mention the church? Why does God use and seal 144,000 Jewish men? and yet the "whole" world is tormented for six months by locust? including us Christians? Also why are we to be looking the imminent return of Jesus, Paul was looking for Him and so has any and all christian since Jesus went to heaven to get a place ready for us, except for you post tribers. All I have to do is count down the days from the time the AC desecrates the temple 1260 days...umm sound like the church is not in the tribulation.. pre trib rapture for me baby.....I know this is off topic of the OP but this seems to be the way the thread has gone

 

[Alabaster]

Ridiculous

When it happens, you will want to eat that word.

 

[freeway]

Originally Posted by watchman F
Ridiculous

When it happens, you will want to eat that word.

Very true..Alabaster, as I like to say of the post tribers, on the way up at the pre rapture I'll try and not say "I told you so"

 

[Strangelove]

There is only one harvest, one gathering of the elect, one resurrection into incorruptible bodies.

In other words, there is only one “raptureâ€, and it occurs on the last day.
There is not another “rapture†after that, there is not another gathering of the elect after that, and there is not another resurrection into incorruptible bodies after that.
There is no special rapture for some of the saints, and another one for later saints.
​

​

​

Brillian postings Sissy. God bless you.

But they just won't listen. Why?
​

 

[Strangelove]

nice come back there, watchman..
Where does it say that the last trumpet you talk about is also the last trumpet for the rapture? Also the last trumpet is followed by the bowl judgments, or is there another trumpet you look for?
As I always say. If we as Christians are raptured at the end of tribulation, then who repopulates the world. the Jews have also turned to Jesus and have become born again Christians.. Who are the sheep and goats? and why are the goats there they have no mark of the beast? What about the wedding feast? What about going to the fathers house as Jesus promised? What about the wedding itself? What about the ones John sees in heaven around the throne "elders"? Why is there no mention of the church during the tribulation? What and why does God use the 2 wittinesses and never mention the church? Why does God use and seal 144,000 Jewish men? and yet the "whole" world is tormented for six months by locust? including us Christians? Also why are we to be looking the imminent return of Jesus, Paul was looking for Him and so has any and all christian since Jesus went to heaven to get a place ready for us, except for you post tribers. All I have to do is count down the days from the time the AC desecrates the temple 1260 days...umm sound like the church is not in the tribulation.. pre trib rapture for me baby.....I know this is off topic of the OP but this seems to be the way the thread has gone

Instead of asking a thousand disjointed questions in one paragraph why dont you try explaining one and looking for an answer.

Lets start with repopulating the world. Where does scripture say there is any repopulation after the gathering together of the elect?

 

[Sissy]

Brillian postings Sissy. God bless you.

But they just won't listen. Why?
[/INDENT][/INDENT]

Well, Doc, they can't and still hold to the doctrine of pre-trib.
Pre-trib has to invent two classes of saints for the doctrine to fit because of the glaring scriptural proofs that there are saints DURING the tribulation.
It's a classic case of doctrine ruling scripture rather than scripture ruling doctrine.

But be patient.

The view that God can take one out of the world before the rest is not unbiblical.
Case in point - Enoch.

The view that God can protect some while still being present during tribulation is also not unbiblical.
Case in point - Noah & family.

And the view that God will let some be persecuted by Satan is also not unbiblical.
Case in point - Job.

ALL the folks listed above were faithful (saints).
And God used all their situations for His glory.

But to say that ALL saints MUST be taken out before tribulation,
or ALL the saints MUST be protected during tribulation,
or ALL the saints MUST be persecuted during tribulation
just might be a little presumptuous.

So, if you are a saint, then be PREPARED to accept whatever situation God has in store for you.
For no matter which situation you are in, it will be to God's glory.

 

[Alabaster]

Haha! Two classes of saints?

No--but there are two dispensations. The Church Age, which closes suddenly when the saints of the world, dead and alive are removed, and then the ensuing Tribulation age which lasts seven years and will produce many new converts under duress, and many martyrs.

 

[Strangelove]

Haha! Two classes of saints?

No--but there are two dispensations. The Church Age, which closes suddenly when the saints of the world, dead and alive are removed, and then the ensuing Tribulation age which lasts seven years and will produce many new converts under duress, and many martyrs.

Jewish...................Fables:

Dual covenant
Pre-trib rapture
Dispensationalism
Earthly Millenial Kingdom.

The false messiah is gonna have a field day with all this....

...and Christian Zionists are.................sitting ducks!

 

[Strangelove]

So, if you are a saint, then be PREPARED to accept whatever situation God has in store for you.
For no matter which situation you are in, it will be to God's glory.

I think this is crucial. Why have so much invested in a theory that at best has the Christian Church split right down the middle and at worst is held by particular denominations that display so much error in other issues?

We are told quite clearly that we will have tribulation in our lives.

So be PREPARED for it!

 

[Alabaster]

I think this is crucial. Why have so much invested in a theory that at best has the Christian Church split right down the middle and at worst is held by particular denominations that display so much error in other issues?

We are told quite clearly that we will have tribulation in our lives.

So be PREPARED for it!

Why do people who read that we will all experience tribulation in our lives extrapolate that we will experience The Great Tribulation?

There is judgment in the Tribulation and we, the Church are not going to experience judgment. God says so.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 AmplifiedFor God has not appointed us to [incur His] wrath [He did not select us to condemn us], but [that we might] obtain [His] salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah)

 

[jasoncran]

Jewish...................Fables:

Dual covenant
Pre-trib rapture
Dispensationalism
Earthly Millenial Kingdom.

The false messiah is gonna have a field day with all this....

...and Christian Zionists are.................sitting ducks!

i guess you know more then the apostle paul,then as he doesnt know he meant by this when isiah prophecied this in IS 25:7 and paul said it again in 2 corinthians 3:15-17. and that refers to that time of isreal's return as a nation and the time of the gentiles(the church age is gone)

buy hey you know better then the lord when he said that he would use the gentile to provoke isreal.

and you are wrong. i'm sure if one is in the lord. you are aware that tommorow isnt promised.

 

[Strangelove]

Why do people who read that we will all experience tribulation in our lives extrapolate that we will experience The Great Tribulation?

Uhm...because we are told in Revelation (the book of the Endtimes) that we will get 10 days of tribulation ending in death!

2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil
shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye
shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I
will give thee a crown of life.​

Plus who are these who come out of the great trib >>>

7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These
are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their
robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.​

There is judgment in the Tribulation and we, the Church are not going to experience judgment. God says so.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 AmplifiedFor God has not appointed us to [incur His] wrath [He did not select us to condemn us], but [that we might] obtain [His] salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah)

Show me anywhere in Revelation where the saints are affected by any of God's judgements?

You've already been shown these truth's and have chosen to ignore it.

 

[Strangelove]

i guess you know more then the apostle paul,then as he doesnt know he meant by this when isiah prophecied this in IS 25:7 and paul said it again in 2 corinthians 3:15-17. and that refers to that time of isreal's return as a nation and the time of the gentiles(the church age is gone)

buy hey you know better then the lord when he said that he would use the gentile to provoke isreal.

and you are wrong. i'm sure if one is in the lord. you are aware that tommorow isnt promised.

Dunno what yer talking about or how it relates to this topic.

 

[watchman F]

Brillian postings Sissy. God bless you.

But they just won't listen. Why?
[/INDENT][/INDENT]

I agree with both of these statements.

 

[watchman F]

Well, Doc, they can't and still hold to the doctrine of pre-trib.
Pre-trib has to invent two classes of saints for the doctrine to fit because of the glaring scriptural proofs that there are saints DURING the tribulation.
It's a classic case of doctrine ruling scripture rather than scripture ruling doctrine.

But be patient.

The view that God can take one out of the world before the rest is not unbiblical.
Case in point - Enoch.

The view that God can protect some while still being present during tribulation is also not unbiblical.
Case in point - Noah & family.

And the view that God will let some be persecuted by Satan is also not unbiblical.
Case in point - Job.

ALL the folks listed above were faithful (saints).
And God used all their situations for His glory.

But to say that ALL saints MUST be taken out before tribulation,
or ALL the saints MUST be protected during tribulation,
or ALL the saints MUST be persecuted during tribulation
just might be a little presumptuous.

So, if you are a saint, then be PREPARED to accept whatever situation God has in store for you.
For no matter which situation you are in, it will be to God's glory.

Amen sissy.

Pretrib ''Theologians'' teach that Jesus comes before the tribulation, secretly in the clouds, to snatch the church from the earth, and take us to Heaven. So that we will miss the tribulation period, spending it in Heaven, celebrating the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. While the unbelievers are left behind to suffer the wrath of God here on earth.

Sounds real nice, only problem is, the Bible never teaches that Jesus comes before the tribulation. It doesn't say there will be a secret return of Christ at all. It never teaches us that we go to Heaven after the resurrection and/ or ''rapture'' of the just. The Bible does not say that we will miss the tribulation period, nor does it say when or where the Marriage Supper of the Lamb takes place. You will not find any aspect of the pretrib teaching in scripture.

The Bible does teach however that Jesus will come to the earth twice, once to be the sacrifice for our sins and secondly to set up his Kingdom here on earth. He came the first time 2,000 years ago and fulfilled His obligation as the sacrificial Lamb of God, and He is returning a second time after the tribulation, before the Millennium, to resurrect the just, catch away the living saints, bring judgment to the wicked, and declare his Kingship here on earth.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear a second time without sin unto salvation.

There is no mention in scripture of a partial coming or secret coming (where He doesn't really return because His feet didn't touch the ground, but instead He just came in the clouds to get the church and go back to Heaven) nor is there any mention of a third coming of Christ.

This entire belief system is based on conjecture, speculation, and false hope created by Satan to keep the church unaware and unprepared for the perilous times to come. Which we will have to face all types of persecutions even martyrdom for Christ sake (yes even here in America). However if we suffer for Christ we shall also reign with him during the Millennium.
2nd Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with Him, if we deny Him, He will also deny us.