I have a question for a Post-Trib advocate

[MisterE]

Friend, there are not two Returns. There are two RESURRECTIONS. Read Revelation 19 and 20. The "first return" which "pre-trib" Christians "see" in the Holy Scriptures is simply describing the FIRST RESURRECTION of the Church, which occurs at the singular Second Coming described in Revelation 19.
This topic exemplifies why Sola Scriptura is a false doctrine. One would think that if the Apostles ever taught two Second Comings to the Church that it would have been a staple doctrine in the first and second century Church Fathers; but it is nowhere to be seen.

Did you want to reply to my post? I showed there are two returns (using your definitions). If you don't want to respond to the contrasting columns, I will be more than wiling to remove them.

 

[Dyonisius the Areopagite]

Did you want to reply to my post? I showed there are two returns (using your definitions). If you don't want to respond to the contrasting columns, I will be more than wiling to remove them.

I contend that you showed no such thing. Your analysis does not take Revelation 19 and 20 into account. Nor does it take the Witness of the Early Church into account.

 

[hawkman]

Darby invented it.

Second Comings to the Church that it would have been a staple doctrine in the first and second century Church Fathers; but it is nowhere to be seen.

Early Church , first and second century . The Pretribulation Rapture Has Been Taught Throughout Christian History

Irenaeus
Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) was a bishop of the church in Lyons, France. He was an eyewitness to the Apostle John (who wrote the Book of Revelation) and a disciple of Polycarp, the first of the Apostle John’s disciples. Irenaeus is most-known for his five-volume treatise, Against Heresies in which he exposed the false religions and cults of his day along with advice for how to share the Gospel with those were a part of them.

In his writings on Bible prophecy, he acknowledged the phrase “a time, times and dividing of times” in Daniel 7 to signify the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist as ruler of the world before the Second Coming of Christ. He also believed in a literal Millennial reign of Christ on earth following the Second Coming and the resurrection of the just.

On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies 5.29, he wrote:

“Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons “as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing;”(1) so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”(2) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”

Irenaeus in this passage describes the church leaving the sinful world just before unprecedented disasters. Note his use of the term “caught up” which is Rapture terminology as that is the meaning of harpazo, the term for “caught up” in the King James Bible describing the Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4. He then quotes Matthew 24:21 where The Lord Jesus Christ says: “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” And it is during this time that those who convert to Christianity during the final years will receive the incorruptible crown mentioned by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:25. In Irenaeus’ belief, the Rapture took place prior to the end times Great Tribulation.

Cyprian
Cyprian (200 AD – 258 AD) – Cyprian was Bishop of the church in Carthage. During his short stint as leader of the church, he guided the flock through intense persecution at the hands of the Roman Empire. In 258 AD after spending seven months of confinement to his home by order of Roman authorities, he was beheaded for his faith. Several of his works still exist today.

In Treatises of Cyprian he wrote in describing the end times Great Tribulation:

“We who see that terrible things have begun, and know that still more terrible things are imminent, may regard it as the greatest advantage to depart from it as quickly as possible. Do you not give God thanks, do you not congratulate yourself, that by an early departure you are taken away, and delivered from the shipwrecks and disasters that are imminent? Let us greet the day which assigns each of us to his own home, which snatches us hence, and sets us free from the snares of the world and restores us to paradise and the kingdom.”

Again we see use of language commonly found in reference to the Rapture as Cyprian describes the judgments of the end times as “imminent.” And he makes his belief on the timing of the Rapture when he wrote that Christians will have an “early departure” and be “delivered” from the devastating global judgments that come during the Day of The Lord.

In line with the Apostle Paul who wrote that “God has not appointed us to wrath, but salvation...” Cyprian expressed joy and encourages the believing reader to rejoice that the Church will be “taken away” before the disastrous Great Tribulation. Just as The Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 24 used the same language of one “taken away” and the other “left.” Additionally Cyprian references the mansions which The Lord Jesus Christ promises to come back and take His believers to in John 14.

“Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.” – John 14:1-3.

 

[MisterE]

I contend that you showed no such thing. Your analysis does not take Revelation 19 and 20 into account. Nor does it take the Witness of the Early Church into account.

Don't worry, i wasn't expecting a legitimate answer. No Post Tribber has ever responded to those two columns.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Those in the Revelation who are persecuted and martyred by the Beast are honored and praised--not condemned as having "missed the Rapture." You seem to want to twist things around?

So in your mind are the millions of Christians that were murdered & persecuted for the last 2000 years up to today are not " honored and praised " ?
You seem to suggest being murdered for Christ over the last 2000 years is just a mediocre sort of martyrdom compared to the much higher & more honorable privilege of being martyred during the revelation ?
Do I have that right , you really believe there are higher and lower classes of martyrs ?

 

[RandyK]

Early Church , first and second century . The Pretribulation Rapture Has Been Taught Throughout Christian History

Irenaeus
Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) was a bishop of the church in Lyons, France. He was an eyewitness to the Apostle John (who wrote the Book of Revelation) and a disciple of Polycarp, the first of the Apostle John’s disciples. Irenaeus is most-known for his five-volume treatise, Against Heresies in which he exposed the false religions and cults of his day along with advice for how to share the Gospel with those were a part of them.

In his writings on Bible prophecy, he acknowledged the phrase “a time, times and dividing of times” in Daniel 7 to signify the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist as ruler of the world before the Second Coming of Christ. He also believed in a literal Millennial reign of Christ on earth following the Second Coming and the resurrection of the just.

On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies 5.29, he wrote:


Irenaeus in this passage describes the church leaving the sinful world just before unprecedented disasters. Note his use of the term “caught up” which is Rapture terminology as that is the meaning of harpazo, the term for “caught up” in the King James Bible describing the Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4. He then quotes Matthew 24:21 where The Lord Jesus Christ says: “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” And it is during this time that those who convert to Christianity during the final years will receive the incorruptible crown mentioned by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:25. In Irenaeus’ belief, the Rapture took place prior to the end times Great Tribulation.

Cyprian
Cyprian (200 AD – 258 AD) – Cyprian was Bishop of the church in Carthage. During his short stint as leader of the church, he guided the flock through intense persecution at the hands of the Roman Empire. In 258 AD after spending seven months of confinement to his home by order of Roman authorities, he was beheaded for his faith. Several of his works still exist today.

In Treatises of Cyprian he wrote in describing the end times Great Tribulation:


Again we see use of language commonly found in reference to the Rapture as Cyprian describes the judgments of the end times as “imminent.” And he makes his belief on the timing of the Rapture when he wrote that Christians will have an “early departure” and be “delivered” from the devastating global judgments that come during the Day of The Lord.

In line with the Apostle Paul who wrote that “God has not appointed us to wrath, but salvation...” Cyprian expressed joy and encourages the believing reader to rejoice that the Church will be “taken away” before the disastrous Great Tribulation. Just as The Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 24 used the same language of one “taken away” and the other “left.” Additionally Cyprian references the mansions which The Lord Jesus Christ promises to come back and take His believers to in John 14.

I really like you Hawkman, but we're going to have to part on the Dispensationalism issue. It's been of great interest to me for decades, and I just have to let my views be known, wrong or right.

I've heard a number of variations in the time between the Rapture and the 2nd Coming in history. But in reality, they didn't really establish a School of Theology until Darby's Dispensationalism. They were anachronistic, and as such, hold very little weight as an historical eschatology.

Sometimes, the terms used may have meant something entirely different to these authors in history, as opposed to how we may understand those terms today. Before establishing what these leaders meant, we have to define their terms.

Sometimes the verbiage gets a little confused. Irenaeus may have identified the "Intense Tribulation" as the 2nd Coming itself, along with God's Wrath against the Antichrist? He may not have been speaking of the 3.5 years of Antichrist's persecution at all? If so, he may not have been speaking of an escape, by the Church, of the *Tribulation Period,* but only escape from God's Wrath to be revealed *at Christ's 2nd Coming.*

I wrote the following to my brother today, as we were discussing this very subject. It runs quick, so you'll probably have to concentrate.

But it gives you my take on the WHY of this uniqute rise of this new eschatological school in history. My brother had asked me about a certain prophetess that he had heard may have influenced the beginning of Dispensationalism. Here is my answer...

In the "Incredible Coverup" author Dave MacPherson points out that Margaret McDonald had a vision that appeared to support Irving and Darby in their prophetic views. I don't really know how sound that argument is?

I'm not sure the vision of a 16 year old would carry that much weight with brilliant men like Irving and Darby? It just all seemed to happen in the same area around Scotland and England and at the same time.

Irving picked up on the Futurism of Lacunza, and Darby picked up on the Futurism of Ribera. Irving was completely ignorant of the fact he was reading from a Catholic author! Catholics Ribera and Lacunza were trying to argue that the Pope was not the Antichrist, as Protestants asserted, but was really a *future* Antichrist!

So all of the excitement was on the side of seeing a *future* fulfillment of biblical prophecy. But the fear of God's Wrath, coupled with the need to distinguish the Church from Israel's "refinement" caused Darby to separate Israel and the Church into separate Dispensations, gracing the Church with escape from "God's Wrath."

And Imminency Doctrine is what historically allowed interpreters wiggle room in adjusting a slight difference in the timing between the Rapture of the Church and the pouring out of God's Wrath at Christ's Coming. So Darby evidently picked up on a few unusual views that separated the Rapture from Christ's 2nd Coming by a few years at most.

What shocks me is that in order to be consistent with Imminency Doctrine, one must not just adjust the Rapture and the 2nd Coming in a slight difference of time, but it must also be argued that Christ can come at any time, no matter how many centuries it may be before the 2nd Coming, including today!

The greater weight had to do with the varying views in history that tried to reconcile the imminency of Christ's Coming with Futurism, a fairly distant fulfillment of ancient prophecy. That's why I focus on Imminency Doctrine as the culprint. It allowed for slight variations in history in the general time that Christ comes back, primarily asserting that the Church may be delivered just before Armageddon.

 

[RandyK]

So in your mind are the millions of Christians that were murdered & persecuted for the last 2000 years up to today are not " honored and praised " ?
You seem to suggest being murdered for Christ over the last 2000 years is just a mediocre sort of martyrdom compared to the much higher & more honorable privilege of being martyred during the revelation ?
Do I have that right , you really believe there are higher and lower classes of martyrs ?

No, of course not. Anybody martyred for Christ is worthy of praise.

 

[RandyK]

Here are the characteristics of the two phases of Christ's return. As you can see, these returns have nothing in common. No matter how you slice it, there are "TWO Returns":

At the Rapture:
1. Christ comes FOR His own in the air

2nd Coming

2. All believers are translated into new bodies

2nd Coming

3. Christians are taken to the Father's House

2nd Coming. You are using the term "Father's House" without defining what it actually is.

If it simply means we will dwell with God forever, God housing us wherever we are, in heaven or on earth, then there is no problem. I define "God's house" as the place where His presence dwells with His immortal Church. And that can be in heaven at the Rapture, or on earth, a second later.

4. There is no judgment on the earth

Yes there is judgment on earth at the 2nd Coming, which is when the Rapture takes place.

5. The Church will be in Heaven

The Church is caught up to meet the Lord in his *descent from heaven.* The Church does not *remain in heaven,* but follows Christ to earth to help establish his Kingdom there.

6. It is an imminent occurrence

Christ could not have come a day after his Ascension--the Gospel had to be preached to all nations. And the revelation of Antichrist has to take place before Christ comes back for his Church. In fact, Christ will only come once, appearing from heaven, to destroy the Antichrist. That's exactly what 2 Thes 2 and other passages teach.

7. There are no signs preceding it

The signs preceding Christ's coming are many, not the least of which is world evangelism.

8. It affects believers only

The 2nd Coming with the Church affects the whole world.

9. It is a time of joy

Not for the world that is judged.

10. it occurs before the day of Wrath

No, Christ's coming is to rescue the Church from the persecutions of the Antichrist at the end of his reign and to bring God's Wrath against the Antichrist.

11. No mention of Satan

Of course Satan energizes and indwells Antichrist.

12. The Judgment Seat of Christ happens next

Judgment takes place whenver the wicked die, and the sentence takes place at some point after Christ's Kingdom is set up.

13. There is the marriage of the Lamb

Yes, marriage of Christ and the Church is consummated at the 2nd Coming, when the Church is immortalized.

14. Only Christ's own will see him

The Scriptures say all nations will see Christ at his Coming.

15. The Tribulation begins

The Tribulation started in 70 AD, and the Reign of Antichrist will last for 3.5 years. Christ will come to end that reign and to deliver his Church.

I need not respond to your other column because you unnecessarily divide the Rapture of the Church from the 2nd Coming. They take place at the same time.

At the Second Coming:
1. Christ comes WITH his own
2. No Translation of bodies
3. resurrected saints remain on earth
4. vChrist judges the inhabitants of the earth
5. Christ sets up his kingdom on earth
6. It can not occur until the seven-year Trib period
7. The are numerous signs preceding it
8. It affects all humanity
9. It is a time of mourning
10. It occurs after the Tribulation
11. Satan is bound in abyss 1,000 years
12. No judgment seat of Christ
13. His bride descends with him to earth
14. Every eye will see him
15. The millennial reign of Christ begins

You say that no Postribber has ever responded to these 2 columns? I just now saw them! ;)

Of course I will respond to them. And I've never been afraid to respond to every Pretrib argument.

 

[MisterE]

2nd Coming

2nd Coming

2nd Coming. You are using the term "Father's House" without defining what it actually is.

If it simply means we will dwell with God forever, God housing us wherever we are, in heaven or on earth, then there is no problem. I define "God's house" as the place where His presence dwells with His immortal Church. And that can be in heaven at the Rapture, or on earth, a second later.

Yes there is judgment on earth at the 2nd Coming, which is when the Rapture takes place.

The Church is caught up to meet the Lord in his *descent from heaven.* The Church does not *remain in heaven,* but follows Christ to earth to help establish his Kingdom there.

Christ could not have come a day after his Ascension--the Gospel had to be preached to all nations. And the revelation of Antichrist has to take place before Christ comes back for his Church. In fact, Christ will only come once, appearing from heaven, to destroy the Antichrist. That's exactly what 2 Thes 2 and other passages teach.

The signs preceding Christ's coming are many, not the least of which is world evangelism.

The 2nd Coming with the Church affects the whole world.

Not for the world that is judged.

No, Christ's coming is to rescue the Church from the persecutions of the Antichrist at the end of his reign and to bring God's Wrath against the Antichrist.

Of course Satan energizes and indwells Antichrist.

Judgment takes place whenver the wicked die, and the sentence takes place at some point after Christ's Kingdom is set up.

Yes, marriage of Christ and the Church is consummated at the 2nd Coming, when the Church is immortalized.

The Scriptures say all nations will see Christ at his Coming.

The Tribulation started in 70 AD, and the Reign of Antichrist will last for 3.5 years. Christ will come to end that reign and to deliver his Church.

I need not respond to your other column because you unnecessarily divide the Rapture of the Church from the 2nd Coming. They take place at the same time.

You say that no Postribber has ever responded to these 2 columns? I just now saw them! ;)

Of course I will respond to them. And I've never been afraid to respond to every Pretrib argument.

If these are your answers to the first column, I can easily defeat any Post trib argument. Try me

 

[Consecrated Life]

So in your mind are the millions of Christians that were murdered & persecuted for the last 2000 years up to today are not " honored and praised " ?
You seem to suggest being murdered for Christ over the last 2000 years is just a mediocre sort of martyrdom compared to the much higher & more honorable privilege of being martyred during the revelation ?
Do I have that right , you really believe there are higher and lower classes of martyrs ?

No, of course not. Anybody martyred for Christ is worthy of praise.

So my question stands , what would be the purpose of God having Christians just hanging around people who He has declared are no longer eligible to be saved and are under judgement ?
Hanging around having zero effect on enriching the world by furthering the Word of God ?
The Great Commission being made null & void for this tribulation period.
No purpose to fulfil other than waiting around to be killed , is that it ?
Do you really believe that the Word & Command which Jesus says will be in effect and alive even after heaven and earth have passed away will canceled at this time ?
Did Jesus just not know the censoring the Father planned to place on His Word during the tribulation ?

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 

[RandyK]

If these are your answers to the first column, I can easily defeat any Post trib argument. Try me

This isn't a "contest" to me. I'm interested only in the Scriptures, as I'm sure you are? If so, let's not put this in the context of a joust. We are on the same side--just have different takes on the same information.

The strength of the Postrib argument does not rest on answering *your points!* As I see it, the greatest argument pro-Postrib is the historical argument, the fact Christians never interpreted the biblical passages to represent a Pretribulational Eschatology. Darby's Dispensationalism came very late in history.

Nobody, for example, in the early Church took pains to say that Christ can return at any moment, or "Christ must certainly return for his Church *before* the Antichrist arises.*

The other strong argument pro-Postrib is the explicit theology argument, the fact Paul specifically and explicitly said that Christ comes for his Church *at the destruction of Antichrist.* You interpret 2 Thes 2 differently, and I understand that.

 

[MisterE]

This isn't a "contest" to me. I'm interested only in the Scriptures, as I'm sure you are, as well? If so, let's not put this in the context of a joust. We are on the same side--just have different takes on the same information.

Just to clarify, we don't disagree on the interpretation of a passage, but we have a different method of Interpretation.

 

[RandyK]

Just to clarify, we don't disagree on the interpretation of a passage, but we have a different method of Interpretation.

Yes. Go back and read my post again, because I added to it. I explain the 2 strong arguments I use to argue for Postrib. I do not have any contempt for those who disagree with me, who are Pretribulationists. I do understand your arguments, and there are elements of truth in them that I would agree with.

For example, I agree that even though I believe some prophecies must be fulfilled before Christ comes back, I believe that for the world it will be an unexpected event.

And I believe that the Church will not suffer "God's Wrath," though I define God's Wrath differently than you do.

And as I said, I believe God is still fulfilling prophecies and promises given on behalf of Israel. I just think that Israel is only the last nation to receive God's grace through Jesus in history.

Take care... Again, we're on the same side.

 

[RandyK]

So my question stands , what would be the purpose of God having Christians just hanging around people who He has declared are no longer eligible to be saved and are under judgement ?
Hanging around having zero effect on enriching the world by furthering the Word of God ?
The Great Commission being made null & void for this tribulation period.
No purpose to fulfil other than waiting around to be killed , is that it ?
Do you really believe that the Word & Command which Jesus says will be in effect and alive even after heaven and earth have passed away will canceled at this time ?
Did Jesus just not know the censoring the Father planned to place on His Word during the tribulation ?

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

You're not making much sense to me. Who said that people have no further opportunity to receive Christ during the Reign of Antichrist? Some are always hardening their hearts. But the entire world?--I don't think so. The Gospel is going out via an angel in mid-heaven throughout this period of time. And Christians never stop witnessing.

The period of evangelism ends with the end of the age--not before.

Matt 13.39 The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

Matt 24.14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Matt 28.18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

[MisterE]

Yes there is judgment on earth at the 2nd Coming, which is when the Rapture takes place.

If the Rapture takes place at the same time as the 2nd Coming, there will only be glorified people to enter the Millennium. There is nobody who can populate the Millennium since they are ALL in glorified bodies.

 

[RandyK]

If the Rapture takes place at the same time as the 2nd Coming, there will only be glorified people to enter the Millennium. There is nobody who can populate the Millennium since they are ALL in glorified bodies.

We have radically different views of this. It is, however, highly speculative, since we aren't given much on the Millennial Age, perhaps because our focus is really on this age.

I believe, personally, that the people of the present age will enter into the Millennial Age after Christ comes. Sure, millions will die in the Battle of Armageddon--Revelation indicates they will be very high percentages. But that means high percentages will still remain alive to continue earth's mortal history for another thousand years.

 

[Dyonisius the Areopagite]

Early Church , first and second century . The Pretribulation Rapture Has Been Taught Throughout Christian History

Irenaeus
Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) was a bishop of the church in Lyons, France. He was an eyewitness to the Apostle John (who wrote the Book of Revelation) and a disciple of Polycarp, the first of the Apostle John’s disciples. Irenaeus is most-known for his five-volume treatise, Against Heresies in which he exposed the false religions and cults of his day along with advice for how to share the Gospel with those were a part of them.

In his writings on Bible prophecy, he acknowledged the phrase “a time, times and dividing of times” in Daniel 7 to signify the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist as ruler of the world before the Second Coming of Christ. He also believed in a literal Millennial reign of Christ on earth following the Second Coming and the resurrection of the just.

On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies 5.29, he wrote:


Irenaeus in this passage describes the church leaving the sinful world just before unprecedented disasters. Note his use of the term “caught up” which is Rapture terminology as that is the meaning of harpazo, the term for “caught up” in the King James Bible describing the Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4. He then quotes Matthew 24:21 where The Lord Jesus Christ says: “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” And it is during this time that those who convert to Christianity during the final years will receive the incorruptible crown mentioned by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:25. In Irenaeus’ belief, the Rapture took place prior to the end times Great Tribulation.

Cyprian
Cyprian (200 AD – 258 AD) – Cyprian was Bishop of the church in Carthage. During his short stint as leader of the church, he guided the flock through intense persecution at the hands of the Roman Empire. In 258 AD after spending seven months of confinement to his home by order of Roman authorities, he was beheaded for his faith. Several of his works still exist today.

In Treatises of Cyprian he wrote in describing the end times Great Tribulation:


Again we see use of language commonly found in reference to the Rapture as Cyprian describes the judgments of the end times as “imminent.” And he makes his belief on the timing of the Rapture when he wrote that Christians will have an “early departure” and be “delivered” from the devastating global judgments that come during the Day of The Lord.

In line with the Apostle Paul who wrote that “God has not appointed us to wrath, but salvation...” Cyprian expressed joy and encourages the believing reader to rejoice that the Church will be “taken away” before the disastrous Great Tribulation. Just as The Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 24 used the same language of one “taken away” and the other “left.” Additionally Cyprian references the mansions which The Lord Jesus Christ promises to come back and take His believers to in John 14.

Greetings,
I very much appreciate you delving into the Holy Fathers. St. Irenaeus was amazing. St. Cyprian was a great martyr for the Lord.
I do not have the time today to quote and comment on my following link and an answer for Cyprian will have to wait. My weekend starts tomorrow. I am enjoying this discussion immensely.
My few brief comments are these. The key to this debate is understanding that there are two Resurrections of the Dead. One for Church, and then the General Resuurection of the Dead.
i have not had the time to look up his quote in comtext, but i think Cyprian there was talking about Martyrdom.

What Did the Early Church Believe About Eschatology? (Part 2) | 4 Truth Ministry

Christians today have various views on eschatology. The early church held ONE main view. What did they think about the rapture, Second Coming, & millennium?

www.4truthministry.org

 

[Consecrated Life]

You're not making much sense to me. Who said that people have no further opportunity to receive Christ during the Reign of Antichrist? Some are always hardening their hearts. But the entire world?--I don't think so. The Gospel is going out via an angel in mid-heaven throughout this period of time. And Christians never stop witnessing.

The period of evangelism ends with the end of the age--not before.

You seem to be unaware that the " Reign of Antichrist" will be a most welcomed period of butterflies. rainbows and peace for the "WHOLE WORLD" at first anyway , according to God's Word:

Rev 13:3
........... and all the world wondered after the beast.
So If The whole world is celebrating and rejoicing at the coming of the beast WHERE ARE THE CHRISTIANS ?

The people on earth today who have heard the Gospel but not accepted Christ are still able to hear again the Word and be saved .
You seem to be unaware that God has declared that the opportunity for people on to reconsider will one day end.
God's Word declares that this opportunity for those who at first resist the beckoning of the Lord ,to still come to Him another day , WILL BE NO MORE.

2Th 2:6-12
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time....
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Dyonisius the Areopagite]

Don't worry, i wasn't expecting a legitimate answer. No Post Tribber has ever responded to those two columns.

I gave a legitimate answer.
But, if youn want a detailed response to your columns, provide Scriptural citation for each line of each colum.

 

[KV-44-v1]

This topic exemplifies why Sola Scriptura is a false doctrine

What would you have us believe then?
Do you believe Catholicism is true? Or what?