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I misled us on the issue of divorce - wrong interpretation

kiwidan said:
What is the Pope up to these days?.
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The Pope has made Traditional Catholics so upset that they don't even care to talk about him
anymore.

First he allowed remarrieds to receive communion. Long story, we could get into it if you want to....

Then he says he can't judge homosexuals (or was that before? same difference)

Then he says the death penalty is no longer considered to be morally acceptable.
OOOOH. A good decision on his part, but this makes the SECOND doctrine he's changed and he takes an oath not to change any doctrine already in place.

I don't know what happened in the past few days,,,but I'm pretty sure something did!
 
Susannah said:
I was the one who brought up the subject of abuse because I used to counsel women who told me they couldn't get divorced because they were Christian. But aside from that issue I believe God wants me to be equally yoked with another Christian. Sometimes if you become a Christian later in life then you're with the wrong partner and you have to risk sinning by divorce in order to be with the right person. My deceased husband was a Christian and it made us both happy to share our faith. I never had that with my ex who I married when I was very young. So the bottom line for me is that I believe in divorce for the right reasons
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Getting a divorce due to abuse is not a sin.

The marriage would have to be annulled and it could be in this case.
 
JohnDB said:
Oh,
It's very difficult these days for two people (man and woman) to learn to live together in wedded bliss.
Especially when they have very strong personalities and independent identities.

Everyone thinks that their rights are being violated by their spouses in some abusive fashion... especially during that first to second year of marriage.

And it really isn't true very often. Guys know better than to abuse women. Women know better than to manipulate the emotions of their husbands. Very few ever engage in this...it still happens. But people know better.

In those first few years of marriage there is usually a battle for supremacy. Either the husband or the wife will win the"control".

But not always.

As in any partnership the different partners each bring to the table different skills and abilities. None are more valuable...both are equal. Hard for couples to figure this out sometimes... even harder when they aren't Christian.
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Women could manipulate the emotions of their husbands?

Now you tell me?

Agreed on all.
 
JohnDB said:
Let's do...
Because if you will pay attention to the thread in the school section "Game Of Thrones" we can know a bit more about this section of history explained.
And others can see why The Catholics
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Good idea.
There's a nice number reading along.

I believe this will be based on:

Matthew 5:31-32
31“It was said, ‘WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE’;
32but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Matthew 19:9
9“And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Mark 10:11-12
11And He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her;
12and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.”


Jesus words seem clear to me.
Mark leaves out information...so exegetically, we'd have to accept Matthew which has more information.

What could be added to this?
 
wondering said:
Good idea.
There's a nice number reading along.

I believe this will be based on:

Matthew 5:31-32
31“It was said, ‘WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE’;
32but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Matthew 19:9
9“And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Mark 10:11-12
11And He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her;
12and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.”


Jesus words seem clear to me.
Mark leaves out information...so exegetically, we'd have to accept Matthew which has more information.

What could be added to this?
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Divorce and remarriage means nothing.

What do you think of that?

Jesus was teaching the Jews, who were his people and they had the Law.
Jesus was showing them that they couldn't keep the Law and that they needed to repent for the Kingdom of God was near.

Don't take things out of context, that's what you are doing.

The Apostle Paul continued with the teaching of Jesus, but now he's speaking to a group of believers, born again believers, filled with the Holy Spirit believers.
Believers who were circumcized in their hearts.
This is when divorce and remarriage meant something.
This is when it should mean something to us today.
 
wondering said:
Good idea.
There's a nice number reading along.

I believe this will be based on:

Matthew 5:31-32
31“It was said, ‘WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE’;
32but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Matthew 19:9
9“And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Mark 10:11-12
11And He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her;
12and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.”


Jesus words seem clear to me.
Mark leaves out information...so exegetically, we'd have to accept Matthew which has more information.

What could be added to this?
Click to expand...
That it has NOT been translated correctly. It was done originally intentionally by Wycliffe and the subsequent translators until it became tradition. King Henry VIII's "radical" desires had a lot to do with this. Mostly it was that he upset everyone in Christiandom and especially the Catholics. He was the one who had Wycliffe killed. Wycliffe got his revenge first though by the way he translated the scriptures.
 
I'm surprised that you haven't heard anything about what I've been pointing to... especially with your years on the internet forums.
It's been discussed on every forum I've been on for the past 15 years
 
JohnDB said:
That it has NOT been translated correctly. It was done originally intentionally by Wycliffe and the subsequent translators until it became tradition. King Henry VIII's "radical" desires had a lot to do with this. Mostly it was that he upset everyone in Christiandom and especially the Catholics. He was the one who had Wycliffe killed. Wycliffe got his revenge first though by the way he translated the scriptures.
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he killed jean Wycliffe? man I loved that guy. lol
 
Martin Luther King Jr. was a great preacher add a middle-class Protestant. Rodney King on the other hand was poor and probably a criminal. But he said the most beautiful thing I ever heard. He asked the question can we all get along?. I don't know why people argue about these things. I don't think that's what Jesus wants us to do with our time.
 
We are just discussing this...
Because some have followed blindly... never once questioning why what appears to have been said doesn't make sense.

This is hermeneutics. Art, science, and a little common sense.

And Susannah ,
MLK had some great quotes as well. One especially about "Content of his character".

Which is why people began to question this passage. It didn't make sense.
Jesus is God the son. God doesn't change. Why would he reverse himself in such a fashion? (He wouldn't) Why would He make life impossible? (He wouldn't) Where is the Godly compassion in this statement?

Today, plenty of good men have had their wives divorce them for child support checks. (Silly and selfish reasons) Men have divorced their wives for equally silly and selfish reasons.
Then this section of scripture has been used when there were King's and Queens ruling at the pleasure of the Church that ruled the world...The Roman Empire and the Catholic Church were one in the same. The Emporor wasn't the Pope but the two worked "hand in glove". Marriages, annulments and divorces on a Royal level were handled by the Pope.

When the Emporor's niece is a King's spouse and the King wants a divorce because he can't get an annulment (too many years) the Pope got suddenly too busy to hear from a King.

The King believed that he needed an heir and that it was her fault that she couldn't get pregnant. So the king tried to fix it by getting another wife. But first he had to do something with the first one. Polygamy wasn't allowed in the Roman Empire.
Politics was religion and religion was politics.

This is the setting for the first English translation of the Bible. King Henry was young, brash, and too self confident to not make the choice he made.

This one section, mishandled, has sent so many people in modern times away from the church it's unbelievable.
It's mishandling has kept good, compassionate men from being spiritual leaders.
And if by some miracle I can get people to see that the old standard of how this is translated is illogical and wrong...I've done a good thing.
 
Allen Wynne said:
Divorce and remarriage means nothing.

What do you think of that?

Jesus was teaching the Jews, who were his people and they had the Law.
Jesus was showing them that they couldn't keep the Law and that they needed to repent for the Kingdom of God was near.

Don't take things out of context, that's what you are doing.

The Apostle Paul continued with the teaching of Jesus, but now he's speaking to a group of believers, born again believers, filled with the Holy Spirit believers.
Believers who were circumcized in their hearts.
This is when divorce and remarriage meant something.
This is when it should mean something to us today.
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Could you post Paul's verses?
Thanks.
 
LovethroughDove said:
Divorce should be the biggest platform talked about in the church, but other individual issues get the attention. If a person cannot see what divorce does to families, they are being blind on purpose.
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Divorce is horrible. Something I wouldn't want to wish on my worst enemy. And just like most sin it ravages devastation on all those whom you love the most.

But it isn't the end of the world. Life goes on and it's a life worth living. It might not feel that way in the beginning. But there's a good life waiting for those who figure out their mistakes and don't do them again.

I have yet to hear of someone advocating that divorce is a good thing or a minimal thing. Ever.

And if two people find love after a divorce...it can be a truly healing and beautiful thing.
Far be it for me to ever proclaim something good as evil. I'm just not going to do so. And I've seen it too many times to go with the "one-shot-marriage" theology.
 
JohnDB said:
Divorce is horrible. Something I wouldn't want to wish on my worst enemy. And just like most sin it ravages devastation on all those whom you love the most.

But it isn't the end of the world. Life goes on and it's a life worth living. It might not feel that way in the beginning. But there's a good life waiting for those who figure out their mistakes and don't do them again.

I have yet to hear of someone advocating that divorce is a good thing or a minimal thing. Ever.

And if two people find love after a divorce...it can be a truly healing and beautiful thing.
Far be it for me to ever proclaim something good as evil. I'm just not going to do so. And I've seen it too many times to go with the "one-shot-marriage" theology.
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Hi John. I love you and I'm just going to have to wholly disagree. You sound like my parents, so I'm coming from a child perspective.
 
JohnDB said:
Divorce is horrible. Something I wouldn't want to wish on my worst enemy. And just like most sin it ravages devastation on all those whom you love the most.

But it isn't the end of the world. Life goes on and it's a life worth living. It might not feel that way in the beginning. But there's a good life waiting for those who figure out their mistakes and don't do them again.

I have yet to hear of someone advocating that divorce is a good thing or a minimal thing. Ever.

And if two people find love after a divorce...it can be a truly healing and beautiful thing.
Far be it for me to ever proclaim something good as evil. I'm just not going to do so. And I've seen it too many times to go with the "one-shot-marriage" theology.
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My,brother probably would agree and say something similar as he married ,his second wife is much better for him.he never wavered in being,a dad ,his oldest he adopted her,he is a grandad as his older two had chikdren out of wedlock ,he has three boys from his current wife .he sacrificed his house to keep being,able to see and be a part of his kids .

He said either have a house I mortgage and no,time for my daughters or vice versa .he decided to be a dad as none one will remember the house without a memory made in it .
Much of my photos of those are based on known stories or perceived ones
 
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