I misled us on the issue of divorce - wrong interpretation

[Susannah]

From my experience, the solution to the issue of divorce lies in the root of the problem which is that people marry for the first time for the wrong reasons. They fall in love and then want to be married. Romantic love is not good enough. It has to be accompanied by compatibility. It is easy to fall in love with the wrong person. It takes longer to find someone who is right for you. It requires patience and a self-awareness that young people today often do not have.

If young people can understand that they must seek out a suitable companion rather than just fall in love and marry, they will not have to get divorced.

I discuss this in another thread about attraction and my article "Dating with Purpose."

The article is from years ago. If I were to update it for Christians I would add that one should look for someone who shares your faith and your ideas about how to worship and serve God. When you are on the same page about worship, raising children in the church, fidelity, etc. you are off to a good start.

On a personal note, I had to leave my first husband because he beat me, but I stood by my second husband as he battled with drug addiction because except for that problem he was a really good person.

https://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/attraction.81877/#post-1558635

 

[GodsGrace]

That it has NOT been translated correctly. It was done originally intentionally by Wycliffe and the subsequent translators until it became tradition. King Henry VIII's "radical" desires had a lot to do with this. Mostly it was that he upset everyone in Christiandom and especially the Catholics. He was the one who had Wycliffe killed. Wycliffe got his revenge first though by the way he translated the scriptures.

Are you saying that the bible was translated based upon what King Henry wanted?

Wasn't it translated before that?

Wycliffe did all the translating?
And what about the bibles that came before that?

This is from the Codex Sinaiticus, about 400 AD or even before....I could find out.

Matthew 5:31-32
31 And it has been said: Whoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a bill of divorce.

32 But I say to you, that whoever shalt put away his wife, unless on account of lewdness, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever shall marry her that is put away commits adultery.


I think I don't really understand what your post is stating.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm surprised that you haven't heard anything about what I've been pointing to... especially with your years on the internet forums.
It's been discussed on every forum I've been on for the past 15 years

I don't really learn theology form forums.
I depend on two different churches.
However, I have learned a lot on here too.

 

[GodsGrace]

Which ones are you referring to?
Pastoral letters, Romans, Church letters?

Allen Wynne said that Paul was preaching to born again believers...
as if Paul was saying something different from Jesus.

I don't think Paul ever said anything differently.
See post 394.

I can't know what verses Allen had in mind.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, I can't.
Can you?

Allen, I can't know what you have in mind.
If you don't want to post what Paul was saying,,,
then fine...you don't have to.

 

[GodsGrace]

From my experience, the solution to the issue of divorce lies in the root of the problem which is that people marry for the first time for the wrong reasons. They fall in love and then want to be married. Romantic love is not good enough. It has to be accompanied by compatibility. It is easy to fall in love with the wrong person. It takes longer to find someone who is right for you. It requires patience and a self-awareness that young people today often do not have.

If young people can understand that they must seek out a suitable companion rather than just fall in love and marry, they will not have to get divorced.

I discuss this in another thread about attraction and my article "Dating with Purpose."

The article is from years ago. If I were to update it for Christians I would add that one should look for someone who shares your faith and your ideas about how to worship and serve God. When you are on the same page about worship, raising children in the church, fidelity, etc. you are off to a good start.

On a personal note, I had to leave my first husband because he beat me, but I stood by my second husband as he battled with drug addiction because except for that problem he was a really good person.

https://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/attraction.81877/#post-1558635

The above sounds rather sad.

So we shouldn't get married for love?
How many men do you think a woman could love in a lifetime?
Is love something we could fabricate because we've met someone we're compatible with?

I ask you....
If two people that love each other can't get along....
then how could two persons that are compatible get along?
Doesn't loving someone mean you are also compatible?

So many questions.
so little time.

 

[GodsGrace]

Divorce should be the biggest platform talked about in the church, but other individual issues get the attention. If a person cannot see what divorce does to families, they are being blind on purpose.

True.
Especially sine the divorce rate is as high in the church as out of the church.

Christians should be setting an example and not acting like the rest of the world acts.
We're members of the Kingdom of God on earth and are not supposed to be acting like the world.

We are in the world,
but not a part of it.
Romans 12:1-2 and so many other verses about not being part of this world.

 

[JohnDB]

Hi John. I love you and I'm just going to have to wholly disagree. You sound like my parents, so I'm coming from a child perspective.

There's a reason why I sound like your parents...I've been alive and around for a while...known lots of people. Seen things from beginning to end.

I've seen bad marriages finally work out after 50+ years...seen good marriages end for the dumbest things. I've seen plenty of good people become absolutely ruined by a bad spouse. And I've seen a very very selective few ever straighten up because of a good spouse. So few it's on par with Unicorn sightings...almost mythical in reality. (Although the belief is otherwise)

Experience is a harsh teacher and a fool will learn by no other.

But we, as parents, don't really teach our children how to pick a spouse. What to look for, what works for them the best, how to get along, and what's wrong with choosing unbelievers.

 

[GodsGrace]

There's a reason why I sound like your parents...I've been alive and around for a while...known lots of people. Seen things from beginning to end.

I've seen bad marriages finally work out after 50+ years...seen good marriages end for the dumbest things. I've seen plenty of good people become absolutely ruined by a bad spouse. And I've seen a very very selective few ever straighten up because of a good spouse. So few it's on par with Unicorn sightings...almost mythical in reality. (Although the belief is otherwise)

Experience is a harsh teacher and a fool will learn by no other.

But we, as parents, don't really teach our children how to pick a spouse. What to look for, what works for them the best, how to get along, and what's wrong with choosing unbelievers.

Not all unbelievers make bad husbands.
I get kind of tired to hear this.

My husband is not a believer...not really.
We've been married a really long, long, time.
I don't think I could have had a better husband.

I'm very sorry he's not born again....
but that does not mean he's not a good husband.

And I've seen Christian couples that cannot get along,,,
one of them is in my family.
And some do not have a good marriage but stay together anyway....
which, actually, is how it should be.
Except in the case of abuse.

 

[Susannah]

The above sounds rather sad. So we shouldn't get married for love?

I should have been more explicit. Of course we marry for love, not just romantic love or passion. People today like to fall in love based on sexual passion instead of compatibility followed by romantic love and passion. Then when the romance fades into platonic love beyond passion there is still happiness.

Platonic love is defined as a "deep abiding affection for another person." If you have this then there is no need for divorce. I help people find compatible partners and then fall in love. Maybe you can find love and then compatibility, but usually passion blinds you to things you should take a note of. In my second marriage I liked Frank and we really got along. One day we were laughing and I looked over at him and fell in love with him. The passion followed. The joy of sharing Christ, getting along, laughing, and not arguing just overwhelmed me.

The bottom line is to have compatibility first, shared values second, and then passion. Romantic love is over rated, but maybe I am just getting old. LOL Look for balance and a shared vision. Look for Christ in the eyes of your potential partner and you will be fine

 

[JohnDB]

Are you saying that the bible was translated based upon what King Henry wanted?

Wasn't it translated before that?

Wycliffe did all the translating?
And what about the bibles that came before that?

This is from the Codex Sinaiticus, about 400 AD or even before....I could find out.

Matthew 5:31-32
31 And it has been said: Whoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a bill of divorce.

32 But I say to you, that whoever shalt put away his wife, unless on account of lewdness, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever shall marry her that is put away commits adultery.


I think I don't really understand what your post is stating.

Just the opposite of what King Henry VIII wanted. Wycliffe was on the run from both the Catholics and King Henry. The Calvinists weren't exactly his friends either. (Despite what they might do today)

The translation and confusion about it all is deeply rooted in the politics of the Reformation.
In order to really see all the nuances of what Jesus was talking about going back to Aramaic/Hebrew is needed. (Because that's what language he spoke to the Apostles and Israelites in. I know that it was recorded in Greek for us today...but they used the Septuagint for a translation guide.

Meaning we must know what the prophets and Moses said in order for this to be clear. God doesn't change...ever. He instilled a new Covenant. But that doesn't change the focus of what He wants from us when speaking about husband/wife relationships.

 

[LovethroughDove]

True.
Especially sine the divorce rate is as high in the church as out of the church.

Christians should be setting an example and not acting like the rest of the world acts.
We're members of the Kingdom of God on earth and are not supposed to be acting like the world.

We are in the world,
but not a part of it.
Romans 12:1-2 and so many other verses about not being part of this world.

I agree. If marriage wasn't a big deal to God, he wouldn't have the church as the bride of Christ. Becoming one flesh and to be eternally connected. As humans, we just have to stick it out until death. Marriage will push you in ways you didn't imagine.

 

[Susannah]

Not all unbelievers make bad husbands.

I agree that non-Christians can make good husbands and if you are happy then I am happy for you. I do not think your partner's faith makes a difference in terms of right or wrong. I do think that sharing your faith is a great addition to a marriage. It is like having a wonderful meal and then adding dessert. The meal will sustain you, but the dessert makes it extra special.

Christians need to be around other Christians to support their faith because Satan is always trying to isolate us so he has more power over you. If I go to church and my husband stays home then we are missing out of a great joy of sharing Christ.

Not everyone is meant for a Christian marriage. But they don't know what they are missing. I pray that I am not offending anyone. I am just expressing my opinion that there no right or wrong. There is just special and extra special.

 

[LovethroughDove]

There's a reason why I sound like your parents...I've been alive and around for a while...known lots of people. Seen things from beginning to end.

I've seen bad marriages finally work out after 50+ years...seen good marriages end for the dumbest things. I've seen plenty of good people become absolutely ruined by a bad spouse. And I've seen a very very selective few ever straighten up because of a good spouse. So few it's on par with Unicorn sightings...almost mythical in reality. (Although the belief is otherwise)

Experience is a harsh teacher and a fool will learn by no other.

But we, as parents, don't really teach our children how to pick a spouse. What to look for, what works for them the best, how to get along, and what's wrong with choosing unbelievers.

I'm strictly coming from the child's point of view. Being a child from divorced parents, I do not want to do that to my children because of the impression that a child feels. My parents did not think about my sister and me when they did what they did.

It was mainly my Mom making the move to divorce, but my Dad wasn't making us priority either. My family is blown up til this very day and my sister and me are in our 40s. It's a tragedy.

 

[GodsGrace]

I should have been more explicit. Of course we marry for love, not just romantic love or passion. People today like to fall in love based on sexual passion instead of compatibility followed by romantic love and passion. Then when the romance fades into platonic love beyond passion there is still happiness.

Platonic love is defined as a "deep abiding affection for another person." If you have this then there is no need for divorce. I help people find compatible partners and then fall in love. Maybe you can find love and then compatibility, but usually passion blinds you to things you should take a note of. In my second marriage I liked Frank and we really got along. One day we were laughing and I looked over at him and fell in love with him. The passion followed. The joy of sharing Christ, getting along, laughing, and not arguing just overwhelmed me.

The bottom line is to have compatibility first, shared values second, and then passion. Romantic love is over rated, but maybe I am just getting old. LOL Look for balance and a shared vision. Look for Christ in the eyes of your potential partner and you will be fine

I do believe I agree with the above.
But it sounds different from your other post.

Also, you should tag me when replying.
I come across most of your replies by scrolling..and I'm sure I've missed some.

 

[jasonc]

Not all unbelievers make bad husbands.
I get kind of tired to hear this.

My husband is not a believer...not really.
We've been married a really long, long, time.
I don't think I could have had a better husband.

I'm very sorry he's not born again....
but that does not mean he's not a good husband.

And I've seen Christian couples that cannot get along,,,
one of them is in my family.
And some do not have a good marriage but stay together anyway....
which, actually, is how it should be.
Except in the case of abuse.

From,experience .

My,mom and dad ,its a dead marriage no love ,i knew this and my,brother .

Just nearly,as bad a divorce .my,mom,has told me she stopped loving my,dad a long,time ago.long,time,ago say 30 years ago .so the damage is less because they didn't legally file ,my,dad cheated on my,mom once ,I wouldn't blame her if she did leave him,over that .

My,uncle hates my,dad over that and will not talk to him.my,uncle isn't saved .actually need to add him to,the church prayer list.

This said ,I can surely say,the poor example of my parents set me on a bad course .its something I must change .I,really,can't say that divorced parents would have been worse .a dead marriage isn't a marriage .

Its a strange one they have ,friends with grandkids who live together and assist with finances .

 

[GodsGrace]

Just the opposite of what King Henry VIII wanted. Wycliffe was on the run from both the Catholics and King Henry. The Calvinists weren't exactly his friends either. (Despite what they might do today)

The translation and confusion about it all is deeply rooted in the politics of the Reformation.
In order to really see all the nuances of what Jesus was talking about going back to Aramaic/Hebrew is needed. (Because that's what language he spoke to the Apostles and Israelites in. I know that it was recorded in Greek for us today...but they used the Septuagint for a translation guide.

Meaning we must know what the prophets and Moses said in order for this to be clear. God doesn't change...ever. He instilled a new Covenant. But that doesn't change the focus of what He wants from us when speaking about husband/wife relationships.

But you're not saying what Jesus meant.
It seem clear to me and to others.
We spoke about the culture of the time a little.
I don't see what difference it makes.

Jesus said that there is to be no divorce except for adultery.

Can we take away from that or add to it?

If Jesus said something,,,what difference does it make what Moses said or what the prophets said?

Could you expound please.

 

[GodsGrace]

From,experience .

My,mom and dad ,its a dead marriage no love ,i knew this and my,brother .

Just nearly,as bad a divorce .my,mom,has told me she stopped loving my,dad a long,time ago.long,time,ago say 30 years ago .so the damage is less because they didn't legally file ,my,dad cheated on my,mom once ,I wouldn't blame her if she did leave him,over that .

My,uncle hates my,dad over that and will not talk to him.my,uncle isn't saved .actually need to add him to,the church prayer list.

This said ,I can surely say,the poor example of my parents set me on a bad course .its something I must change .I,really,can't say that divorced parents would have been worse .a dead marriage isn't a marriage .

Its a strange one they have ,friends with grandkids who live together and assist with finances .

There are examples all around us.
I also know from experience that marriage with an unbeliever could be good,
and marriage with a believer could be bad.

But we do have stats to back us up.
There is as much divorce in church as out of church.
No difference.
We have to go by this.

 

[JohnDB]

In practice, being a Christian means a lot of different things to different people. Everyone does it a bit different. They don't make Christians in a cookie cutter fashion.
My faith is practiced very differently than my parents. I'm a different person than either one of them are. Very different than my brothers too.
I tried to marry a woman similar to my mother and it failed miserably because I am not my father. They, as parents, were ill equipped to teach me how to pick a spouse except to ensure that she claimed Christ.
And that's not enough. There's a lot of things that are needed to be understood.
Successful marriages look different to different people.
But the dry metrics are available and have some surprising characteristics. (Marriages lasting longer than 10 years)

 

[GodsGrace]

I agree. If marriage wasn't a big deal to God, he wouldn't have the church as the bride of Christ. Becoming one flesh and to be eternally connected. As humans, we just have to stick it out until death. Marriage will push you in ways you didn't imagine.

Great point about the church being the bride of Christ...that was church with a capital C.

God said THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE.
How do I disconnect with myself?

But, again, we do need to remove ourselves from some marriages.
Do we need a list?