If God truly wanted us to believe without evidence...

[Grazer]

..he wouldn't have given us the Bible!!

The Bible is a collection of letters from early Christians writing to early churches, eye witness accounts and accounts of those who spoke to eye witnesses and early Judaism beliefs. We have the Bible so that we have a base for our belief. Luke and John tell us so:

Luke 1:1-4

Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

John 20:30-31

Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

If your faith is based on the Bible or uses the Bible in anyway, it's based on evidence and underpinned by it!! I know that Hebrews 11 lists acts of faith but I would argue each of those has its own evidence underpinnings. Even if they don't, that still means we have the Bible as evidence to even know about them.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I don't disagree. Our faith isn't a blind one.

Sometimes I do get overwhelmed by the arguments presented against Christianity and the Bible, though, and I just get tired of trying to reason it all out. Sometimes I think that's where faith comes in, when we just don't know for ourselves, even despite the evidence we know exists.

 

[WIP]

I agree with the OP however, for non-believers, the Bible is not evidence.

 

[Grazer]

Questdriven, I've often felt like that. Sometimes I just want to forget about the rationale and the arguments and just go with what my heart knows to be true and God helps me with that. But I'm reminded of Matthew 22:

Matthew 22:37 NIV

Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

Both approaches work as long one is not at the expense of the other

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[Knotical]

I agree with the OP however, for non-believers, the Bible is not evidence.

That really is the hardest obstacle to get over when witnessing to a non-believer.

 

[Grazer]

That really is the hardest obstacle to get over when witnessing to a non-believer.

I agree but this thread isn't about non believers

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[farouk]

I agree with the OP however, for non-believers, the Bible is not evidence.

The believer can't alter his or her ground, just because the unbeliever doesn't like the ground.

In the end, it's the Holy Spirit that needs to work in the hearts of unbelievers so that they trust the 'impregnable rock of Holy Scripture'.

 

[WIP]

I agree but this thread isn't about non believers

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But why would a believer need evidence? He/she already believes. Does a believer need evidence to maintain his/her belief?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I agree with the OP however, for non-believers, the Bible is not evidence.

The Bible is evidence to the non-believer. If they read it, a seed is planted. If someone waters it, it will grow. At this point a non-believer can only refuse the truth.

 

[Grazer]

But why would a believer need evidence? He/she already believes. Does a believer need evidence to maintain his/her belief?

The evidence doesn't suddenly become redundant once you believe. The evidence underpins my faith, its what my faith is based on. Without evidence, how do I know it was God who spoke to me and not Allah for example? Without evidence, how do you know Islam is false?

Maybe we have different definitions of faith and evidence but to me, faith that has no supporting evidence is blind and I want nothing to do with it.

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[Rollo Tamasi]

The evidence doesn't suddenly become redundant once you believe. The evidence underpins my faith, its what my faith is based on. Without evidence, how do I know it was God who spoke to me and not Allah for example? Without evidence, how do you know Islam is false?

Maybe we have different definitions of faith and evidence but to me, faith that has no supporting evidence is blind and I want nothing to do with it.

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Evidence is the key here. I think each of us may see it differently.
There is evidence in creation, evidence in the Bible, evidence in each of us.
If we show the world our oneness with God, our union with Christ, this is evidence.
John 17:21b: "May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me".
God does give us evidence so that we can all believe if we choose.

 

[farouk]

The Bible is evidence to the non-believer. If they read it, a seed is planted. If someone waters it, it will grow. At this point a non-believer can only refuse the truth.

allenw:

Well, exactly.

I don't accept the rightful distinction between Scripture exposition for the edification of believers, on the one hand, and, on the other, so called evangelistic preaching which barely refers to the Bible and instead so often consists of appeals to the will, using often flawed and unconvincing human logic.

To all hearers, believer and unbeliever alike, the Word is the authority.

 

[farouk]

Maybe we have different definitions of faith and evidence but to me, faith that has no supporting evidence is blind and I want nothing to do with it.

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For the Christian, it's Scripture that is the evidence.

 

[Grazer]

For the Christian, it's Scripture that is the evidence.

I dont dispute that but its still evidence

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[WIP]

Perhaps the scripture becomes the evidence only after one surrenders pride to the Lord. Before that, we are blind to the evidence.