if one doest accept the trinity then what was jesus?

[jasoncran]

Re: if one doest accept the trinity then what was jesus?

New postby jasoncran on Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:15 am
matthew 28;29, go ye unto the world baptising the then in the name of the father , the son and the holy ghost. hard to see those as one and the same being when they has a triune nature to that.

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Craig said;
What? I am not sure what you are trying to show? Please explain your self better!

Are you trying to show a verse that proves God the Son or what?

john 1:1

in the beginning was the word, and word was with God, and Word was God.

vs 12 and Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us and we beheld his glory.

now then shows that the God and jesus are two seperate things, yet then it says that word(jesus) was God, and came to the earth. so how can jesus be God and seperate from God? i awit the response then i will add how the hs is the third person and where that is, and also why that first verse is a hint to the trinity.


and btw the word BIBLE isnt in the BIBLE nor which books should be in the bible. The bible doesnt define what word of God is by books mentioned.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote francis : "You say God created woman in His image,"

----------------------

Hi Joe :

ahhhh, No, I didn't say any such thing !

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote francis : "but where is this female in God???"
-----------------------

Hi Joe :

The female is not "in God" at this time". God seperated his female side from his male side, as he did the first man Adam. She was sent into the wilderness by our dear heavenly Father, who gave her two wings. Ref: Rev. 12:14

And Galatians 4:23 - 28 - "Jerusalem which is above is free, and the mother of us all" -- "yet , she is barren"

 

[Sinthesis]

Quote francis : "but where is this female in God???"
-----------------------

Hi Joe :

The female is not "in God" at this time". God seperated his female side from his male side, as he did the first man Adam. She was sent into the wilderness by our dear heavenly Father, who gave her two wings. Ref: Rev. 12:14

And Galatians 4:23 - 28 - "Jerusalem which is above is free, and the mother of us all" -- "yet , she is barren"

Really? You believe God is going to nourish his female side from the face of the serpent? :biglaugh

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote francis : "but where is this female in God???"
-----------------------

Hi Joe :

The female is not "in God" at this time". God seperated his female side from his male side, as he did the first man Adam. She was sent into the wilderness by our dear heavenly Father, who gave her two wings. Ref: Rev. 12:14

And Galatians 4:23 - 28 - "Jerusalem which is above is free, and the mother of us all" -- "yet , she is barren"

Really? You believe God is going to nourish his female side from the face of the serpent? :biglaugh

LOL

You don't ? :rolling

 

[jasoncran]

god isnt male nor female if he isnt a person,.lol

 

[Mysteryman]

god isnt male nor female if he isnt a person,.lol

Which gun manual did you take that out of ? :rolling

 

[francisdesales]

Hi Joe :

The female is not "in God" at this time". God seperated his female side from his male side, as he did the first man Adam. She was sent into the wilderness by our dear heavenly Father, who gave her two wings. Ref: Rev. 12:14

You are quite the silly guy. The "woman" of Revelations 12 is not made in the image of God, that is an image of Israel, not God.

Now, did you not say that God created male and female in His image? Thus, what part of God is female??? Simple question, no answer...

Perhaps you should go back to the heresy drawing board on this...

 

[shad]

god isnt male nor female if he isnt a person,.lol

You are so right that God is not male or female.

 

[francisdesales]

Quote francis : "but where is this female in God???"
-----------------------

Hi Joe :

The female is not "in God" at this time". God seperated his female side from his male side, as he did the first man Adam. She was sent into the wilderness by our dear heavenly Father, who gave her two wings. Ref: Rev. 12:14

And Galatians 4:23 - 28 - "Jerusalem which is above is free, and the mother of us all" -- "yet , she is barren"

Really? You believe God is going to nourish his female side from the face of the serpent? :biglaugh

LOL

You don't ? :rolling

Who does? God is going to nourish His "female" side (meaning God must have some sort of gender?) with the devil. Oh, that's rich... :o

You should quit while you are behind. Again.

 

[shad]

MM,

You are starting to lose me. I am beginning to understand why your user name is MysteryMan.

 

[francisdesales]

god isnt male nor female if he isnt a person,.lol

Another failed theology, once questioned, is found wanting...

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

: "You say God created woman in His image,"

Hi Joe :

ahhhh, No, I didn't say any such thing !

Yea you did...

God created man in his own image male and female.

You wrote that. Now explain yourself.

So in what way is the female in God's image??? Gender? Personhood? Oh, strike that, God is not a person, according to you... Why is "male and female" in God's image?? If God made "male and female" in His image, why is there a need to create TWO??? If God is making creatures in His image, He could merely make one and give them a soul and a spirit, and the Man would be One, just like God. But mankind is NOT "one". Thus, the numbering is the image itself...

This is why marriage is such a wonderful mystery pointing to the Blessed Trinity... Two become as of one mind. Add some Love, and you get a third person, just like the Trinity...

Thanks in advance...

 

[dadof10]

God is Spirit ! True, Jesus Christ was not created, I agree. He was born of the virgin Mary, and the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary. Jesus the Christ, is both, the son of man and the Son of God. Thus, his flesh is of man, which was taken from the earth. However, his seed is spiritual, which comes from his Father. Jesus the Christ is the seed Son of God - speaking spiritually.

I've been waiting for clarification on this for some time now. I'm curious about your view on how Jesus could not have a Creator, yet not be God. If He is Uncreated, then He is, in some way, God, correct? Thanks.

Hi dad

Just re-read what I wrote within the box of this reply !

I don't understand what you wrote, which is why I'm asking for clarification. Does Jesus have two natures, in your opinion, one created and one Uncreated? Is that what "his flesh is of man, which was taken from the earth" and "Jesus the Christ is seed son of God" means?

Are you saying Jesus spirit is Uncreated and He just put on a meat puppet when He was born?

Are you saying Jesus was an "uncreated" being in heaven, became Jesus on earth, then turned back into an "uncreated" being after the Ascension?

I'm just asking for clarification. After all, this is the OP.

 

[jasoncran]

god isnt male nor female if he isnt a person,.lol

Another failed theology, once questioned, is found wanting...

Regards

yes, some took the bait here, that was the point, he is as spirit, where in the bible is angel refered in the feminine. all spirits are person(philosophy point) but not in possesion of gender.

the male has certian attributes of god
these in general
the protector. the provider, the worker, the tenderheart. the teacher, the leader, the maker of life, the role model

the female
the nurturer, the soft one, the maker and keeper at home, the encourager her, the maker of life! the teacher of the kids


in holy matrimony, we get the whole picture of god when kids are included, not that those dont have kids dont point to the lord. they do as well.

 

[Mohrb]

A JW agreeing with a catholic:

I agree that God "Creating man and woman in his image" doesn't mean that God is physically either male or female. It's unlikely that we have the PHYSICAL form of God because there's no reason to believe that God has a specific finite physical form. However, unlike animals, we have freedom of choice rather than being simply drawn by instinct. We were created as a life form higher than animals. Our morality and spirituality is what makes us in God's (spiritual) image. That's what he meant in Psalms 82:6 (and referenced in John 10:34). Although humans are called Elohim (or theoi)... we're not literally deities. But, qualitatively we are "godlike" to the extent that we're in God's (spiritual) image... and as Jesus so vividly put in John 17... by serving God, we're in union with the Father JUST AS the Son is.

... it's not about physical characteristics. Yes, God is generally referred to with masculine pronouns. However God is no more "male" than "female." He's just not a sexual being. And "he" is only used for lack of a better term (considering "it" doesn't tend to be seen as "respectful" even though nonsexual terms would likely be more accurate). In the end... Jesus called him his "Father"... therefore we refer to "him" as "Him."

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi Joe :

The female is not "in God" at this time". God seperated his female side from his male side, as he did the first man Adam. She was sent into the wilderness by our dear heavenly Father, who gave her two wings. Ref: Rev. 12:14

You are quite the silly guy. The "woman" of Revelations 12 is not made in the image of God, that is an image of Israel, not God.

Now, did you not say that God created male and female in His image? Thus, what part of God is female??? Simple question, no answer...

Perhaps you should go back to the heresy drawing board on this...

--------------

Hi Joe :

I see a reading problem within your life. Read just what I type Joe ! God did not create male and female in His image !

God created "man" , both male and female

The revealed mystery deals with Christ as the head of the body, in a marriage, the two becoming one, Christ the male, and the body of Christ (members) is the female to Christ , which is the image of the invisible God - Colossians 1:13 - 15

Gen. 1:27 - "So God created man" ---- "in his image" ---- " in the image of God created he him" ------ " male and female created he them"

Within the Word of God, to give you an example, wisdom is called a "she".

I Corinth. 11:7 - "For man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God : but the woman is the glory of the man"

The principle is -- The two shall become one

We are dealing with ------ the image of God, and it starts with the principle that the two shall become one.

The Jerusalem that is above, is the mother of us all, yet barren. (Galatians 4:27 - 29)(There are two Jerusalems here, one in bondage of the flesh, with her children - The other is above, spiritual, free, and is the mother of us all) This is the female side of God. This is why there is going to be a marriage unto the Lamb that we read about in the book of Rev. . The New Jerusalem and the Lamb ( God ) will become one again . For God is One. And the priciple, is that the two will become one again !

Bless

 

[Mysteryman]

A JW agreeing with a catholic:

I agree that God "Creating man and woman in his image" doesn't mean that God is physically either male or female. It's unlikely that we have the PHYSICAL form of God because there's no reason to believe that God has a specific finite physical form. However, unlike animals, we have freedom of choice rather than being simply drawn by instinct. We were created as a life form higher than animals. Our morality and spirituality is what makes us in God's (spiritual) image. That's what he meant in Psalms 82:6 (and referenced in John 10:34). Although humans are called Elohim (or theoi)... we're not literally deities. But, qualitatively we are "godlike" to the extent that we're in God's (spiritual) image... and as Jesus so vividly put in John 17... by serving God, we're in union with the Father JUST AS the Son is.

... it's not about physical characteristics. Yes, God is generally referred to with masculine pronouns. However God is no more "male" than "female." He's just not a sexual being. And "he" is only used for lack of a better term (considering "it" doesn't tend to be seen as "respectful" even though nonsexual terms would likely be more accurate). In the end... Jesus called him his "Father"... therefore we refer to "him" as "Him."

---------------

Hi Chris

God is also our Father, which is male gender. This has nothing to do with sex ! We are dealing with spirituality, not physicality.

Of course we are dealing with male and female when it pertains to God. We are speaking spiritually , and if you do not believe that the image of God, is as God has described throughout His Word, then you are missing the whole picture.

A father is of the male gender , both mankind as well as animal kind, as well as spiritual kind.

Father - he - him = male gender

mother - her - she = female gender

 

[shad]

The word "Father" is used as Leading role, not as male or female. There is no genders in spritual beings. God and the angels are spirital beings.

 

[francisdesales]

Hi Joe :

I see a reading problem within your life. Read just what I type Joe ! God did not create male and female in His image !

God created "man" , both male and female

Yea, I'm having a hard time following your argument, since it seems to fluctuate...

I'm going to ask you again, "in what way is man, male and female, the two of them together, in God's image?"

You talk about male being in God's image by the comparison between God the Father, "male gender", you highlight, but nothing on female. Man is in God's image, male and female, but you claim that man's female side is separated from the male side..."God seperated his female side from his male side, as he did the first man Adam", you wrote????

Genesis 1 says God created man, which consists of two persons, male and female. How is man, MALE AND FEMALE, in God's image?

When male and female are joined together in marriage, how does this image God?