if one doest accept the trinity then what was jesus?

[stovebolts]

Question from Jeff : "Also, wouldn't his total lifespan really be 2,930 years or don't the first 2,000 count because he wasn't really a "Living Soul" the first 2,000 years of his life?"

----------------------

Hi Jeff :

I though I would handle this seperately.

Adam did not have life until God breathed into the nostriles of the man Adam, and Adam became a living soul. This is when the life of Adam started.

Bless

Hervey,
I wanted you to know that I've read your two posts several times and I do believe I have read them with your lense. Kuddo's to you for solving a few 'mysteries', thus the "on that day you shall surely die". However, by nailing one issue, it's opened a different can of worms for me. Perhaps you could address this.

You state that until 'day 8' Adam did not have life. What do you mean by life?

When I think of life, I think about somebody who's coherent, moves, breaths, speaks etc. In the since of creation, life is to live, to be alive as we know it.

So help me out here again, becuase if Adam was dead for 2,000 years (2 day's in God's calendar), then how do you see this?

Gen 1:1:28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply! Fill the earth and subdue it! Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that moves on the ground.†1:29 Then God said, “I now give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the entire earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 1:30 And to all the animals of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to all the creatures that move on the ground – everything that has the breath of life in it – I give every green plant for food.†It was so.

1:31 God saw all that he had made – and it was very good! There was evening, and there was morning, the sixth day.

According to what you've written, Adam was created, but he wasn't alive (that happens on day 8 right?). You've also stated the animals etc were also not formed until the 8th day. Yet God gives this command on the 6th day.

So what do you mean by "life, aka Alive". How are we to discern the command to everything that has the breath of life in it which was spoken on day 6, to things that are not alive until day 8?...

Help a fellow out again would ya?

 

[francisdesales]

And to all the animals of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to all the creatures that move on the ground – everything that has the breath of life in it – I give every green plant for food.†It was so.

It appears that God's creation was already alive on day 6, Genesis 1, thus, the fallacy of trying to make Genesis 2 "day 8". God's creatures were "VERY GOOD" on day 6, already alive and animated. Even given green plants to eat (a strange need, if all of creation was dead and waiting 2000 years to be animated...)!

Thus, this theology belongs in the dustbin. What is amazing is the text twisting and lack of logical thought involved to try to subvert what Christianity has believed for hundreds and hundreds of years...

 

[Mysteryman]

Question from Jeff : "Also, wouldn't his total lifespan really be 2,930 years or don't the first 2,000 count because he wasn't really a "Living Soul" the first 2,000 years of his life?"

----------------------

Hi Jeff :

I though I would handle this seperately.

Adam did not have life until God breathed into the nostriles of the man Adam, and Adam became a living soul. This is when the life of Adam started.

Bless

Hervey,
I wanted you to know that I've read your two posts several times and I do believe I have read them with your lense. Kuddo's to you for solving a few 'mysteries', thus the "on that day you shall surely die". However, by nailing one issue, it's opened a different can of worms for me. Perhaps you could address this.

You state that until 'day 8' Adam did not have life. What do you mean by life?

When I think of life, I think about somebody who's coherent, moves, breaths, speaks etc. In the since of creation, life is to live, to be alive as we know it.

So help me out here again, becuase if Adam was dead for 2,000 years (2 day's in God's calendar), then how do you see this?

Gen 1:1:28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply! Fill the earth and subdue it! Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that moves on the ground.†1:29 Then God said, “I now give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the entire earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 1:30 And to all the animals of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to all the creatures that move on the ground – everything that has the breath of life in it – I give every green plant for food.†It was so.

1:31 God saw all that he had made – and it was very good! There was evening, and there was morning, the sixth day.

According to what you've written, Adam was created, but he wasn't alive (that happens on day 8 right?). You've also stated the animals etc were also not formed until the 8th day. Yet God gives this command on the 6th day.

So what do you mean by "life, aka Alive". How are we to discern the command to everything that has the breath of life in it which was spoken on day 6, to things that are not alive until day 8?...

Help a fellow out again would ya?

---------------

Hi Jeff:

Again, I will do my best, but I will also let God do the rest, as he is the one who opens up the eyes of one's understanding. Like Paul said, plant and water, and God gives the increase. That said ---

If you can follow what I have shared with you (if), then you should have noticed that God had not caused it to rain as of yet, so nothing grew, nor did anything have life that was to have breath in it.

The only thing that God did, was make or create everything of its own kind. Animal kind, plant kind, fowl kind, and mankind. Everything had life in itself, but God still needed to bring forth rain, a key factor for life to begin. Plus God didn't plant anything until he caused it to rain. He also didn't form anything until he had caused it to rain. The man was formed first, then God planted, and then God formed every beast of the field, etc. God had Adam name all of the animals , after God had formed them, which all occured on the eighth day. On the third day, God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding fruit, after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth, and it was so.

But even on the third day, the earth was dry - Gen. 1:10, And there was no sun, nor moon.

On the fourth day, God made two great light, one to rule the night, and the other to rule the day. Our sun and moon. The greater light is the sun and the lesser light is the moon. And he made the stars also.

On the sixth day we know that God made and created. So what God was saying in these verses, was still future. This occured on the eighth day. Life in itself still, but no breathing life as of yet. This is because the earth was dry and God had not, as of yet, caused it to rain.

After God caused it to rain, which took place on the eighth day , God formed man from the wet dust of the earth and breathed into his nostriles the breath of life (which includes the spirit of man btw). And man became a living soul. This is when Adam's life began. His soul life. Man became a living soul.

 

[stovebolts]

Well Hervey, I've read your latest reply several times, and it doesn't make since. Kuddos that your other long reply at least made sense, however, it did raise a few questions, and your reply doesn't really address them in a way I could understand

Let me explain, It sounds as if rain was a factor in the formation of man according to your interpretation, but the texts says dust of the earth, and we both know that if it had rained, then the dust would have been called mud when man was formed, thus the text should have read, "And God formed man from the mud of the earth."

But that is simply a technicality, so if you could clarify this for me, maybe I can understand what you are trying to say.

You say that in day 6, all the animals and man had life in them, or as you put it, " had life in itself".

What are you calling life here? I mean, at day 6 what is it to have life in oneself? I mean, it's 2,000 years before man is formed, and thus becomes a 'living soul', but what is one who has life, yet isn't a living soul? Does he breath? Does he walk? Does he eat? I mean, what shape does this creating Adam take on and where is this Adam for 2,000 years until his formation, to which starts his biological clock?

I'm just trying to understand what your saying Hervey.

Thanks

 

[Mysteryman]

Well Hervey, I've read your latest reply several times, and it doesn't make since. Kuddos that your other long reply at least made sense, however, it did raise a few questions, and your reply doesn't really address them in a way I could understand

Let me explain, It sounds as if rain was a factor in the formation of man according to your interpretation, but the texts says dust of the earth, and we both know that if it had rained, then the dust would have been called mud when man was formed, thus the text should have read, "And God formed man from the mud of the earth."

But that is simply a technicality, so if you could clarify this for me, maybe I can understand what you are trying to say.

You say that in day 6, all the animals and man had life in them, or as you put it, " had life in itself".

What are you calling life here? I mean, at day 6 what is it to have life in oneself? I mean, it's 2,000 years before man is formed, and thus becomes a 'living soul', but what is one who has life, yet isn't a living soul? Does he breath? Does he walk? Does he eat? I mean, what shape does this creating Adam take on and where is this Adam for 2,000 years until his formation, to which starts his biological clock?

I'm just trying to understand what your saying Hervey.

Thanks

Hi Jeff:

We could go on , but I am not sure if you are able to understand, at least not at this paticular time/moment.

Life in itself, means that animal, plant , or mankind, prior to God forming man, and animal, and planting the seed of plants, etc., has the potential for life. The key componets for reproduction. For instance, in the seed of a plant. After the seed is planted, and watered, it grows and matures, and has both male and female . Some plants can reproduce by wind pollination - the anther to the stigma. Corn would be a great example. Once the corn is mature, the corn can be eaten, or re-planted , because the seed has life in itself. But the same factors apply. It needs to be planted and watered once again, for the cycle to occur all over again. Fruitful and multiply.

From one man, the man Adam, we have seen a tremendous amout of multiplying. But , before the one man Adam could multiply, and become fruitful. God had to take the female out of the one man Adam.

The word "dust" implies earth/ground/soil, plus water = rain. From dust thou has been taken, and unto dust thou shalt return. Everything is in a cycle. Water cycles from the earth , up too the clouds, and back down again as rain. Same with seed, which needs to be planted and watered. The seed of mankind as well as animals, as well as plant life.

Hence we get the parable of the seed and the sower. On what kind of ground does it fall upon ?

 

[stovebolts]

Ok, so let me get this straight.

You're saying,

In Genesis 1, Man and Woman are "in" Adam as Woman has not yet come from man, as she is 'formed' from the rib of Adam after Adam was formed 2,000 years later on day 8 (gen 2:7).

So, when we look at Gen 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply! Fill the earth and subdue it!

God was talking to woman, through Adam, thus the blessing of "them" in verse 1:28. Right?

So at this point (gen 1:27), Adam is still just a seed (which contains the woman) that has the potential of life, but really isn't alive for another 2,000 years, so when God created this seed, he's basically blessing a seed and commanding a seed. Right?

Further down in 1:29 it says, "everything that has the breath of life in it"
I assume this also points to a future event as well?

So, Adam was a seed. What do you think the physical attributes of Adam were in Genesis 1 since he had not yet been 'formed' from the 'dust' of the earth. Do you suppose Adam was simply within God's mind? Thus "created" not "formed"?

Remind me again so I don't have to search on your usage of created vs. formed. What is the difference in them again? I believe it came from the 'God creates evil" thread back when.

Just want to make sure we're on the same page. Am I misunderstanding you?

 

[Mysteryman]

Ok, so let me get this straight.

You're saying,

In Genesis 1, Man and Woman are "in" Adam as Woman has not yet come from man, as she is 'formed' from the rib of Adam after Adam was formed 2,000 years later on day 8 (gen 2:7).I am not saying, the Word is saying , that God created man both male and female (not man and woman)

So, when we look at Gen 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply! Fill the earth and subdue it!

God was talking to woman, through Adam, thus the blessing of "them" in verse 1:28. Right? Correct, God talked to the man first, and Adam then talked to the woman. In Gen. 1:28 God created man. The man Adam didn't talk to the woman until after God "made" her. What God was saying here in Gen. 1:27 and 28, he was speaking of the seed / kind, to be fruitful and multiplyThis mankind would be fruitful and multiply. Adam did not have to express this to the woman. It was engrained within the seed of man.

So at this point (gen 1:27), Adam is still just a seed (which contains the woman) that has the potential of life, but really isn't alive for another 2,000 years, so when God created this seed, he's basically blessing a seed and commanding a seed. Right?Yes and no. The man is just kind, the potential, seed. Which contain male and female. The woman did not become a woman, until God took a rib from the one man Adam, then God made woman

Further down in 1:29 it says, "everything that has the breath of life in it"
I assume this also points to a future event as well?Correct, it had not rained yet, and God had not planted anything as of yet. This includes beasts that still needed to be formed as of yet, which happens on day eight.

So, Adam was a seed. What do you think the physical attributes of Adam were in Genesis 1 since he had not yet been 'formed' from the 'dust' of the earth. Do you suppose Adam was simply within God's mind? Thus "created" not "formed"?What physical attributes ? He only had physical attribute after he was formed. No, he was not just in God's mind. God had created man both male and female in the one man , which had not been formed as of yet. I understand that this can sound confusing, but its not. All God created, was the potential - Kind/seed

Remind me again so I don't have to search on your usage of created vs. formed. What is the difference in them again? I believe it came from the 'God creates evil" thread back when.Yes, I remember our conversation very well. God only creates that which never existed before. Man was created in the image of God, both male and female. Everything God creates is based upon that which never existed before. God is all light and in him is no darkness, so God had to create darkness. The same with evil, etc.

Just want to make sure we're on the same page. Am I misunderstanding you?

Well, for the most part, yes, you do not understand, as least by this reply here. You seem to be getting closer. But you keep calling the first man who was created, man and woman, but God didn't create man and woman. God created man in the image of God, both male and female. Everything came to life from the potential of life on day eight. On day eight, God breathed into the nostriles of man, and man became a living soul, and also on day eight God made woman. And on day eight man disobeyed God. And on day eight man died .

Bless

 

[Mysteryman]

And just in case anyone is interested. This is also why God had the new born males, circumcised on the eighth day.

Bless

 

[shad]

Yes, God is Spirit, and angels are spirit beings. Yes there are genders in spirit beings !

Here is what Jesus says:

30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Matt22

 

[jasoncran]

mm, if a spirit has genders and god is a spirit, by your thinking the lord is a person. and that negates half this thread posts of yours agianst the trinity.

man pray you are blind. when you really contradict yourself twice. then its time to think a look and what you are trying to say. i'm not trying to insult you.

 

[Mysteryman]

mm, if a spirit has genders and god is a spirit, by your thinking the lord is a person. and that negates half this thread posts of yours agianst the trinity.

man pray you are blind. when you really contradict yourself twice. then its time to think a look and what you are trying to say. i'm not trying to insult you.

Hi Jason:

Or at least your not trying too to insult me - :rolling . Don't worry, I know you are just trying to express yourself to me. I appreciate that.

Which Lord are you talking about here ? The Lord Jesus Christ ? Yes, he was a man who came in the flesh = a person

I never contradict myself. However, you might think so, which just boggles my mind.

 

[francisdesales]

You seem to be getting closer. But you keep calling the first man who was created, man and woman, but God didn't create man and woman. God created man in the image of God, both male and female.

Which means your crazy idea is out the window, because God had ALREADY created female when "your" day 8 came into existence.

Everything came to life from the potential of life on day eight.

Wrong. The "potential" of life means it didn't exist yet, when Genesis 1 says man came into being AS male and female...

 

[francisdesales]

I never contradict myself. However, you might think so, which just boggles my mind.

Let's correct that first statement, Mysteryman...

"I never admit to contradicting myself".

There, that's better. That everyone sees you are contradicting yourself should be a sign to you that you are again refusing to admit what is obvious to everyone else...

Quit while you are behind...

 

[francisdesales]

And just in case anyone is interested. This is also why God had the new born males, circumcised on the eighth day.

Bless

Where exactly does Genesis 2 say that ANYTHING that you pretend happened, actually happened on the 'eighth day'???

 

[Mysteryman]

Yes, God is Spirit, and angels are spirit beings. Yes there are genders in spirit beings !

Here is what Jesus says:

30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Matt22

Hi shad :

Yes I know. Angels were not made by God to pro-create. But in heaven, Gabriel and Michael are angels, and this is why in heaven they have male gender names. Even when we get to heaven, we will still be called sons of God = male gender. Lucifer was the angel of light. He also had a male gender name. Now God has called him Satan the devil. The name Satan is female gender. The name Devil is male gender. She is the whore in the book of Rev.

A woman does not have seed of herself. Her male offspring (son) is her seed. The serpent is a "he" - Rev. 12:15. In Genesis 3:15 and God said, "I will put enmity between thee and the woman and between thy seed and her seed. The seed (male gender) of the serpent is from all those who lie and hate the brethren/murderers. The Devil does not have any literal seed of himself to bring forth offspring. However, he does have the ability to have some follow him as he did with one third of all the angels from heaven. This is why, when Jesus was talking to these in John 8:40 - 44 - "You are of your father the Devil" -- "he was a murderer from the beginning" -- "when he speaks, he speaks lies". Doing the deed of their father the devil. < Here the Devil takes on the male gender.

Like I said, the word Satan takes on the female gender. This is why Jesus said to Satan in Matt. 16:23 - "Get thou behind me Satan". The woman is to walk behind the man. So Jesus was putting her in her place. Spiritual speaking of course.

This is just a gist .

 

[shad]

Like I said, the word Satan takes on the female gender. This is why Jesus said to Satan in Matt. 16:23 - "Get thou behind me Satan". The woman is to walk behind the man. So Jesus was putting her in her place. Spiritual speaking of course.

This is just a gist .

You are making it up as well as many others.

take care.

 

[dadof10]

I think it is being invented and reinvented as we speak...

That would explain a lot.

 

[jasoncran]

:crazy satan a woman? the tempter always referred to he or named. ie resist the devil and HE will flee from you.

note the antecedent is the devil, and he is the masucline pronoun for a male.

 

[Mysteryman]

:crazy satan a woman? the tempter always referred to he or named. ie resist the devil and HE will flee from you.

note the antecedent is the devil, and he is the masucline pronoun for a male.

Hi Jason :

For the most part, the whole Word of God is a masculine noun or pronoun. In Christ , there is neither male nor female - correct ? Yet, all those in Christ , are called sons of God.

Yes Jason, I alread said that the Devil is a He. So why are you trying to correct me, when there is no need to do so ? Could it be that you don't read what I have written ? My explanation to shad is quite clear.

Let me ask you, who is the whore in the book of Revelation - chapter 17 ?

 

[jasoncran]

that is the system of religion set up by the antic-christ or satan. a false church.