if one doest accept the trinity then what was jesus?

[jasoncran]

:crazy mm, you cant be the only one here who has "this" revalation.
i have read the entire bible thrice, and never ever will or could know it all. when i do look at the basic foundations of why i believe and post here in defense more questions are raised, not doubts, but ones that are from deeper revalations.

such as this, if evo is true then why was death before adam.? i know the answer but there are some areas that we dont fully understand why god allows suffering, i try not understand why, only that god is control. i wont ever be able full comprehend the story of creation, cant i wasnt mean to just believe that god did create.

 

[Elijah674]

Gen.1
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. ...' (Who is meant to be the other person later on? One who has Immortality as the Godhead, or material as in the earth or created non/immortal beings such as angels or creatures of other worlds as spoken of twice in the book of Heb.?)

[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost without an Image)

Hi, me again. Did any of you catch the Words of the Spirit Working WORLDWIDE in this passage at this time/period?? After Adam's sin satan took over Adams domain. And Christ/God worked under a temp. handy/cap. (Gen. 1:28 + Matt. 4:8-9)

This is a good reason why some get confused about the Holy Spirit & the Godhead. In other Words the Eternal Gospel of Christ (Rev. 14:6) was the PLAN that the Godhead were required to use after Adam lost his domain to satan. Bottom/line found the Truth working from a central location. Even Cain was talked to by God Himself in person. Gen. 4:7 & later came Psalms 77:13

--Elijah

 

[jasoncran]

elijah i dont accept evolution. i was making a point.

 

[Mysteryman]

:crazy mm, you cant be the only one here who has "this" revalation.
i have read the entire bible thrice, and never ever will or could know it all. when i do look at the basic foundations of why i believe and post here in defense more questions are raised, not doubts, but ones that are from deeper revalations.

such as this, if evo is true then why was death before adam.? i know the answer but there are some areas that we dont fully understand why god allows suffering, i try not understand why, only that god is control. i wont ever be able full comprehend the story of creation, cant i wasnt mean to just believe that god did create.

Hi Jason:

I never said, "I know it all", these other posters did. Don't fall into a trap within a conversation on these boards.

I said that I fully understand the mysteries of God. When it comes to the Word of God, the mysteries of God are what hold all the scriptures in proper perspective. And, on top of that, the Word tells us, that we only know in part at this time.

But what is available to us, as far as our understanding. One needs to pray and seek = ask = and ye shall receive. It is a promise of God. Do we doubt the promises of God ? I fully understand that every man falls short of the glory of God. That includes myself.

However, I do understand the so called creation story in Genesis. It is my belief, that if one can understand the first five books of the bible. Then reading the rest of the bible is much easier.

However, this all must be done by the Spirit of/from God that dwells in us - Christ in us.

 

[rosswell]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 17:11 Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in US: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

 

[Mysteryman]

I carefully and constructively walked you through the days and the events of chapter one and two of Genesis. Pointing out when, how and why. That is the best I can do at this time. Of course, I could get real high minded and take you all over the scriptures from Gen. to Rev., but most christians are not capable of following me there.

which is why you tend to ignore the obvious disconnect between your interpretations and logical discussion.

Such as "how is man, made male and female, in God's image? Created

Or

In what ways is a numerically diverse creature in God's image?" What hints does the bible tell us in the immediate context?

Or

"where do you get anything going on during the 8th day from Genesis 2"?

Or

"How can you say God created inanimate creatures and called them "very good" and had completed creation at that time, only to restart creation again a few days later". "Oops, I forgot something"?Created - chapter one -- Formed - chapter 2 --- I can see that you are confused.

Or

"How is it that man was made, male and female, on day six, only to be "made again" by a different process two days later by extracting the female out of the man?"Created on day six, I can see that you are confused. Formed on day eight.

Or

"two persons become one WHAT" in marriage?

Or your various comments about male and female gender in the spiritual world...

Ah, forget it, the more I ask, the crazier the story gets...Remember what Forest Gump used to say ?

Does it sound like I am boasting ? Well, not really.

Are you calling me a liar ? Careful there Joe, judgement day is not all that far away.
Uh, yea, really...

 

[shad]

MM,

It seems that either you are ashamed of being a Christian or you are not a Christian since you will not answer the question I asked.

 

[rosswell]

Are you calling me a liar ?

2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

 

[francisdesales]

Well, I see you attempted to answer a couple questions and ignore the rest - probably not answerable in your "mysterious revelations". Let's look at what you DID attempt to answer...

Mysteryman's responses are in red to my initial questions...

Such as "how is man, made male and female, in God's image? Created

So a rock is made in God's image by this logic...
This leads me to ask - Since God is not created, HOW can THIS be a model of God's image???

Nope.

"How can you say God created inanimate creatures and called them "very good" and had completed creation at that time, only to restart creation again a few days later". "Oops, I forgot something"?Created - chapter one -- Formed - chapter 2 --- I can see that you are confused.

The confusion is all over there, mysteryman...

There is no appreciable difference between "created" and "formed" in Genesis 1/2. That is an artificial distinction you are inventing to attempt to make the thing fit through your seive of mystery...

Create = to cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes.

Formed = to construct or frame; to make or produce; to serve to make up; serve as; compose; constitute: The remaining members will form the program committee.

As a matter of fact, the Lexicon on Blueletterbible.org considers the terms to be synonymous...The only difference is that "create" always has God as the Subject. "Formed" can have a human as the subject, the one doing the forming. Obviously, this is not the case in Genesis 2, so you present a false distinction

So again, nope.

"How is it that man was made, male and female, on day six, only to be "made again" by a different process two days later by extracting the female out of the man?"Created on day six, I can see that you are confused. Formed on day eight.

False premise dependent upon a non-existent difference ...

I suppose the other questions were too difficult to attempt...

Ah, forget it, the more I ask, the crazier the story gets...Remember what Forest Gump used to say ?

I suppose you are refering to the "life is like a bunch of chocolates, and every once in awhile you run into a nut"? ..

Are you calling me a liar ?

No, just someone with a superiority complex who is in denial that his cherished "interpretations" have been so shot through...

But don't worry, there is still time to recant. I've tried to allow you to save face, but you insist on showing everyone the extant of the wacked ideas you seem to possess AND CALL THEM "revelations"... If it wasn't for that, hey whatever, but there is a slim chance someone may be influenced by this silliness, so I must insist on continuing to point out the problems with your "theology". Nothing personal...

 

[jasoncran]

i want to know,mm, how is that you came to the conclusion that on the eighth day, god made man?

when its says in exodus for in six days the lord made heaven and earth and all therein

and in genesis it says that on the seventh day he rested.

 

[francisdesales]

i want to know,mm, how is that you came to the conclusion that on the eighth day, god made man?

when its says in exodus for in six days the lord made heaven and earth and all therein

and in genesis it says that on the seventh day he rested.

Hey, it's a mystery, just nod your head in awe...

 

[shad]

We went way off topic and I would like to get back on it.

if one doest accept the trinity then what was Jesus?

There was an insinuation in the above question that if we don't accept Jesus as God, we are not Christians.

Here is what Jesus says:
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matthew 7:21)

Just because you claim Jesus is God does not make you His follower. He says it clearly that we are His if we do the will of His Father in heaven, not just lip serving.

 

[Free]

Here is what Jesus says:
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matthew 7:21)

Just because you claim Jesus is God does not make you His follower. He says it clearly that we are His if we do the will of His Father in heaven, not just lip serving.

Correction, just because one claims Jesus is Lord does not make them His follower, unless you want to claim that calling Jesus 'Lord' is the same as calling him 'God.'

 

[shad]

Here is what Jesus says:
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matthew 7:21)

Just because you claim Jesus is God does not make you His follower. He says it clearly that we are His if we do the will of His Father in heaven, not just lip serving.

Correction, just because one claims Jesus is Lord does not make them His follower, unless you want to claim that calling Jesus 'Lord' is the same as calling him 'God.'

So are you saying because you call Him God you are His follower without doing the will of the Father?

 

[shad]

Free, are you saying that Jesus is telling us that the will of His Father is calling Jesus God?

 

[Sinthesis]

I never said, "I know it all", these other posters did. Don't fall into a trap within a conversation on these boards.

I said that I fully understand the mysteries of God. When it comes to the Word of God, the mysteries of God are what hold all the scriptures in proper perspective. And, on top of that, the Word tells us, that we only know in part at this time.

But what is available to us, as far as our understanding. One needs to pray and seek = ask = and ye shall receive. It is a promise of God. Do we doubt the promises of God ? I fully understand that every man falls short of the glory of God. That includes myself.

However, I do understand the so called creation story in Genesis. It is my belief, that if one can understand the first five books of the bible. Then reading the rest of the bible is much easier.

However, this all must be done by the Spirit of/from God that dwells in us - Christ in us.

:gah I doubt the "Spirit of/from God that dwells in us - Christ in us" wants the credit for your understanding of Biblical proportions.

Synonymous?

• Isa 43:1 ¶ But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called [thee] by thy name; thou [art] mine.
  
  Isa 43:7 - [Even] every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
  
  Isa 45:18 ¶ For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else.

 

[Sinthesis]

Free, are you saying that Jesus is telling us that the will of His Father is calling Jesus God?

• Jhn 5:21 - For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
  Jhn 5:22 - For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
  Jhn 5:23 - That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

[francisdesales]

I never said, "I know it all", these other posters did. Don't fall into a trap within a conversation on these boards.

I said that I fully understand the mysteries of God. When it comes to the Word of God, the mysteries of God are what hold all the scriptures in proper perspective. And, on top of that, the Word tells us, that we only know in part at this time.

But what is available to us, as far as our understanding. One needs to pray and seek = ask = and ye shall receive. It is a promise of God. Do we doubt the promises of God ? I fully understand that every man falls short of the glory of God. That includes myself.

However, I do understand the so called creation story in Genesis. It is my belief, that if one can understand the first five books of the bible. Then reading the rest of the bible is much easier.

However, this all must be done by the Spirit of/from God that dwells in us - Christ in us.

:gah I doubt the "Spirit of/from God that dwells in us - Christ in us" wants the credit for your understanding of Biblical proportions.

Synonymous?

• Isa 43:1 ¶ But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called [thee] by thy name; thou [art] mine.
  
  Isa 43:7 - [Even] every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
  
  Isa 45:18 ¶ For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else.

Yes, thanks for those examples...

What I find odd is that the more wacked and contradictory a theory, the more the person claims to be led by God's Spirit and have some sort of unique revelation from God Himself...

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Free, are you saying that Jesus is telling us that the will of His Father is calling Jesus God?

• Jhn 5:21 - For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
  Jhn 5:22 - For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
  Jhn 5:23 - That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

To a first century Jew, I would surmise that when one hears that God the Father has handed all judgment to His Son, then they would conclude that the Son is God in some as yet unexplained way...

I tried to list some Divine attributes applied to Jesus which would lead one to say "Jesus = God", but that got no traction here...

Regards

 

[shad]

Francis,

Do you agree with Free's correction? If so, would you answer to my questions please?

thanks.