if one doest accept the trinity then what was jesus?

[westtexas]

1 Cor 15:28
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him That put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

Which version are you quoting here mdo?

 

[jasoncran]

how, when you claim that the bible itsself is corrupted. all versions
how do i know that verse isnt corrupted.

where do we stop with that thinking?

 

[shad]

Jason,

Here is another very clear statemement of Jesus:

John 20:17 (New International Version)

17Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

 

[jasoncran]

that still doesnt negate the statement of john. if the lord didnt claim God rights to glory, then why did he say that he like the father that spoke to isaiah that he is the first and the last. that means he is the only God.

if not then by your exegis we have a contradiction, and does the bible according to you lie?

btw that verse implies(poor traslation) the lord was telling mary not to get attached to him as he was leaving the earth soon to be in heaven.

 

[westtexas]

Jason,

Here is another very clear statemement of Jesus:

John 20:17 (New International Version)

17Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

Here is another clear statement of Jesus if you keep on going from your verse. Thomas didn't believe unless he saw Jesus' wounds and when he saw them he said--

John 20:28&29--(28)Thomas said to him,"My Lord and my God!" (29)Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me,you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." (NIV)

 

[shad]

Here is another clear statement of Jesus if you keep on going from your verse. Thomas didn't believe unless he saw Jesus' wounds and when he saw them he said--

John 20:28&29--(28)Thomas said to him,"My Lord and my God!" (29)Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me,you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." (NIV)

No it is not clear statement at all. My Lord is Jesus, My God is Father. If you want to believe otherwise it is plain I cannot stop you.

Thomas could easily be exclaiming to the Father and Jesus at the same time.

 

[westtexas]

Here is another clear statement of Jesus if you keep on going from your verse. Thomas didn't believe unless he saw Jesus' wounds and when he saw them he said--

John 20:28&29--(28)Thomas said to him,"My Lord and my God!" (29)Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me,you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." (NIV)

No it is not clear statement at all. My Lord is Jesus, My God is Father. If you want to believe otherwise is plain I cannot stop you.

It looks like a pretty clear statement to me! Thomas called Jesus "My Lord and my God" Jesus didn't rebuke Thomas for this statement either. On the contrary, He said, "Because you have seen me, you have believed". If Jesus' had not wanted Thomas to use the title "God" in reference to himself, I'm quite sure His response would have been QUITE DIFFERENT. So to quote you "If you want to believe otherwise it is plain I cannot stop you"

Westtexas

 

[westtexas]

Here is another clear statement of Jesus if you keep on going from your verse. Thomas didn't believe unless he saw Jesus' wounds and when he saw them he said--

John 20:28&29--(28)Thomas said to him,"My Lord and my God!" (29)Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me,you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." (NIV)

No it is not clear statement at all. My Lord is Jesus, My God is Father. If you want to believe otherwise it is plain I cannot stop you.

Thomas could easily be exclaiming to the Father and Jesus at the same time.

I don't know if you edited this to add the second sentence or if I just didn't see it the first time, but I'm sure you do that all the time. Have a conversation with somebody and then talk to 2 people, one of whom is not even present I know you can come up with a better defense of your position than that!!!

Westtexas

 

[shad]

Thomas could easily be exclaiming to the Father and Jesus at the same time.
I don't know if you edited this to add the second sentence or if I just didn't see it the first time, but I'm sure you do that all the time. Have a conversation with somebody and then talk to 2 people, one of whom is not even present I know you can come up with a better defense of your position than that!!!

Westtexas

What a cheap shot. Why is it so amusing that I added to my post?

You say your verse is clear but it is not at all. I just added to explain why it is not clear. Please talk like an adult instead of being belittling.

I do it all the time? You are paying attention to my posts so much? Thank you. Yes, I do a lot because first one is not complete many of the time. I am not ashamed of doing it. I want to be accurate as much as I can with my explanation in case some cheap shot comes along and nitpicking.

 

[shad]

BTW, you are lowering yourself with this kind of comment, friend.

 

[westtexas]

Shad,It's not amusing that you added to your post. We all do that all the time. And I am attempting to speak to you like an adult.

Let me try again . You state it is not a clear verse which seems to be your standard answer but please give me your answer to this question. WHY DID JESUS NOT REBUKE THOMAS FOR CALLING HIM (JESUS) MY GOD AND MY LORD?

Westtexas

 

[watchman F]

Shad,It's not amusing that you added to your post. We all do that all the time. And I am attempting to speak to you like an adult.

Let me try again . You state it is not a clear verse which seems to be your standard answer but please give me your answer to this question. WHY DID JESUS NOT REBUKE THOMAS FOR CALLING HIM (JESUS) MY GOD AND MY LORD?

Westtexas

There is no question Thomas did call Jesus His God.

 

[westtexas]

Thomas could easily be exclaiming to the Father and Jesus at the same time.
I don't know if you edited this to add the second sentence or if I just didn't see it the first time, but I'm sure you do that all the time. Have a conversation with somebody and then talk to 2 people, one of whom is not even present I know you can come up with a better defense of your position than that!!!

Westtexas

What a cheap shot. Why is it so amusing that I added to my post?

You say your verse is clear but it is not at all. I just added to explain why it is not clear. Please talk like an adult instead of being belittling.

I do it all the time? You are paying attention to my posts so much? Thank you. Yes, I do a lot because first one is not complete many of the time. I am not ashamed of doing it. I want to be accurate as much as I can with my explanation in case some cheap shot comes along and nitpicking.

Just to clarify myself here, and you have my apology if you feel I was out of line. My grammar was not to good and there should have been a comma after- you do it all the time- What I was refering to was having a conversation with 2 people. I couldn't care less if you edit every post.
Anyway, my apology and totopic

Westtexas

 

[JudaicChristian]

how, when you claim that the bible itsself is corrupted. all versions
how do i know that verse isnt corrupted.

where do we stop with that thinking?

What is the smallest nation in the world that claims the authority to change scriptures? And what scriptures do Christians always argue about? It really is as simple as that. There would be no argument among us if not for these issues. And who is the blame for that? The littlest beast!

 

[shad]

Let me try again . You state it is not a clear verse which seems to be your standard answer but please give me your answer to this question. WHY DID JESUS NOT REBUKE THOMAS FOR CALLING HIM (JESUS) MY GOD AND MY LORD?

Westtexas

I believe that translation is not clear. Jesus did not rebuke him because He knew Thomas was exclaiming to the Father too.

You see, it is not clear because we can read in more than one way.

 

[shad]

Thomas could easily be exclaiming to the Father and Jesus at the same time.
I don't know if you edited this to add the second sentence or if I just didn't see it the first time, but I'm sure you do that all the time. Have a conversation with somebody and then talk to 2 people, one of whom is not even present I know you can come up with a better defense of your position than that!!!

Westtexas

What a cheap shot. Why is it so amusing that I added to my post?

You say your verse is clear but it is not at all. I just added to explain why it is not clear. Please talk like an adult instead of being belittling.

I do it all the time? You are paying attention to my posts so much? Thank you. Yes, I do a lot because first one is not complete many of the time. I am not ashamed of doing it. I want to be accurate as much as I can with my explanation in case some cheap shot comes along and nitpicking.

Just to clarify myself here, and you have my apology if you feel I was out of line. My grammar was not to good and there should have been a comma after- you do it all the time- What I was refering to was having a conversation with 2 people. I couldn't care less if you edit every post.
Anyway, my apology and totopic

Westtexas

Apology accepted, thank you for clarifying.

 

[shad]

There is no question Thomas did call Jesus His God.

Then why did Paul say this?

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 (New International Version)
5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

 

[JudaicChristian]

There is no question Thomas did call Jesus His God.

The people who translate bible scriptures make the decision whether to add the article "a" or not. Ancient Greek and Hebrew do not have the same structure as modern English.

 

[watchman F]

There is no question Thomas did call Jesus His God.

Then why did Paul say this?

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 (New International Version)
5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

That is right Jesus Christ is the only God the Father Himself incarnate as the Son. Thanks for the verse it is one of my favorites that disproves the Trinity

 

[watchman F]

There is no question Thomas did call Jesus His God.

The people who translate bible scriptures make the decision whether to add the article "a" or not. Ancient Greek and Hebrew do not have the same structure as modern English.

You believe as you wish i will be God, as the Bible is His Word. And it was translated as He wanted it to be.