if one doest accept the trinity then what was jesus?

[shad]

[quote="watchman F":2g2uhovz]

There is no question Thomas did call Jesus His God.

Then why did Paul say this?

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 (New International Version)
5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

That is right Jesus Christ is the only God the Father Himself incarnate as the Son. Thanks for the verse it is one of my favorites that disproves the Trinity [/quote:2g2uhovz]

Is English your second language?

 

[jasoncran]

watchman if that disproves the trinity, then explain how the Lord being the Father, was afraid of death and separation from the Father, when he prayed in the garden and was in agony on the cross when he cried out father why has THOU forsaken me?

if the Christ is the Father then, how can he forsake himself? and that verse that says himself he can not deny. must also be reconciled.

 

[watchman F]

watchman if that disproves the trinity, then explain how the Lord being the Father, was afraid of death and separation from the Father, when he prayed in the garden and was in agony on the cross when he cried out father why has THOU forsaken me?

if the Christ is the Father then, how can he forsake himself? and that verse that says himself he can not deny. must also be reconciled.

So you are agreeing with those that claim Jesus is not God at all?

 

[watchman F]

Is English your second language?

is it yours?

What did Jesus say to Philip when he asked Him to show him the Father?

John 14
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Jesus told him He was the Father, but of course that doesn't fit neatly into your preconceived box, so you will just ignore it. And you have the audacity to lecture the Trinitarians.

 

[Mysteryman]

Shad,It's not amusing that you added to your post. We all do that all the time. And I am attempting to speak to you like an adult.

Let me try again . You state it is not a clear verse which seems to be your standard answer but please give me your answer to this question. WHY DID JESUS NOT REBUKE THOMAS FOR CALLING HIM (JESUS) MY GOD AND MY LORD?

Westtexas

Hi Westtexas:

Show me where it says ----- And Thomas said to Jesus, YOU(Jesus) are my Lord and my God

Way too many people put their own private interpretation upon scripture, so that a verse or phrase within scripture suggests what they are thinking.

Thomas said - "My Lord and My God"

Now, was he speaking too Jesus ?

Or

Was he speaking about God , whom raised Jesus from the dead ?

 

[Mysteryman]

Is English your second language?

is it yours?

What did Jesus say to Philip when he asked Him to show him the Father?

John 14
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Jesus told him He was the Father, but of course that doesn't fit neatly into your preconceived box, so you will just ignore it. And you have the audacity to lecture the Trinitarians.

Hi Watchman :

Now please back up your comments ! You said -- "Jesus told him He was the Father" <- Nowhere in these verses does it make that comment Watchman ! You might want to think that it does, but it does not ! !

And next time Watchman, include verses 10 and 11 and 12 as they are all part of the context . And, verses 10 - 12 explain or reveal verses 7 thru 9.

 

[watchman F]

Is English your second language?

is it yours?

What did Jesus say to Philip when he asked Him to show him the Father?

John 14
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Jesus told him He was the Father, but of course that doesn't fit neatly into your preconceived box, so you will just ignore it. And you have the audacity to lecture the Trinitarians.

Hi Watchman :

Now please back up your comments ! You said -- "Jesus told him He was the Father" <- Nowhere in these verses does it make that comment Watchman ! You might want to think that it does, but it does not ! !

And next time Watchman, include verses 10 and 11 and 12 as they are all part of the context . And, verses 10 - 12 explain or reveal verses 7 thru 9.

Seems like I should ask you the same question me and shad have been asking back and forth ''Is english your second language?''

Phillip says: Show us the Father
Jesus responds: Have I been with you so long a time and yet you do not know ME Philip?

How can you sit there and say Jesus didn't just tell me, you, Philip and everyone else that He was indeed the Father Himself?

 

[Mysteryman]

Watchman

Read verses 10 - 12, they explain verses 7 - 9 !

 

[elijah23]

Jason, we were getting off-topic so I am starting that topic here.

if one doest accept the trinity then what was jesus?

Jesus was the Lamb of God and Savior of the world, and He is many other things. Jesus does not say we have to accept Him as one of the trinity. Trinity is not used in the Bible. You are adding your own qualification for salvation. If it was so essential for salvation, why isn't even the word trinity in there?

But the Bible is very clear that Jesus has to be accepted as the Lamb of God and Savior of the world and that without Him no one will be saved, not that He should be accepted as one of the trinity.

I believe that Jesus was God in flesh.

In other words, God felt he needed to come to earth in the form of a human being to teach and be crucified, so he became Jesus and did that.

 

[shad]

In other words, God felt he needed to come to earth in the form of a human being to teach and be crucified, so he became Jesus and did that.

Then why did Paul say this?

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 (New International Version)
5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

I can bring up many more that clearly state that Jesus and Father the God are completely different Spirits.

 

[watchman F]

In other words, God felt he needed to come to earth in the form of a human being to teach and be crucified, so he became Jesus and did that.

Then why did Paul say this?

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 (New International Version)
5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

I can bring up many more that clearly state that Jesus and Father the God are completely different Spirits.

I do not understand why you keep posting this verse. How is it supposed to prove you point? I can understand if you were trying to simply disprove the trinity but this doesn't contradict the many, many passages of scripture that say Jesus is God.

 

[shad]

Just answered the question watchman.

 

[shad]

In other words, God felt he needed to come to earth in the form of a human being to teach and be crucified, so he became Jesus and did that.

I ask you the same question:

Why did Paul say this?

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 (New International Version)
5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

 

[watchman F]

In other words, God felt he needed to come to earth in the form of a human being to teach and be crucified, so he became Jesus and did that.

I ask you the same question:

Why did Paul say this?

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 (New International Version)
5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

I do not understand why you keep posting this verse. How is it supposed to prove you point? I can understand if you were trying to simply disprove the trinity but this doesn't contradict the many, many passages of scripture that say Jesus is God.

Just answered the question watchman.

But elijah wasn't promoting the trinity. He was saying Jesus was God in human form which 1st Corinthians 8:6 does nothing to disprove.

 

[shad]

Just answered the question watchman.

But elijah wasn't promoting the trinity. He was saying Jesus was God in human form which 1st Corinthians does nothing to disprove.

It seems that he is oneness too.

 

[watchman F]

Just answered the question watchman.

But elijah wasn't promoting the trinity. He was saying Jesus was God in human form which 1st Corinthians does nothing to disprove.

It seems that he is oneness too.

Good, your verse 1st Corinthians 8:6 doesn't disprove oneness it simply says that if Jesus were God, He must be God the Father, and not ''God the Son''

 

[shad]

Good, your verse 1st Corinthians 8:6 doesn't disprove oneness it simply says that if Jesus were God, He must be God the Father, and not ''God the Son''

There are many clear verses saying that Jesus is Lord and the Father is God just like the one I just showed you. There are plenty of clear verses like that.

And I am done with this discussion with you since you cannot make your case logical.

take care.

 

[watchman F]

Good, your verse 1st Corinthians 8:6 doesn't disprove oneness it simply says that if Jesus were God, He must be God the Father, and not ''God the Son''

There are many clear verses saying that Jesus is Lord and the Father is God just like the one I just showed you. There are plenty of clear verses like that.

And I am done with this discussion with you since you cannot make your case logical.

take care.

There are also many verses that say Jesus is God many I have already showed you.

as i said before if scripture says Jesus was both God and man I believe it, if scripture says He was both Lord and God I believe it, if it say He was both Father and Son I believe it. I will indeed believe the scriptures even if you refuse to.

You pick and choose what to believe while I believe it all. The bible is not a buffet where you can ignore the parts you dont like you know?

 

[watchman F]

And I am done with this discussion with you since you cannot make your case logical.

take care.

Trying to fit God into your logical, finite, human box it the definition of illogical.

You would be much better off just believing what He says.

 

[shad]

And I am done with this discussion with you since you cannot make your case logical.

take care.

Trying to fit God into your logical, finite, human box it the definition of illogical.

You are ignoring so many clear verses, and you cannot find any explanation about it. What you are doing is cherry picking. It is clear to me that your doctrine is gimmicky one so you can say that your doctrine is not in the human box.

take care.