If we are completely cleansed of all sin, for which sin will you be Judged?

[Mike S]

So it amazes me how some will say works have nothing to do with salvation when works have everything to do with salvation and where a person will be in eternity.

I disagree. Those of us who are to close the evangelical Protestant theology believe that righteous works are the RESULT of salvation, EVIDENCE of salvation, the fruits of a transformed life. But, works can never be sufficient for salvation, we are justified by faith alone.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I disagree. Those of us who are to close the evangelical Protestant theology believe that righteous works are the RESULT of salvation, EVIDENCE of salvation, the fruits of a transformed life. But, works can never be sufficient for salvation, we are justified by faith alone.

Hi,

Judgment is based on one's works therefore works must be the basis of salvation whether one's works are good, righteous, obedient or evil, unrighteous, disobedient. No one will be judged to be saved or lost based on some arbitrary, unconditional, unknown basis.

 

[Robert Hern]

From Rom 2:6-11 and 1 Pet 1:17 and 2 Cor 5:10 and Rev 20:12,13 each man will be judged according in to his works, whether those works are good or evil, obedient or disobedient, righteous or unrighteous. One whose works were good, righteous, obedient are the ones who sins have been cleansed and will be saved. Those whose works were evil, unrighteous, disobedient are those whose sins have not been cleansed and will be lost. So the type of work a person does is the standard by which God will judge. So it amazes me how some will say works have nothing to do with salvation when works have everything to do with salvation and where a person will be in eternity.

One commentator put it:

Revelation 20:12-13: “And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.”

God says our judgment will be based on what is written in the books. These will include the Bible: John 12:48 – “He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him – the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.” But it will also include a record of what we have done. For the unrighteous, these books will contain all of the unrighteousness/sin they ever committed, to include the opportunities they had to obey God and how they refused. For the righteous, these books will contain all of the righteous things/works they did, since God will not hold them accountable for their sins because the blood of Christ has removed them.

This judgment is for those who sins were only cover but not cleansed

Christians are cleansed
1 John 1

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin

 

[Mike S]

Hi,

Judgment is based on one's works therefore works must be the basis of salvation whether one's works are good, righteous, obedient or evil, unrighteous, disobedient. No one will be judged to be saved or lost based on some arbitrary, unconditional, unknown basis.

Tell me then, what was the fate of the murderer crucified on the cross next to Jesus, when Jesus said to him "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

This judgment is for those who sins were only cover but not cleansed

Christians are cleansed
1 John 1

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin

Each person will be judged according to the type of works they have done, the bible is clear on this point. Above you quote 1 Jn 1:7 where "walking in the light" is a work, a good, obedient, righteous work that must be done to have sins cleasned. So only those that do this work will be judged by their good obedient works for their evil, sinful unrighteous works have been cleansed away.


Rom 4:7 "[Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered." It takes obedient works to have inquities forgiven and sins covered.


A Barnes says of Rom 4:7: "Whose sins are covered. Are concealed; or hidden from the view. On which God will no more look, and which he will no more remember. "By these words," says Calvin, (in loco,) "we are taught that justification with Paul is nothing else but pardon of sin." The word cover here has not reference to the atonement, but is expressive of hiding, or concealing, i.e. of forgiving sin.

 

[smaller]

Jesus was speaking to the apostles here.

Jesus said this about His Words:

Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Not just Apostles. Man. Every....WORD.

s

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Tell me then, what was the fate of the murderer crucified on the cross next to Jesus, when Jesus said to him "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

The thief was promised paradise while he and Christ were both alive and living under the OT law. So the thief is an example of OT salvation and not NT salvation. So those that lived under the OT law will be judged by their deeds under that law while us today who live under the NT law will be judged by our deeds under the NT law.

Secondly, it may have been that the thief was once a disciple of Christ Mk 1:5 who later fell away into a life of crime then on his cross he is repentant for his sins and Christ forgave him. We are told from Mt 9:6 that while Christ was ON EARTH He had the power to forgive sins of those whom He thought was deserving, such as this thief. Yet Jesus has not been ON EARTH for some 2,000 years but He left behind His word, the bible as His authority on earth and His bible is the standard by which all men will be judged and His bible says men will be judged by their works/deeds.

 

[Robert Hern]

Jesus said this about His Words:

Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Not just Apostles. Man. Every....WORD.

s

what about the Jews from the past

 

[Mike S]

The thief was promised paradise while he and Christ were both alive and living under the OT law. So the thief is an example of OT salvation and not NT salvation.

Secondly, it may have been that the thief was once a disciple of Christ Mk 1:5 who later fell away into a life of crime then on his cross he is repentant for his sins and Christ forgave him. We are told from Mt 9:6 that while Christ was ON EARTH He had the power to forgive sins of those whom He thought was deserving, such as this thief. Yet Jesus has not been ON EARTH for some 2,000 years but He left behind His word, the bible as His authority on earth and His bible is the standard by which all men will be judged and His bible says men will be judged by their works/deeds.

He was saved by faith alone, just as you and I will be.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

He was saved by faith alone, just as you and I will be.

The bible does not say he was saved by faith alone.

From Rom 2:6-11 and 1 Pet 1:17 and 2 Cor 5:10 and Rev 20:12,13 each man will be judged according in to his works. So what do you do with these verses that say works are the basis as to where one will be in eternity?

 

[Knotical]

The bible does not say he was saved by faith alone.

From Rom 2:6-11 and 1 Pet 1:17 and 2 Cor 5:10 and Rev 20:12,13 each man will be judged according in to his works. So what do you do with theses verses that say works are the bases as to where one will be in eternity?

You are completely overlooking everything that Jesus taught while he was here on earth. I suggest reading through the gospels again.

 

[Robert Hern]

The bible does not say he was saved by faith alone.

Christians are saved by Grace

but some jews will also be save inspite of not knowing Christ
Jews beleive in works but for us it is grace

2 different salvations

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

You are completely overlooking everything that Jesus taught while he was here on earth. I suggest reading through the gospels again.

From Rom 2:6-11 and 1 Pet 1:17 and 2 Cor 5:10 and Rev 20:12,13 each man will be judged according in to his works.

I am making my argument straight from the above bible verses.

 

[Knotical]

From Rom 2:6-11 and 1 Pet 1:17 and 2 Cor 5:10 and Rev 20:12,13 each man will be judged according in to his works.

I am making my argument straight from the above bible verses.

You are missing the point of the gospel. We are no longer under the covenant of works since Jesus died on the Cross. He fulfilled that convenant in that act. We are saved by grace through faith. Any works that we may do is done as worship, praise, and thanksgiving to the Father for affording us Salvation through His Son.

 

[Mike S]

The bible does not say he was saved by faith alone.

From Rom 2:6-11 and 1 Pet 1:17 and 2 Cor 5:10 and Rev 20:12,13 each man will be judged according in to his works. So what do you do with theses verses that say works are the bases as to where one will be in eternity?

I refer to Paul's writing in Romans:

By his grace they are justified freely through the redemption that is in the Messiah Jesus,
whom God offered as a place where atonement by the Messiah’s blood would occur through faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because he had waited patiently to deal with sins committed in the past. He wanted to demonstrate at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies anyone who has the faithfulness of Jesus.
What, then, is there to boast about? That has been eliminated. On what principle? On that of actions? No, but on the principle of faith.
Fory we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the actions prescribed by the Law.


Righteous works are the fruits of salvation, not the necessary cause of salvation.

 

[Robert Hern]

God is Just the remnent (romans 11) will be saved but they still have their sins

remnent were not cleans by the blood of Christ

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Christians are saved by Grace

but some jews will also be save inspite of not knowing Christ
Jews beleive in works but for us it is grace

2 different salvations

Those saved will be saved by grace through faith. So salvation takes both grace and faith and not either one alone.

I do not agree that anyone can be saved witout knowing Christ, for Christ is THE way and there is NO other way to be saved.

There is just one way to be saved (through Christ) and not 2 or 3 or more ways to be saved.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

You are missing the point of the gospel. We are no longer under the covenant of works since Jesus died on the Cross. He fulfilled that convenant in that act. We are saved by grace through faith. Any works that we may do is done as worship, praise, and thanksgiving to the Father for affording us Salvation through His Son.

The gospel does not say we do not have to do any obedient works to be saved. Rather the gospel requires obedience to Christ in belieivng, Jn 3:16, repenting, Lk 13:3,5, confessing, Mt 10:32,33 and being baptized, Mk 16:16 to be saved.

 

[Robert Hern]

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:

 

[smaller]

The thief was promised paradise while he and Christ were both alive and living under the OT law. So the thief is an example of OT salvation and not NT salvation.

Where do you get the 'idea' that The Gospel has changed?

Christ Himself spoke in the Old Testament Law and Prophets and the nation and people of Israel had THE GOSPEL preached to them as well.

Hebrews 4:2
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

It is not called 'The Ever Lasting Gospel' for no cause:

Revelation 14:6
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel

Secondly, it may have been that the thief was once a disciple of Christ Mk 1:5 who later fell away into a life of crime then on his cross he is repentant for his sins and Christ forgave him.

Why would you even predicate any prior actions of the thief as being the basis for God's Own Forgiveness, speaking right there at the Cross?

God in Christ chose to forgive that man, right there on the spot via a few simple words from the thief. 'Remember me when you come into your Kingdom.'

DONE.

We are told from Mt 9:6 that while Christ was ON EARTH He had the power to forgive sins of those whom He thought was deserving,

Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son

such as this thief.

The thief himself knew he deserved death.

Yet Jesus has not been ON EARTH for some 2,000 years but He left behind His word, the bible as His authority on earth and His bible is the standard by which all men will be judged and His bible says men will be judged by their works/deeds.

Where do you get this stuff from? You think God IS held CAPTIVE to the INK in pages of A BOOK? What kind of nonsense is that?

Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

s