If we are completely cleansed of all sin, for which sin will you be Judged?

[Ernest T. Bass]

The more you write, the more you sound like a Pharisee spouting about the law. Things don't change much, do they?

I gave a book, chapter and verses that proves men will be judged by thier works. What more could I give?

 

[Eventide]

All men will certainly be judged by their works.. although no man will be justified, nor be saved by their works.

It's a matter of reward and the possibility of suffering loss.. although not losing salvation.

 

[Mike S]

I gave a book, chapter and verses that proves men will be judged by thier works. What more could I give?

What do you think the Pharisees did? They knew the law inside and out and could quote it, but they did not know the spirit behind the law. You know the chapters and verses, yet can't seem to understand the spirit of God's will.

 

[Butch5]

It's not only I who has the contradictions, you have them as well. You're free to interpret them any way you want, the scriptures are there for you to discern.

For me, I've come to understand that God remains sovereign, and He will save whom He will save, no matter what you think the scriptures say. I'm not going to believe that a man in prison who's spent a lifetime of sin cannot be justifed by God's grace if he submits genuinely and totally, falls to his knees, and cries out "Jesus save me!" Nor am I going to let the Greek writings of the New Testament become for us what the Hebrew writngs of the Old Testament were to the Pharisees: a new set of laws in which our obsession with nuance of the letter of the law becomes a way of losing the spirit of the writings, an understanding of the spirit of God's will.

How then do you determine what thruth is?

 

[Butch5]

I disagree. Those of us who are to close the evangelical Protestant theology believe that righteous works are the RESULT of salvation, EVIDENCE of salvation, the fruits of a transformed life. But, works can never be sufficient for salvation, we are justified by faith alone.

Works cannot be the result of salvation because without works faith is dead.

The only mention in Scripture of "faith alone" says a man is "Not" justified by faith alone.

 

[Butch5]

Jesus said this about His Words:

Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Not just Apostles. Man. Every....WORD.

s

I'm not sure how this bears on the issue. The words were spoken to the apostles.

 

[smaller]

I'm not sure how this bears on the issue. The words were spoken to the apostles.

I don't see 'Apostles only' in His Statement of fact.

 

[Butch5]

I don't see 'Apostles only' in His Statement of fact.

It's in the text.

 

[Mike S]

How then do you determine what thruth is?

By reading the Bible in it's entirety, finding the themes that run throughout.

If you pick and choose specific scriptures and concentrate on just those, you can come away with completely opposite opinions, even on what is necessary for salvation. For instance, verses from the Synoptic Gospels and the Book of James, taken by themselves, can leave you with the understanding that works are the ONLY basis for salvation:

James 2:24: “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

Matthew 16:27: ”For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”


But scriptures from the Gospel of John and the writings of Paul, taken by themselves, can leave you with the understanding that faith ALONE is the basis of salvation:

John 3:15-16: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."


By reading the Bible in it's entirety, I've come to the understanding that the truth is faith and works are both a part of God's plan, that faith alone can bring salvation, but works alone cannot. Works are the inevitable follow on of salvation, the evidence of salvation, the fruits of a life transformed in Christ.

 

[smaller]

It's in the text.

lol. He was addressing Satan in that discourse and the Words are also from the Old Testament.

Apostles only. Quite funny.

 

[farouk]

By reading the Bible in it's entirety, finding the themes that run throughout.

If you pick and choose specific scriptures and concentrate on just those, you can come away with completely opposite opinions, even on what is necessary for salvation. For instance, verses from the Synoptic Gospels and the Book of James, taken by themselves, can leave you with the understanding that works are the ONLY basis for salvation:

James 2:24: “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

Matthew 16:27: ”For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”




But scriptures from the Gospel of John and the writings of Paul, taken by themselves, can leave you with the understanding that faith ALONE is the basis of salvation:

John 3:15-16: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."






By reading the Bible in it's entirety, I've come to the understanding that the truth is faith and works are both a part of God's plan, that faith alone can bring salvation, but works alone cannot. Works are the inevitable follow on of salvation, the evidence of salvation, the fruits of a life transformed in Christ.

mark:

Re. last para., good way of summing it up.

Blessings.

 

[Blev]

You will be saved or lost on the basis of whether or not you received Jesus as the Lord of your Life.

1 John 5:11And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life. 13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 John 5:20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

John 3:36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

 

[savedbygrace57]

...and it takes obedient works to be in Christ Jesus.

Thats a false witness ! What scripture states that it takes obeient works to be in Christ ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Those whom Christ died for, have no sin to be condemned for, they in the first place were never imputed to them, that is God never charged them legally with their sins 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[Robert Hern]

Grace or Works
The Jews were under the law of works
The Gentiles under the law of Faith not works
Romans 3
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.[n] 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law.
Romans 11
Romans 11
Israel’s Rejection Not Total
1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”?[a] 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.[c] But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

 

[Robert Hern]

Grace or Works
The Jews were under the law of works
The Gentiles under the law of Faith not works
Romans 3
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.[n] 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law.
Romans 11
Romans 11
Israel’s Rejection Not Total
1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”?[a] 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.[c] But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

if a remnent of under the Law Jews are saved by Grace
they still carry thier sin for it is not salvation by the blood of Christ but by Grace of God
Jews , a remnent are brought to thier fullness romans 11:12
12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

 

[Butch5]

By reading the Bible in it's entirety, finding the themes that run throughout.

If you pick and choose specific scriptures and concentrate on just those, you can come away with completely opposite opinions, even on what is necessary for salvation. For instance, verses from the Synoptic Gospels and the Book of James, taken by themselves, can leave you with the understanding that works are the ONLY basis for salvation:

James 2:24: “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.â€

Matthew 16:27: â€For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.â€


But scriptures from the Gospel of John and the writings of Paul, taken by themselves, can leave you with the understanding that faith ALONE is the basis of salvation:

John 3:15-16: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."


By reading the Bible in it's entirety, I've come to the understanding that the truth is faith and works are both a part of God's plan, that faith alone can bring salvation, but works alone cannot. Works are the inevitable follow on of salvation, the evidence of salvation, the fruits of a life transformed in Christ.

I agree that we must take the entire Bible, however, works cannot be the evidence of faith. Without works faith is dead and can do nothing. Works give life to faith.

 

[Butch5]

lol. He was addressing Satan in that discourse and the Words are also from the Old Testament.

Apostles only. Quite funny.

Here's the original post. I don't think He was addressing Satan.

Originally Posted by Robert Hern
John 15
3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4 Abide in Me, and I in you

Butch5---Jesus was speaking to the apostles here.

Surely you wouldn't suggest that Satan is clean and abides in Christ.



​

 

[smaller]

Here's the original post. I don't think He was addressing Satan.

Uh, yes, that is exactly the encounter where those Words were spoken.

Surely you wouldn't suggest that Satan is clean and abides in Christ.

Where in the world did you get that idea from?

Your initial statement was that these Words were only to Apostles:

John 15:3
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

I pointed to the fact of Luke 4:4 that 'all' of Gods Words are applicable to MAN, not just those to whom same were spoken to, as many often try to claim.

s

 

[DiscipleDave]

If we are completely cleansed of all sin,
for which sin will you be Judged?

i will tell you what God told me, when i asked Him this very question.

All sins that you commit are completely cleansed at the time you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord, He pays the penalty of your sins, by being beaten, spit upon, crucified and all that He went through. At the time of you accepting Jesus Christ all your sins that are PAST are forgiven:

Romans3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that arepast, through the forbearance of God;

Jesus does this for you once. He is not crucified every time you commit a sin after you have accepted Him, He does this for you once, at the time of your accepting Him. He pays for your sins up to the point of your accepting Him as your Savior and Lord, He forgives all your sins that are past, and casts them into the sea of forgetfulness, never to remember them again. However, after you have accepted Him as your Savior and Lord, all sins that you knowingly and willingly commit, these are they that will be judged. And every person will reap what they have sown. In other words, before you got Saved, all sins that you committed, Jesus took the punishment for them, He paid for them. But after you are Saved, you will pay for them, you will reap what you have sown, period.

Romans2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Galations6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

And even if you Truly repent of a particular sin, and He has forgiven you of that sin, and that sin will not be Judged against you, if you have Truly repented of that sin, (that is to say you cease from it), YOU will still suffer the consequences of your actions, you will still reap what you have sown. Many, and i say many, will fall away from the Faith when Tribulations begins, because that is when they will reap from all their sinning in the past.
Jesus suffered for all those sins that you committed before you got Saved, He took the punishment for you. Sins that you commit AFTER He has forgiven you and washed you clean, is on you to suffer for (reaping what you yourself have sown). Jesus does not suffer for your sins more then the ONCE, when you accepted Him as your Savior and Lord, After He has cleansed you, and you go about to dirty yourself up again that is on you, not Him.

Also see and understand Matthew25:31-46 believe it or not, the sheep and the goats BOTH are Christians, they both call Him "Lord"

Prophesy: Many will fall away from the faith, when they start reaping what they have sown from all the sins they have committed after they accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. He does not bear the sword in vain, And nobody will escape the Word of God which plainly teaches you will reap what you have sown. When people start to reap what they themselves have sown, is when they will fall away from the Faith, praying " Why have you done this to me?" All the while the anti-christ is saying on TV "Where is your God now?" because of all the destruction upon the earth, And it is come to the Earth, because of the evil therein, it is time for ALL to reap what they have sown.

^i^