If we are completely cleansed of all sin, for which sin will you be Judged?

[Knotical]

The gospel does not say we do not have to do any obedient works to be saved. Rather the gospel requires obedience to Christ in belieivng, Jn 3:16, repenting, Lk 13:3,5, confessing, Mt 10:32,33 and being baptized, Mk 16:16 to be saved.

Those are not works. Works has to do with adhering to the Law, the Ten Commandments.

 

[Robert Hern]

romans 11
1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I refer to Paul's writing in Romans:

By his grace they are justified freely through the redemption that is in the Messiah Jesus,
whom God offered as a place where atonement by the Messiah’s blood would occur through faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because he had waited patiently to deal with sins committed in the past. He wanted to demonstrate at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies anyone who has the faithfulness of Jesus.
What, then, is there to boast about? That has been eliminated. On what principle? On that of actions? No, but on the principle of faith.
Fory we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the actions prescribed by the Law.


Righteous works are the fruits of salvation, not the necessary cause of salvation.

If what you say above is true, then how do you explain away Rom 2:6-11 and 1 Pet 1:17 and 2 Cor 5:10 and Rev 20:12,13 that says each man will be judged according in to his works? You have a contradiction on your hands now.

Yet Rom 3:24 says "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"

That phrase "in Christ" is a phrase Paul used a lot. Redemption/salvation is only found IN CHRIST. So the important question is how does one get in Christ? Not a single verse says faith only puts one in Christ, but it takes obedience in submitting to baptism, Gal 3:27, Rom 6:3-5 to be IN CHRIST. So those that obediently submit to being baptized will have thier sins remitted and will be judged by their good obedient righteous work in submitting to baptism for their evil, unrighteous, sinful works have been remitted, washed away in baptism and by dong the continued work of "walking in the light" 1 jn 1:7 their sins are continually washed away.

 

[Robert Hern]

Those saved will be saved by grace through faith. So salvation takes both grace and faith and not either one alone.

I do not agree that anyone can be saved witout knowing Christ, for Christ is THE way and there is NO other way to be saved.

There is just one way to be saved (through Christ) and not 2 or 3 or more ways to be saved.

romans 11
1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

God is Just the remnent (romans 11) will be saved but they still have their sins

remnent were not cleans by the blood of Christ

The remnant of fleshly Israel that was saved was those Jews in Acts 2 who obeyed Peter's words of Acts 2:38, by repenting and being baptized and had their sins remitted/cleansed by Christ's blood.

The rest of fleshly Israel were lost for in Rom 10:1 Paul's prayer was they might be saved and in Rom 10:3 they could only be saved by "submitting to the righteousness (commandments) of God" by believing in the heart and confessing with the mouth, Rom 10:9,10

 

[Robert Hern]

these are Jews from the past

romans 11
1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:

In Rom 11 here Paul is talking about spiritual Israel which is the church and not fleshly Israel. If just one person could be saved apart from Christ then Chrsit wasted His time in coming to earth and dying on the cross.

 

[smaller]

what about the Jews from the past

Romans 2:15
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience

Romans 10:8
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

 

[Mike S]

If what you say above is true, then how do you explain away Rom 2:6-11 and 1 Pet 1:17 and 2 Cor 5:10 and Rev 20:12,13 that says each man will be judged according in to his works? You have a contradiction on your hands now.

Yet Rom 3:24 says "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"

That phrase "in Christ" is a phrase Paul used a lot. Redemption/salvation is only found IN CHRIST. So the important question is how does one get in Christ? Not a single verse says faith only puts one in Christ, but it takes obedience in submitting to baptism, Gal 3:27, Rom 6:3-5 to be IN CHRIST. So those that obediently submit to being baptized will have thier sins remitted and will be judged by their good obedient righteous work in submitting to baptism for their evil, unrighteous, sinful works have been remitted, washed away in baptism and by dong the continued work of "walking in the light" 1 jn 1:7 their sins are continually washed away.

It's not only I who has the contradictions, you have them as well. You're free to interpret them any way you want, the scriptures are there for you to discern.

For me, I've come to understand that God remains sovereign, and He will save whom He will save, no matter what you think the scriptures say. I'm not going to believe that a man in prison who's spent a lifetime of sin cannot be justifed by God's grace if he submits genuinely and totally, falls to his knees, and cries out "Jesus save me!" Nor am I going to let the Greek writings of the New Testament become for us what the Hebrew writngs of the Old Testament were to the Pharisees: a new set of laws in which our obsession with nuance of the letter of the law becomes a way of losing the spirit of the writings, an understanding of the spirit of God's will.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Where do you get the 'idea' that The Gospel has changed?

Christ Himself spoke in the Old Testament Law and Prophets and the nation and people of Israel had THE GOSPEL preached to them as well.

Hebrews 4:2
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

It is not called 'The Ever Lasting Gospel' for no cause:

Revelation 14:6
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel


Why would you even predicate any prior actions of the thief as being the basisfor God's Own Forgiveness, speaking right there at the Cross?

God in Christ chose to forgive that man, right there on the spot via a few simple words from the thief. 'Remember me when you come into your Kingdom.'

DONE.

Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son

The thief himself knew he deserved death.

Where do you get this stuff from? You think God IS held CAPTIVE to the INK in pages of A BOOK? What kind of nonsense is that?

Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

s

The thief did not live under the gospel. Again, he and Christ were both alive and under the OT law when Christ promised him paradise so he is not an example of NT salvation. In ROm 10:9,10 the NT requires one to "believe in thine heart that God hath raised (past tense) him from the dead". At the time the thief was promised paradise, Christ had not died much less been resurrected so the thief could not have the type of belief the NT requires.

It could have been that the thief was once a disciple of Christ who fell away then was repentant of his sins and Chrsit forgave him. There is no "faith only" in this scenario.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Those are not works. Works has to do with adhering to the Law, the Ten Commandments.

Belief, repentance, confessing and submitting to water baptism are obedient works and not just some mental assent of the mind.

And is by a man's works/deeds he will be judged on judgment day.

 

[Knotical]

Belief, repentance, confessing and submitting to water baptism are obedient works and not just some mental assent of the mind.

And is by a man's works/deeds he will be judged on judgment day.

Completely wrong, but nice try. Those are not "works".

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

romans 11
1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.

Again, in Rom 11:1 the Israel in this verse is spiritual Isarel which is the church and not fleshly Israel. For a few verses later in Rom 11:16-24 fleshly had been cut off and rejected by God.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

It's not only I who has the contradictions, you have them as well. You're free to interpret them any way you want, the scriptures are there for you to discern.

For me, I've come to understand that God remains sovereign, and He will save whom He will save, no matter what you think the scriptures say. I'm not going to believe that a man in prison who's spent a lifetime of sin cannot be justifed by God's grace if he submits genuinely and totally, falls to his knees, and cries out "Jesus save me!" Nor am I going to let the Greek writings of the New Testament become for us what the Hebrew writngs of the Old Testament were to the Pharisees: a new set of laws in which our obsession with nuance of the letter of the law becomes a way of losing the spirit of the writings, an understanding of the spirit of God's will.

I have said what the bible says that each man will be judged according to his works whether those works be good or bad, obedient or disobedient. THe man made idea of "faith only" contradicts this by trying to say a man will NOT be judged by his works but will be judged if he had faith only or not.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Completely wrong, but nice try. Those are not "works".

Yse they are works, they are something done, deeds and not just mere thoughts of the mind.

 

[savedbygrace57]

If we are completely cleansed of all sin, for which sin will you be
Judged?

None ! There is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus !

 

[smaller]

The thief did not live under the gospel.

Every man lives under their conscience of good and evil. This understanding is put in every mans heart by our Creator.

The Gospel is no different.

Again, he and Christ were both alive and under the OT law

The entirety of the Gospel was taken directly from Old Testament Law and Prophets. The notion that the N.T. is somehow 'delinked' is not true.

Jesus Himself TAUGHT out of the OLD TESTAMENT post resurrection.

There are many that seek to divide The Words of Christ in the O.T. from the N.T. They are all the Words of God in Christ.

when Christ promised him paradise so he is not an example of NT salvation.

Why? Only because it doesn't suit some formulamatic salvation you think exists?

In ROm 10:9,10 the NT requires one to "believe in thine heart

Obviously that man spoke in that manner directly to God in Christ.

that God hath raised (past tense) him from the dead". At the time of the thief was promised paradise Christ had not died much less been resurrected so the thief could not have the type of belief the NT requires.

There is no 'so' that exists except in your own head.

It could have been that the thief was once a disciple of Christ who fell away then was repentant of his sins and Chrsit forgave him. There is no "faith only" in this scenario.

Again, a complete imagination on your part. There is ZERO indication of that matter anywhere in text.

s

 

[Mike S]

I have said what the bible says that each man will be judged according to his works whether those works be good or bad, obedient or disobedient. THe man made idea of "faith only" contradicts this by trying to say a man will NOT be judged by his works but will be judged if he had faith only or not.

The more you write, the more you sound like a Pharisee spouting about the law. Things don't change much, do they?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

None ! There is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus !

...and it takes obedient works to be in Christ Jesus.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Every man lives under their conscience of good and evil. This understanding is put in every mans heart by our Creator.

The Gospel is no different.



The entirety of the Gospel was taken directly from Old Testament Law and Prophets. The notion that the N.T. is somehow 'delinked' is not true.

Jesus Himself TAUGHT out of the OLD TESTAMENT post resurrection.

There are many that seek to divide The Words of Christ in the O.T. from the N.T. They are all the Words of God in Christ.



Why? Only because it doesn't suit some formulamatic salvation you think exists?



Obviously that man spoke in that manner directly to God in Christ.



There is no 'so' that exists except in your own head.



Again, a complete imagination on your part. There is ZERO indication of that matter anywhere in text.

s

You have not offered any biblical proof the thief was under the NT gospel. Again, the thief could not have the type of belief the NT requires in Rom 10:9,10. Furthermore from Heb 9:16-17 Christ's NT would only come into effect AFTER He died and He was not yet dead when He promised paradise to the thief.

You have provided no evidence that the thief was never a disciple. THe truth is the bible does not say if the thief was ever a disciple of Christ or not, so the thief is a mute point when it comes to NT salvation. One can look to Acts 2:38 to see what the NT gospel says about how men are to be saved.