Important question

[Bob47379]

I'm debating my faith because of the existence of hell if God was all seeing all powerful and all knowing why would he allow some people to never become Christians by that logic he knew they would go to hell but made them anyway and what about people who live in extreme poverty and never even hear about Christianity in their life do they also go to he'll forever this feels like a massive plot hole also im not looking to start a argument just a genuine question

 

[Exeter]

Well. We are sort of trying to give answers.

The Original Poster joined the forum, made his one post, checked in the next day and hasn't been back. We do our best but there will always be "flitters" who are here today and gone tomorrow.

 

[D-D-W]

As they say in my part of the world , " Your pulling my leg ! "

I wish i were. They taught some other strange things too; like losing your salvation at every sin no matter how minor, or even if you were aware of it. Having any source of alcohol in the house was a sin and about half of the sermons were on the hidden sources of alcohol like mouthwash or vanilla extract.

 

[D-D-W]

The Original Poster joined the forum, made his one post, checked in the next day and hasn't been back. We do our best but there will always be "flitters" who are here today and gone tomorrow.

On another forum years ago we called them "drive by posters."

 

[Dorothy Mae]

First, God doesn’t make every human being after he made the first two. It helps to understand what God does and what He is not actively doing. An elementary course in mammal reproduction shows us that God set up life to reproduce after it’s kind. He isn’t making every seed that becomes a mature life form. We do that on our own.

Second, God knowing does not mean God is therefore responsible for the outcome. If I see a baseball fly towards the garage window, I know it will break the glass (childhood memory) but knowing the fragility of glass doesn’t make me responsible simply by my understanding of glass. It takes more than my foreknowledge of glass vs baseball to make me responsible.

 

[D-D-W]

Second, God knowing does not mean God is therefore responsible for the outcome. If I see a baseball fly towards the garage window, I know it will break the glass (childhood memory) but knowing the fragility of glass doesn’t make me responsible simply by my understanding of glass. It takes more than my foreknowledge of glass vs baseball to make me responsible.

But if you have the power to change the flight path, or the fragility of the glass, and you decide to do neither; does that make you responsible?

 

[Edward]

But if you have the power to change the flight path, or the fragility of the glass, and you decide to do neither; does that make you responsible?

How could it?

 

[D-D-W]

How could it?

Because you had the ability to avoid a situation, but did not do it.

 

[christian1724]

I'm debating my faith because of the existence of hell if God was all seeing all powerful and all knowing why would he allow some people to never become Christians by that logic he knew they would go to hell but made them anyway and what about people who live in extreme poverty and never even hear about Christianity in their life do they also go to he'll forever this feels like a massive plot hole also im not looking to start a argument just a genuine question

I want to address this on an adult level, but at the same time don't wish to offend you.

I don't think this is uncommon with younger people. By their age alone, they are somewhat restricted by how long and how deeply they have been able to develop and consider their position/worldview and beliefs. This is especially so in these days of (post?) modern education.

Unfortunately, it will not erase the existence of God should you decide that you no longer have 'faith' (I think you meant belief) in Him. Hell, by whatever guidelines you imagine it, will probably continue to exist without your approval as well.

If He exists then you have a logic problem in that an eternal all-aware God, who to some extent exists within you, is as evil/unworthy as you have judged Him to be.

If there is no God then you have a logic problem. Namely, how did absolute 'nothingness' explode into the modern day Bob47379 who doesn't believe in a spiritual world while he yet poses questions to the 'other' chemically existent individuals who surround him? I mean, either these individuals are spirit beings or they are just chemically induced illusions.

Is it possible that one or some of your current premises/propositions is not reasonable or rational? Just a question.

It would be nice to be updated on your progress if you get the time. I'll try to monitor this thread occasionally because I am curious about your journey.

Seek Truth Friend, it's the only thing that is reliable. (and don't forget punctuation marks! sometimes it changes the sentences)

 

[Dorothy Mae]

But if you have the power to change the flight path, or the fragility of the glass, and you decide to do neither; does that make you responsible?

No. No man nor is God responsible for righting all wrongs as they happen. There are such outcomes as consequences, good and disfavorable.

 

[eddif]

No. No man nor is God responsible for righting all wrongs as they happen. There are such outcomes as consequences, good and disfavorable.

I really think D-D-W said if. We understand not to lay hands on suddenly.
I do think he was saying if scripture has put an action in our power and responsibility, we are to carry out our responsibility.

Meddling redneck.
eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I really think D-D-W said if. We understand not to lay hands on suddenly.
I do think he was saying if scripture has put an action in our power and responsibility, we are to carry out our responsibility.

Meddling redneck.
eddif

Stopping a baseball from racing towards a glass window doesn’t qualify.

God himself doesn’t prevent all evil by using his raw power. We are to be like Him.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Because you had the ability to avoid a situation, but did not do it.

What if forcing people to do good is itself worse?

 

[eddif]

Stopping a baseball from racing towards a glass window doesn’t qualify.

God himself doesn’t prevent all evil by using his raw power. We are to be like Him.

I actually saw a parent neglecting to instruct a child in the safe places to play baseball. That stops the baseball from heading toward a window.

A child not following instructions about where to play baseball.
That increases the chance of a glas being broken. Or helps stop a ball from hitting a window.

I did not even think about speaking to a baseball. Reflex actions protect our eyes.

But Jesus did speak to a storm.

eddif

 

[GodsGrace]

I actually saw a parent neglecting to instruct a child in the safe places to play baseball. That stops the baseball from heading toward a window.

A child not following instructions about where to play baseball.
That increases the chance of a glas being broken. Or helps stop a ball from hitting a window.

I did not even think about speaking to a baseball. Reflex actions protect our eyes.

But Jesus did speak to a storm.

eddif

This is also for Dorothy Mae and D-D-W and Edward .

I've battled with this question myself...the one about why God doesn't stop the baseball.
Darn those baseballs !

I've learned to believe that God is a loving God and an all-powerful God..so what's the answer?
For me it's this...

Simple. Seems like the simple answers are always the best.
God set up the earth and its system. It's in Genesis.
He made things to work in a particular way.
This is why math works and physics and every other science.

He will not interrupt that system and the procedures at every twist and turn.
When He does interrupt something natural (answering to nature's rules) we call that a miracle.
Miracles don't happen every split second --
Only at times.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I actually saw a parent neglecting to instruct a child in the safe places to play baseball. That stops the baseball from heading toward a window.

A child not following instructions about where to play baseball.
That increases the chance of a glas being broken. Or helps stop a ball from hitting a window.

I did not even think about speaking to a baseball. Reflex actions protect our eyes.

But Jesus did speak to a storm.

eddif

Jesus spoke to a storm when their lives were in danger.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus spoke to a storm when their lives were in danger.

Right.
Jesus said many things.
We just need to listen and maybe stop expecting Him to stop everything unpleasant.

Maybe we need to come to terms with our faith before anything unpleasant happens so we're ready for it and can deal with it instead of losing faith over it - as some do.

Romans 8:28 comes to mind.

Also, Jesus said He has overcome the world - what does that mean anyway?
John 16:33
These things I have spoken to you so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Right.
Jesus said many things.
We just need to listen and maybe stop expecting Him to stop everything unpleasant.

Maybe we need to come to terms with our faith before anything unpleasant happens so we're ready for it and can deal with it instead of losing faith over it - as some do.

Romans 8:28 comes to mind.

Also, Jesus said He has overcome the world - what does that mean anyway?
John 16:33
These things I have spoken to you so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”

What does “come to terms with our faith” mean exactly? How does one do this?

 

[GodsGrace]

What does “come to terms with our faith” mean exactly? How does one do this?

It means what we were discussing here...
Things about our faith that we don't understand and will never understand.

One of those things is the problem of evil.
The one question that has no answer and yet is the most asked question to priests and probably pastors as well.
Why Does God Allow Evil?
And by evil t hey don't mean evil persons...they mean sickness, natural disasters, and the such.
Some evil is caused by we humans and bring it upon ourselves...but not all.
We don't cause a hurricane.

If we don't understand some principle we could come to live with and wait for some disaster to befall us, we will feel lost and might even lose faith. Everything is fine and we can praise God when things are going well for us...but can we praise Him when something bad happens? Why do bad things happen to people anyway?

We go about reaching our understanding by reading and learning and having trust in God.
We should do this BEFORE something bad happens...although some persons come to faith AFTER the bad happens and in looking for strength; but it's usually the other way around.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It means what we were discussing here...
Things about our faith that we don't understand and will never understand.

One of those things is the problem of evil.
The one question that has no answer and yet is the most asked question to priests and probably pastors as well.
Why Does God Allow Evil?
And by evil t hey don't mean evil persons...they mean sickness, natural disasters, and the such.
Some evil is caused by we humans and bring it upon ourselves...but not all.
We don't cause a hurricane.

If we don't understand some principle we could come to live with and wait for some disaster to befall us, we will feel lost and might even lose faith. Everything is fine and we can praise God when things are going well for us...but can we praise Him when something bad happens? Why do bad things happen to people anyway?

We go about reaching our understanding by reading and learning and having trust in God.
We should do this BEFORE something bad happens...although some persons come to faith AFTER the bad happens and in looking for strength; but it's usually the other way around.

I know people who lost their faith because they experienced both misfortune or others doing wrong to them. Your point is correct. I, myself, for a time told God I didn’t want to walk with Him anymore because of a serious illness that befell me.

This is a whole discussion by itself, but a few items are worth noting. One, evil and unpleasant happenings ought to be distinguished in the mind. This helps. People do evil and misfortune happens.

Second, you are right in that if one deals with these matters mentally and one learns how to respond before great challenges occur, one’s faith can survive. In biblical terms, one can stand in the “evil day” where opposition is blatant.

You are incorrect in assuming we cannot understand and never will. We can come to understand but it requires something on our part which can be simple or complex and that we walk humbly with God. Means we seek Him for understanding. (If any man lack wisdom let him ask of God who gives generously.) In my case, I had wrong theology, that is, thinking incorrectly about God’s part in human affairs. That got corrected.

So I agree, how we walk in easy times will affect our ability to stand in difficult days.

 

[GodsGrace]

I know people who lost their faith because they experienced both misfortune or others doing wrong to them. Your point is correct. I, myself, for a time told God I didn’t want to walk with Him anymore because of a serious illness that befell me.

This is a whole discussion by itself, but a few items are worth noting. One, evil and unpleasant happenings ought to be distinguished in the mind. This helps. People do evil and misfortune happens.

Second, you are right in that if one deals with these matters mentally and one learns how to respond before great challenges occur, one’s faith can survive. In biblical terms, one can stand in the “evil day” where opposition is blatant.

You are incorrect in assuming we cannot understand and never will. We can come to understand but it requires something on our part which can be simple or complex and that we walk humbly with God. Means we seek Him for understanding. (If any man lack wisdom let him ask of God who gives generously.) In my case, I had wrong theology, that is, thinking incorrectly about God’s part in human affairs. That got corrected.

So I agree, how we walk in easy times will affect our ability to stand in difficult days.

Two questions for you DM, you don't have to answer personally, generally will do.

1. What IS God's part in human affairs?

2. You believe we could understand everything about God and His "realm"?