Important question

[Bob47379]

I'm debating my faith because of the existence of hell if God was all seeing all powerful and all knowing why would he allow some people to never become Christians by that logic he knew they would go to hell but made them anyway and what about people who live in extreme poverty and never even hear about Christianity in their life do they also go to he'll forever this feels like a massive plot hole also im not looking to start a argument just a genuine question

 

[eddif]

E,
Randy is addressing the concept of Calvinism.
Your reply doesn't address that so I just hope he'll respond.

I like the upgrade too, but it has to be OUR wish to be upgraded...
agreed?

We are in General discussions
Evil in the world
Do you want to discuss Total Depravity?

When it existed
What was done to help the situation
How that relates to today.

Hey I ain’t looking for no fancy words, just keep it redneck stupid. (KIRS) not (KISS)

I looked at the safe zone but I did not feel safe.

Thanks

eddif

 

[eddif]

Gods desire was evident. As was mans choices.
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

"The owner's servants came to him and said, `Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
"`An enemy did this,' he replied.

Ok
So Jerusalem was bad. What and how many times has something been done about Jerusalem?

Where are the better guys of Ezekiel? What defines better guys?
What happened to the better guys that started the one new man?

Randy your comments have helped the understanding of the one new man.

Can you define the one new man?
Joy.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Just call yourself a follower of Christ. “Christian” can mean “hypocrite” to some apparently, one who says the words but whose life says the opposite.

Why wear a label man invented?

1 Corinthians 1:12 kjv
12. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14. I thank God that I baptized none of you, but and Gaius;

17. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

It is not about our name or our association with others, but about the good news of Jesus.

Modern man is still trying to find a unique definition / name.from the past or present. The good news is Jesus died for our sins, and became a quickening spirit that can be in us.

eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You know sometimes we are just too narrow minded. According to my mother in law; so my wife tells me.
If we had to spend a year in each major Christian group we might be a little better off.

Might be good.

I like the letters to the churches in Revelation. Good and bad is pointed out. Also, Job’s friends ar a good source of error and Job and God are sources of good answers.

eddif

Me too!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

1 Corinthians 1:12 kjv
12. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14. I thank God that I baptized none of you, but and Gaius;

17. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

It is not about our name or our association with others, but about the good news of Jesus.

Amen!!

Modern man is still trying to find a unique definition / name.from the past or present. The good news is Jesus died for our sins, and became a quickening spirit that can be in us.

eddif

The answer is what God tells you that you are.

 

[Randy]

Ok
So Jerusalem was bad. What and how many times has something been done about Jerusalem?

Where are the better guys of Ezekiel? What defines better guys?
What happened to the better guys that started the one new man?

Randy your comments have helped the understanding of the one new man.

Can you define the one new man?
Joy.

eddif

How are you addressing the OP? Better guys? All have sinned and fall short of God. One new man, are you speaking of the new creation? Christ in us.

The question relates to why does God allow some people not to become Christians in light of Hell?
Gods love and grace and good will towards man in reconciling us to Himself through Christ is self evident. How He chose to forgive our sins and the new creation wasn't the OP.

God allows free will. People, apart from Gods will, choose their own path. Life or death. The gospel is very clear on the wrath of God in regard to those who continue to sin after coming to the knowledge of the truth.

God allows choice.
As in "Choose whom you will serve."

Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!

 

[eddif]

Gods desire was evident. As was mans choices.
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

"The owner's servants came to him and said, `Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
"`An enemy did this,' he replied.

I am still trying to unwind your statement.
John 1 :13 kjv
13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Which is what I tend toward.

I often hear what man does, did, or should do, and I shiver. When I hear Paul refer to his flesh as wretched man I agree. My wife tells me you are just using that as an excuse to sin. I hear her statement.

Job had his wife say (curse God and die). Job responded (you speak as one of the foolish women).

Job 2:9 kjv
9. Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
10. But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

eddif

 

[eddif]

I posted #67 before I read #66

Now I know some of the issues.
Thanks for being open Randy

eddif

 

[eddif]

How are you addressing the OP? Better guys? All have sinned and fall short of God.

From OP “ never even hear about Christianity in their life do they also go to he'll forever”

Romans 1:20 kjv
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Everyone who sees creation is guilty of having revelation of God and can cry out for knowledge. Adam and Eve could have asked for advice about the serpents advice.

Human anatomy has an immune system. That in itself says there is an enemy somewhere. There are good and bad bacteria in us. Our very existence is tied to the better ones. They all are bacteria, but some are better than others.

Ezekiel 9:4 kjv
4. And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

All people in Jerusalem sinned, but the ones that were grieved over sin were removed from death by a mark. Those people were removed to other nations for protection.

I realize these are types and shadows of things to come.

Luke 12:48 kjv
48. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

The concept of lesser punishment is right in the Bible with all have sinned. King David saw his punishment for his sin. The ungodly around him were sleek and fat and had no problems, but suddenly they would be gone without confessing sins.

That is a start. More later?

eddif

 

[Randy]

From OP “ never even hear about Christianity in their life do they also go to he'll forever”

Romans 1:20 kjv
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Everyone who sees creation is guilty of having revelation of God and can cry out for knowledge. Adam and Eve could have asked for advice about the serpents advice.

Human anatomy has an immune system. That in itself says there is an enemy somewhere. There are good and bad bacteria in us. Our very existence is tied to the better ones. They all are bacteria, but some are better than others.

Ezekiel 9:4 kjv
4. And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

All people in Jerusalem sinned, but the ones that were grieved over sin were removed from death by a mark. Those people were removed to other nations for protection.

I realize these are types and shadows of things to come.

Luke 12:48 kjv
48. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

The concept of lesser punishment is right in the Bible with all have sinned. King David saw his punishment for his sin. The ungodly around him were sleek and fat and had no problems, but suddenly they would be gone without confessing sins.

That is a start. More later?

eddif

I have never met anyone who hasn't heard of Christ.

But I would state they are neither saved nor condemned. That they would come before the one who judges and Jesus would make a judgment concerning them and would add nothing is hidden from Him.

 

[Randy]

Death and life are the only two judgments I know of. So if a judgement is more bearable it must mean life. Because Jesus knew Tyre and Sidon would have repented if they had the opportunity the Israelites had that was found in their favor. Oh the mercy and love of a just God!

Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.

Jesus the judge-If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin;

With light comes accountability
“Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

 

[eddif]

How He chose to forgive our sins and the new creation wasn't the OP.

If the answer to the question includes who, when where, why etc.
Why are not all areas relevant,

The answer in the OT may be hidden in creation or the law, and cryptic reading the prophets, or private when told to the disciples, and even revelation when revealed to the NT authors. The same concept does not have to look the same in all contexts.

The seed is - the Word of God
The ground is - mens hearts

The word became flesh (Jesus)
The second Adam (Jesus) became a quickening spirit,
The quickening spirit In us becomes something He desires.

Simple? Romans 1;20
Understood?

eddif

 

[eddif]

I have never met anyone who hasn't heard of Christ.

But I would state they are neither saved nor condemned. That they would come before the one who judges and Jesus would make a judgment concerning them and would add nothing is hidden from Him.

Does Godhead mean Father, Son, Holy Spirit?
John 3:18 kjv
18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Church tradition, Jewish traditions even possibly eddif traditions can sometimes be off.

eddif

 

[Randy]

Does Godhead mean Father, Son, Holy Spirit?
John 3:18 kjv
18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Church tradition, Jewish traditions even possibly eddif traditions can sometimes be off.

eddif

The people Jesus spoke to believed in God they didn't believe in Him.
As He told His disciples
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me.

And the "knowing" is both He and the Father
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

 

[Randy]

If the answer to the question includes who, when where, why etc.
Why are not all areas relevant,

The answer in the OT may be hidden in creation or the law, and cryptic reading the prophets, or private when told to the disciples, and even revelation when revealed to the NT authors. The same concept does not have to look the same in all contexts.

The seed is - the Word of God
The ground is - mens hearts

The word became flesh (Jesus)
The second Adam (Jesus) became a quickening spirit,
The quickening spirit In us becomes something He desires.

Simple? Romans 1;20
Understood?

eddif

The fault found is in the hearts of the people not God.
Understand?

 

[eddif]

One new man, are you speaking of the new creation? Christ in us.

Ephesians 2:11 kjv
11.Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13. But now in Christ Jesus you, the onesonce being far off, have become near by the blood of Christ.
14. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, somaking peace;

The Jew and gentile have become one new man.

eddif

 

[Vinny37]

Too big a Q for a definitive A, even if I knew it. It’s one I’ve puzzled over for decades. Incidentally God doesn’t create human beings—that’s a job for parents, but he did create the first cell (see Perry Marshall’s Evolution 2.0) which was fruitful and multiplied in diversity. IMO resolution is along these broad lines.

Somehow some are conceived with a preference against God, and most with a preference for God. That preference will carry over into the postmortem life. Those who prefer not to be with God, will find hell, for God will honour their choice. C S Lewis (in Problem of Pain) sided with teachers of the past who argued that what is intolerable to heaven is tolerable in hell—not a literal burning and gnashing of teeth, but a broad unhappiness which the joy of heaven could not tolerate. Richard Adam’s Shardik explores that idea.

As to evangelism, those predisposed towards God will be potentially open to it: some will accept it; some will reject it. Rejection will not affect them postmortem, but they will miss out in mortal life (literally there is hell on earth: Adam died—was cut off—the day he rebelled). Orpah missed out on salvation into Sinai (Ruth 1:14); Ruth did not (v17): both might meet again in heaven.

Your point about some economically poor not hearing, is missing a point. Some have always not heard the evangel through no fault of their own. For long there was no evangel to be heard. And neither Peter nor Paul could get to Australian aboriginals. So yes, not all get that chance of heaven on earth in mortal life, but that makes no difference to them getting heaven in heaven in postmortem life (Steve H Hakes’ Israel’s Gone Global). The earliest Christians didn’t even bother to evangelise the ethnic-gentiles until getting a kick-start, so presumably weren’t afraid that no evangel meant a guaranteed hell after death.

May you reach your own resolution.

I'm debating my faith because of the existence of hell if God was all seeing all powerful and all knowing why would he allow some people to never become Christians by that logic he knew they would go to hell but made them anyway and what about people who live in extreme poverty and never even hear about Christianity in their life do they also go to he'll forever this feels like a massive plot hole also im not looking to start a argument just a genuine question

 

[eddif]

The fault found is in the hearts of the people not God.
Understand?

The hearts of the people were lead astray by the evil one. God was trying to lead people to himself. We do not fight against flesh and blood. We are warned to not do like the Jews did (written down for our instruction).

1 Corinthians 10:11 kjv
11.Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Psalms 5:8 kjv
8. Lead me, O LORD, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; make thy way straight before my face.

eddif

 

[Randy]

The hearts of the people were lead astray by the evil one. God was trying to lead people to himself. We do not fight against flesh and blood. We are warned to not do like the Jews did (written down for our instruction).

1 Corinthians 10:11 kjv
11.Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Psalms 5:8 kjv
8. Lead me, O LORD, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; make thy way straight before my face.

eddif

I think there are many in their graves that regret the "choices" they made while in the life of the body.
The one who sows the seeds is God's enemy Satan.
If your premil that's why God bounds Satan for the 1000 years so he can't deceive the nations till after the 1000 years.

Anyway no one loves more than the Father and we know no fault can be found in Him. The guy who started this thread appears to be looking. I don't know why but any fault found will be in the hearts of man not God.

 

[Randy]

Ephesians 2:11 kjv
11.Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13. But now in Christ Jesus you, the onesonce being far off, have become near by the blood of Christ.
14. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, somaking peace;

The Jew and gentile have become one new man.

eddif

I was never the other so to me its just the new creation. Christ in us.