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In Calvinism why are the sinners God made responsible for what God has made them?

Fastfredy0 said:
I didn't say they do. They are born in sin. It is imputed to them from Adam. SITE SOME VERSES TO PROVE ME WRONG DUDE .... like, your argumentation has no credibility without scripture.
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My argument has credibility with ACTUAL OBSERVABLE FACT. Fact that shows us the Bible is using a literary tool of exaggeration (or whatever the proper name for it is) to express the depth and pervasiveness of sin in man which even 'good' people have, and psychopaths and sociopaths have to an even greater degree. Start being real!
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Well, we are in agreement for once.
Aside: The forum's rules say you're not supposed to TROLL others. Perhaps you should reread the Forum rules.
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BTW, I will be replying to your posts at times.
You can read them or not.
If you remember we did discuss this.
You could put me on ignore, or ignore my posts.
Same difference.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
The rest of us, we're basically good
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Another false premise.

Premise 1: Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Premise 2: by Jethro
The rest of us, we're basically good
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Conclusion: Jethro doesn't know what he is talking about

Aside: This is getting boring. Your argumentation is way off. Read some commentaries... read some Systematic Theology books to try to put explain these things to you. There are Arminian Systematic Theology books, even that would be a help. Good luck.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Well, we are in agreement for once.
Aside: The forum's rules say you're not supposed to TROLL others. Perhaps you should reread the Forum rules.
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I see that you don't know that imputing a sin to a person is the same as having committed that sin.

I do wish you'd learn what calvinists believe. It would be helpful in our discussions.

This might be of help to you:

In Reformed theology, the imputation of sin is the crediting of Adam's sin to the account of every individual human being. Under the framework of covenant theology, Adam is considered as a "federal head" or representative of all of his progeny. His sinful act of eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which was forbidden by God had consequences for all humanity. This is explained as the sin being imputed, or accounted, to individual humans. A person that has sin imputed to them becomes guilty of transgression before God for being in violation to his laws and is subject to his punishments in the life hereafter.[1]
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imputation_of_sin
 
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Fastfredy0 said:
Another false premise.

Premise 1: Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
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BAD on you, lol! I made the distinction between 'good' and 'righteous'. You said there are no basically good people. The Bible says different. You need to explain who the 'good', but not righteous, person is in Romans 5:7.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth,

You would not understand it if I did explain it IMO. Good Luck
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Don't be dense. You can see that I made the clear distinction between righteous and good. You reject the premise that there are basically 'good' people. We know only saved believers are righteous. You've been rejecting the premise that there are 'good' people. You owe us an explanation of Romans 5:7.

Quick, wondering, lock the door so he can't escape, lol! He ain't getting out of here until he explains. :lol
 
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And then when you're done explaining that, explain who the person acquitted at the return of Christ is who never heard of Jesus or the gospel is (Romans 2:13-16), but who you claim does not exist. You gots lots of explaining to do. Or just come clean and abandon your Calvinistic beliefs. :yes
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth,

You would not understand it if I did explain it IMO. Good Luck
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THIS is trolling or flaming and could be reported if the other member so wished.
Jethro understands a lot more than you believe he does, and you cannot assume what another member understands.
You broke rules 1:3 and 1:5

Please treat others with Christianly love and respect.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Don't be dense. You reject the premise that there are basically 'good' people. Not righteous people. We know only saved believers are righteous. You've been rejecting the premise that there are 'good' people. You owe us an explanation of Romans 5:7.

Quick, wondering, lock the door so he can't escape, lol! He ain't getting out of here until he explains. :lol
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He does this Jethro.
Get used to it.

OR, maybe he doesn't have a real answer!
 
Free said:
Do not misrepresent what Calvinists believe. They very much believe that God is loving, merciful and just.
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Free,
You've hit upon my pet peeve with calvinism.
I would like an explanation from someone, anyone, as to the following:

How do you explain that God is loving, merciful and just (which He is)
IF He chooses those who will be saved and those who will be lost and damned,
for no other reason than that it pleases Him.

Thanks.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
Did Adam and Eve believe? Scripture pretty clearly indicates they did. What does that do to your statement? They were even created not born!!!
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They saw God's face. People without the testimony of God through which to 'see' God have no capacity to believe. But all men eventually receive the testimony of God even if it is only in nature and through conscience, so all (eventually) have the ability to believe.
 
wondering said:
And herein lies the problem.
too many commentaries,
too many books on systematic theology.
READ THE BIBLE. It comes in handy.

Which denominations believe people are born good?
It would be nice if you SUPPORTED your statements, just like I do.
Maybe you have a YouTube video that refers to this?
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Why are there too many commentaries and books?

Faithful men of God have written them. These men and their lives testify for what they live and teach, ordained by God to the calling. Many good OT and NT surveys, historical books, backgrounds and the like.

The problem becomes when people do not need a Pastor or other ordained men of God to teach them. I have heard many a charismatic say, I do not need commentaries, books or a Pastor, the Holy Spirit will teach me all things. The problem with this is that many people believe the Holy Spirit is a feeling and talking to them. Just turn on the idiot box to TBN and you will see all this in motion.

This is the verse many people use to justify that Holy Spirit teaches them, but that verse is not talking about what these people think.

John 14:26 “But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

Grace and peace to you.
 
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