In Calvinism why are the sinners God made responsible for what God has made them?

[Fastfredy0]

I am done replying to you.

Your condescending posts and replies are not worthy of good conversation and a waste of time.

Grace and peace to you.

B I N G O !!!!! ... and another person sees the light so to speak.

 

[Fastfredy0]

If you have something of substance to actually add to the discussion, feel free to do so, but trolling violates the ToS.

Yeah, lots of trolls in here. Glad someone in 'admin' is open minded and logical. Thank you Free.

 

[electedbyhim]

You keep switching subjects. Inclusivism and 'are babies born with sin accounted to them.

Inclusivism vs. exclusivism—what does the Bible say?​

here's your answer ... https://www.gotquestions.org/inclusivism-exclusivism.html​

Are all people born good?​

https://www.gotquestions.org/born-good.html

Aside: you should go to this non-reformed site to help you figure things out. Note: They back up what they say with verses.
Good Luck

Many believe Gotquestions is a Calvinistic site.

Gotquestions is an excellent cite for concise Biblical answers.

 

[jaybo]

I will just correct this misunderstanding. Jesus had to die for the same reason as you believe. There can be no forgiveness of sins without the shedding of blood, regardless of whether or not God chooses. The means of salvation does not change. Jesus died to atone for the sins of those who will be saved. If God predestined some to be saved, that does not negate the need for atonement.

Correction: Jesus died to atone for the sins of everyone. His bllod is the price for every single person

 

[electedbyhim]

Correction: Jesus died to atone for the sins of everyone. His bllod is the price for every single person

Jaybo if that is true, then hell should be empty. The Lord paid for their sins why are they there if their sins were atoned for?

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Free]

What a sad site gotquestions.org is . I would think they do not have ANY pentecostal writers .
I will share my thoughts about this link here https://www.gotquestions.org/cessationism.html
Here is what they say .
" There are indications that the gift of tongues has ceased."
"History indicates that tongues did cease. "

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are still with us today as they were before ! How do I know ? The Holy Spirit was used me and worked through me many times .

Fastfredy0 , if gotquestions.org is your bible fact checker , look out !

It is fallacious to conclude that because they are "wrong" about one thing (especially since it's your opinion), that they are wrong about other things (again, especially because it comes down to personal opinion). They could be wrong about the gifts of the Spirit but quite correct about being born with a sinful nature, they could be wrong about both, but they could also be right about both.

 

[Free]

Yeah, lots of trolls in here. Glad someone in 'admin' is open minded and logical. Thank you Free.

I just want everyone to abide by the ToS and have a civil, respectful discussion. As much as some of us disagree, we're all made in the image of God and worthy of respect, not to mention we're also brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[Fastfredy0]

I will share my thoughts about this link here https://www.gotquestions.org/cessationism.html
Here is what they say .
" There are indications that the gift of tongues has ceased."
"History indicates that tongues did cease. "

You're changing the subject to Continuationism (the belief that all the spiritual gifts, including healings, tongues, and miracles, are still in operation today, just as they were in the days of the early church) but .... what the heck.
Everyone has ideas and sometimes ideas conflict. You're implied allegation the GOTQUESTIONS.ORG is an unreliable source of biblical understanding based on the fact that you don't agree with a particular assertion is narrow minded in my opinion. Besides, unlike you, they gave biblical reasoning for their opinion whereas you have not.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are still with us today as they were before ! How do I know ? The Holy Spirit was used me and worked through me many times .

This happens to all Christians. John 14:15; Romans 5:5 etc. etc. This does not prove or disprove Continuationism.
...aside: I don't believe in Continuationism but it is not a subject I care about. Start another thread if it interests you.

 

[electedbyhim]

What a sad site gotquestions.org is . I would think they do not have ANY pentecostal writers .
I will share my thoughts about this link here https://www.gotquestions.org/cessationism.html
Here is what they say .
" There are indications that the gift of tongues has ceased."
"History indicates that tongues did cease. "

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are still with us today as they were before ! How do I know ? The Holy Spirit was used me and worked through me many times .

Fastfredy0 , if gotquestions.org is your bible fact checker , look out !

I have created a thread about the gifts in the past. Please feel free to revise the thread and prove the gifts are still in use today. I believe I also created a thread from that, about woman want to be pastors and leaders in the church.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Fastfredy0]

It is fallacious to conclude that because they are "wrong" about one thing (especially since it's your opinion), that they are wrong about other things (again, especially because it comes down to personal opinion).

Everyone has ideas and sometimes ideas conflict. You're implied allegation the GOTQUESTIONS.ORG is an unreliable source of biblical understanding based on the fact that you don't agree with a particular assertion is narrow minded in my opinion.

Free ... please type faster so I don't have to duplicate with what you are going to say.... *giggles*

Aside: No, we aren't the same person *giggle*

 

[Fastfredy0]

Many believe Gotquestions is a Calvinistic site.

I think they tend that way. I read one article that basically stated they are 4 pointers (not
Limited Atonement or Particular Redemption or Definite Atonement or whatever you want to call it).
Then I read another that had them on the fence about the 5th point.
So, I would say they are not REFORM but lean that way.

Aside: When people try to put all the doctrines together to eliminate contradiction they tend to end up Reformed IMO. I could be wrong ... I have a bias as we all do.
Aside2: They do look at many subjects and give scriptural answers and often mention other points of view

 

[electedbyhim]

I think they tend that way. I read one article that basically stated they are 4 pointers (not
Limited Atonement or Particular Redemption or Definite Atonement or whatever you want to call it).
Then I read another that had them on the fence about the 5th point.
So, I would say they are not REFORM but lean that way.

Aside: When people try to put all the doctrines together to eliminate contradiction they tend to end up Reformed IMO. I could be wrong ... I have a bias as we all do.
Aside2: They do look at many subjects and give scriptural answers and often mention other points of view

I discovered them when the Lord saved me around 2005 or so, if memory serves correctly. I frequent that site a lot even to refresh my memory. Monergism.com is another favorite, but not as concise as Gotquestions.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Fastfredy0]

I discovered them when the Lord saved me around 2005 or so, if memory serves correctly. I frequent that site a lot even to refresh my memory. Monergism.com is another favorite, but not as concise as Gotquestions.

Agreed. Great site for insights into theological questions. It can save a lot of time when a particular question comes to mind as it gives verses to back up what they say which few people in here do.
I also have Monergism.com as a favorite. This is an interesting article, the subject of which I ponder occasionally: https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/qna/arminians.html

 

[electedbyhim]

Agreed. Great site for insights into theological questions. It can save a lot of time when a particular question comes to mind as it gives verses to back up what they say which few people in here do.
I also have Monergism.com as a favorite. This is an interesting article, the subject of which I ponder occasionally: https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/qna/arminians.html

Indeed.

 

[hawkman]

Not sure what you are talking about. It was my bad for not specifically stating the purpose/theme of my post #355 which is: Babies are born in sin. An answer to this question is given by https://www.gotquestions.org/born-good.html, who gave various biblical references to back up their opinion.
Note: One should give scripture to prove ones point.

Premise 1: The penalty for sin is death Rom. 6:23
Premise 2: Some Babies die
Conclusion: Babies has sin accounted/imputed to them

Since this is you belief "Babies are born in sin" . What if a Christian man and Christian woman have a baby . Where would the sin come from that this baby would be in ?

 

[electedbyhim]

Since this is you belief "Babies are born in sin" . What if a Christian man and Christian woman have a baby . Where would the sin come from that this baby would be in ?

This comment says many things.

I am speechless.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[hawkman]

This comment says many things.

I am speechless.

Grace and peace to you.

Actually my post is a question not a comment .

 

[Fastfredy0]

Since this is you belief "Babies are born in sin" . What if a Christian man and Christian woman have a baby . Where would the sin come from that this baby would be in ?

The bible says sin is imputed to all mankind via Adam. Actual parents are irrelevant. Theologians use the term "federal head" as being Adam (in Christ in when talking about imputation of righteousness). Verses to support this include:
Isaiah 48:8b For I knew that you would surely deal treacherously, and that from before birth you were called a rebel.

Psalm 51:5 But I was born a sinner, yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.

Psalm 58:3 The ungodly are perverse and estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

• Isaiah 48:8 You have never heard, you have never known, from of old your ear has not been opened. For I knew that you would surely deal treacherously, and that from before birth you were called a rebel.

John 3:6a That which is born of flesh is flesh;

• Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— … For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners; (Romans 5:12-21)
• 1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15:45 So it is written [in Scripture], “The first man, Adam, became a living soul (an individual);” the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving spirit [restoring the dead to life]. 46 However, the spiritual [the immortal life] is not first, but the physical [the mortal life]; then the spiritual. 47 The first man [Adam] is from the earth, earthy [made of dust]; the second Man [Christ, the Lord] is from heaven. 48 As is the earthly man [the man of dust], so are those who are of earth; and as is the heavenly [Man], so are those who are of heaven.

Ephesians 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

• sin is imputed
• treated as though sinners
• not thus personally sinners
• not regarded as actually guilty of Adam's sin
• sinner's representatively
• born sinful, naturally becoming actual sinners
• born spiritually dead (needing regeneration)
• condemned to the penalties of death because of Adam Romans 5:12

See https://www.gotquestions.org/imputed-sin.html for another view point

 

[electedbyhim]

The bible says sin is imputed to all mankind via Adam. Actual parents are irrelevant. Theologians use the term "federal head" as being Adam (in Christ in when talking about imputation of righteousness). Verses to support this include:
Isaiah 48:8b For I knew that you would surely deal treacherously, and that from before birth you were called a rebel.

Psalm 51:5 But I was born a sinner, yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.

Psalm 58:3 The ungodly are perverse and estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

• Isaiah 48:8 You have never heard, you have never known, from of old your ear has not been opened. For I knew that you would surely deal treacherously, and that from before birth you were called a rebel.

John 3:6a That which is born of flesh is flesh;

• Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— … For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners; (Romans 5:12-21)
• 1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15:45 So it is written [in Scripture], “The first man, Adam, became a living soul (an individual);” the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving spirit [restoring the dead to life]. 46 However, the spiritual [the immortal life] is not first, but the physical [the mortal life]; then the spiritual. 47 The first man [Adam] is from the earth, earthy [made of dust]; the second Man [Christ, the Lord] is from heaven. 48 As is the earthly man [the man of dust], so are those who are of earth; and as is the heavenly [Man], so are those who are of heaven.

Ephesians 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

• sin is imputed
• treated as though sinners
• not thus personally sinners
• not regarded as actually guilty of Adam's sin
• sinner's representatively
• born sinful, naturally becoming actual sinners
• born spiritually dead (needing regeneration)
• condemned to the penalties of death because of Adam Romans 5:12

See https://www.gotquestions.org/imputed-sin.html for another view point

You just opened up a can of worms.

Nevertheless correct.

 

[hawkman]

You just opened up a can of worms.

Nevertheless correct.

Ahh , you saw it .