In Christianity, Is anybody ever wrong?

[Edward]

So Satan does not exist?
1 pet 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Your John 10 passage says….”no MAN is able to pluck them out”. Doesn’t say the devil Can’t. Pick another passage. And, how would the devil do that?
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15

Satan makes it look and sound right!

You mock the idea of relying on the book.
When Jesus was tempted by the devil in the wilderness; what did he rely on? IT IS WRITTEN!

Do you have a hard time with comprehension? I did not mock relying on the Bible, I lifted it up! And my point was that while Logos is the primary instructions for us, that there is a thing called Rhemas. Which I asked about and you totally dodged and act like you didn't read that.

So exactly what are you saying?
That satan kept me from being arrested that day?
That satan, since he is not a man, can pluck you out of the Lord God Almighty's hand?
That satan is stronger than God?
That you can not recognize or trust the Lord's voice?
That you wouldn't know the Lord if He walked up in your face?
That there is no way that I can truthfully know the Lord's voice when I hear it?

Oh boy. I'm'ma have fun with this one, lol. After some more coffee I'll get you some scriptures! Plus maybe I sould write up my account and testimony about the day Jesus strolled into my room where I was (I could not see Him with my eyes), and spoke to me in an audible voice and told me to pray for a certain Brother in Christ because he needs help. I didn't test this presence, because I recognized His voice! You want to hear about that one so you can call me a liar about that too?

Dude, you are very mixed up. The Bible is good. The Bible is essential for us. The Bible leads us to God...

And God's not allowed to speak at this point like you say?
Bwahahahahaha. I'm soory brother but you are wrong!

 

[Cnkw3]

Paul wanted to go to Asia and the spirit told him to go elsewhere. This is the Spirit revealing something else but not against known scripture.

Sorry but I’m not totally following your post. Paul was divinely inspired and therefore was directly lead by the Spirit. You aren’t. I’m not. Nobody is today. i would like to think you understand that but maybe not.

Nothing devilish about being told to go west instead of east.

?

I have never ever heard this. Sensing the presence of God by an atheist? Never. Seeing your sin? Mentioned in many places in the Bible. Knowing you are saved with no preaching? Doubtful.

Who said anything about an “atheist”?

You: The problem is…..It’s not Biblical! Nowhere was anyone in the new covenant EVER “saved” “born agin” in that way. Nobody EVER had an experience and then fell down and prayed and was then declared saved. Sins removed. NEVER.
Me:
Is any individual declared “already saved” in the Bible?

I don’t think God is limited to the Word already given and is otherwise silent.

so what all is he saying to you? Maybe you want to join in with the rest of them with your testimony. It seems like everybody has one even though none of them prove anything.
I’m not saying that feelings and experience don’t mean anything I’m just saying that they are no confirmation of salvation or that its truly God causing it all. Christianity is not subjective. Too many people think it is and that’s why nobody can agree on much of anything.

 

[Edward]

Sorry but I’m not totally following your post. Paul was divinely inspired and therefore was directly lead by the Spirit. You aren’t. I’m not. Nobody is today. i would like to think you understand that but maybe not.

So now you are saying that there is no Holy Spirit? No indwelling of the Holy Spirit within us?
...and you're a Christian.

 

[Edward]

so what all is he saying to you? Maybe you want to join in with the rest of them with your testimony. It seems like everybody has one even though none of them prove anything.

WHy are you mocking tis nice lady? I thought you was supposed to be a Christian?

Bad show brother!

 

[Edward]

Sorry but I’m not totally following your post. Paul was divinely inspired and therefore was directly lead by the Spirit. You aren’t. I’m not. Nobody is today. i would like to think you understand that but maybe not.

?

Who said anything about an “atheist”?

so what all is he saying to you? Maybe you want to join in with the rest of them with your testimony. It seems like everybody has one even though none of them prove anything.
I’m not saying that feelings and experience don’t mean anything I’m just saying that they are no confirmation of salvation or that its truly God causing it all. Christianity is not subjective. Too many people think it is and that’s why nobody can agree on much of anything.

I guess you aren't going to answer my post to you?
Too many questions for you?
Too many good questions?
Answer me.

 

[christian1724]

You didnt tell me which books you think we need that we don’t have. The ones that will really strengthen our faith. The ones God really wants us to have.

I'll kindly do that if you will direct quote me where I stated that books needed to be included or excluded.

 

[christian1724]

How does the HS draw us to truth?
...
It is through hearing and learning.

Is everyone drawn to hear and learn the Truth? Why not?
What gives a person the ability to hear and learn?
What causes a person to be drawn to that which needs to be heard and learned?
Can a person receive that drawing who doesn't already have it?
Can a person lose that drawing?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Sorry but I’m not totally following your post. Paul was divinely inspired and therefore was directly lead by the Spirit. You aren’t. I’m not. Nobody is today. i would like to think you understand that but maybe not.

I have seen people be as divinely inspired as Paul was. That is, the Spirit spoke to them the same as He spoke to Paul. The question for believers isn’t if but what must I do to be one of these God speaks to.

?

Who said anything about an “atheist”?

Before one becomes a believers they’re an atheist (unbeliever.)

so what all is he saying to you? Maybe you want to join in with the rest of them with your testimony. It seems like everybody has one even though none of them prove anything.
I’m not saying that feelings and experience don’t mean anything I’m just saying that they are no confirmation of salvation or that its truly God causing it all. Christianity is not subjective. Too many people think it is and that’s why nobody can agree on much of anything.

So you think you can read words on a page and then say you are saved based on those words with no real inner action on your part like a law book? The testimonies of everyone who is clearly among the saved in the Bible had inner responses.

 

[christian1724]

I asked you for an example where the Spirit is telling you something different then what the text says..

Please direct quote me where I indicated that the Spirit is telling me something that is "different" to what the text says. (Also, your selection of words by which you misrepresent what others say is atrocious, is that intentional?)

 

[christian1724]

Since you aren’t apart of the house of Israel some 2600 years ago; how will Ez 17 help you?

What makes you think that you know that?

I'm drawn to understand that riddle. Aren't you?
Why did you not offer any explanation of that chapter. Didn't you indicate that all Truth has already been plainly set before us? Didn't you suggest that to ask for understanding is unnecessary, even as to invite the devil in? I hope you weren't raised in that manner.

Ezekiel 17. Explanation. Please.
Failing that, please quit implying that there is nothing else to for me to learn because it is obvious to me that there is, and Luke 11 instructs me on how I might gain that understanding.

 

[Hopeful]

What makes you think that you know that?

I'm drawn to understand that riddle. Aren't you?
Why did you not offer any explanation of that chapter. Didn't you indicate that all Truth has already been plainly set before us? Didn't you suggest that to ask for understanding is unnecessary, even as to invite the devil in? I hope you weren't raised in that manner.

Ezekiel 17. Explanation. Please.
Failing that, please quit implying that there is nothing else to for me to learn because it is obvious to me that there is, and Luke 11 instructs me on how I might gain that understanding.

Do you really want the understanding?
Or is that just a test for cnkw3

 

[christian1724]

In rom 2 we find this...
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 2:28-29
The church today is referred to as “the Israel of God”. Real “Jews” today are found in the church. They are Jews inwardly and not outwardly. In the first century it was the Jews at every turn that persecuted the church. Just read Pauls missionary journeys and they were all over him. They actually stoned him to death but God brought him back to life. The “Jews” did not want to give up their religion and they fought hard not too.
Who killed Jesus? Jews!
Why? He was a threat.
Was Paul a jew? Yes, and very devout. Did he ultimately change his religion? Yes. That is the pattern of salvation for every so called “Jew” today.
Dont let people today tell you that the “Jews” today are still Gods people. They aren’t. That is a message from the devil. They have the opportunity to believe in Jesus but they wont.

Thank You! I consider that a thoughtful (considered) comment. I don't necessarily agree with your assessment but I appreciate it.

Do you differentiate between between "Jews" and "Israelites" then?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Is everyone drawn to hear and learn the Truth? Why not?

No, because the truth can be very unpleasant.

What gives a person the ability to hear and learn?

A heart that wants to do so.

What causes a person to be drawn to that which needs to be heard and learned?

Inner moral fiber that is strengthened beyond the desire for convenience.

Can a person receive that drawing who doesn't already have it?
Can a person lose that drawing?

Yes and yes.

 

[christian1724]

Do you really want the understanding?
Or is that just a test for cnkw3

Hopeful, I think you know that it is actually both. I have studied it for some time but I have a lot of blanks in that understanding (so far as how it has worked out to this day). If you have insights, I will happily hear them though. While I'm not expecting much thoughtful input from cnkw3 on this matter, he does seem to insist that it's all already there to be understood. Maybe he has a key. More likely that I will simply be 'slain in the Word' as a present to some in this forum.

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful, I think you know that it is actually both. I have studied it for some time but I have a lot of blanks in that understanding. If you have insights, I will happily hear them though. While I'm not expecting much thoughtful input from cnkw3 on this matter, he does seem to insist that it's all already there to be understood. Maybe he has a key. More likely that I will simply be 'slain in the Word' as a present to some in this forum.

I only read page 5 of this thread, so I have no back ground on previous thoughts here.
However, the prophesy brought forth by Ezekiel refers to Israel and Judah as eagles, and how God built them up and can tear them down, by His power.
May God be praised, and feared.

 

[christian1724]

I only read page 5 of this thread, so I have no back ground on previous thoughts here.
However, the prophesy brought forth by Ezekiel refers to Israel and Judah as eagles, and how God built them up and can tear them down, by His power.
May God be praised, and feared.

Yes, He will be I am sure. Maybe that chapter will one day have a thread of it's own.

 

[Edward]

You mock the idea of relying on the book.
When Jesus was tempted by the devil in the wilderness; what did he rely on? IT IS WRITTEN!

That's right Brother, we rely on the Written word, Jesus did too and I haven't said anything to the contrary.

Romans 10:17
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.../(KJV)

Faith comes by hearing hearing? Why do you suppose they repeat theirself and say hearing twice?

Could it be that there is two types of Word of God available to us? The written word, referred to as Logos,
more commonly referred to as the Bible. And Rhemas which is the spoken word of God.

Just for fun, let's look the word "word" up in the Strongs Concordance to see how "word" is used in this particular text of Romans 10.

Strong's Greek 4487, Rhema. How about that?!


Outline of Biblical Usage

1. that which is or has been uttered by the living voice, thing spoken, word
   1. any sound produced by the voice and having definite meaning
   2. speech, discourse
      1. what one has said
   3. a series of words joined together into a sentence (a declaration of one's mind made in words)
      1. an utterance
      2. a saying of any sort as a message, a narrative
         1. concerning some occurrence
2. subject matter of speech, thing spoken of
   1. so far forth as it is a matter of narration
   2. so far as it is a matter of command
   3. a matter of dispute, case at law...
      Strong’s Definitions
      ῥῆμα rhēma, hray'-mah; from G4483; an utterance (individually, collectively or specially),; by implication, a matter or topic (especially of narration, command or dispute); with a negative naught whatever:—+ evil, + nothing, saying, word.../(BlueLetterBible.com)
      

Once again I would to make clear that in no way am I disparaging the written Word of God. My point is that there are Rhemas also! You do not seem to put much stock in Rhemas. They probably happen to you and you don't even know it!Tell me, have you ever been reading the Bible, and a verse or a passage just speaks to your heart and your situation so clearly that it's like you have an ephiphiny? That's God talking to your heart. That is receiving a Rhema.

The voices I hear told me that He desires for all of us to be able to hear His still small voice, and instantly obey. (direct quote).

Do you think that your imagination, your intuition, and your conscience are imaginary things to be dismissed??
These things are some of your spiritual senses my friend. Ponder that one. (I know, you wanna call BS, but how do you really know?-You don't) So it could be true. I think it is. Your conscience always tells you the right thing to do. Listen to him.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, He will be I am sure. Maybe that chapter will one day have a thread of it's own.

I don't know about any other threads in the future, but I think my interpretation was right on target, thanks be to God.

 

[christian1724]

In chapter 49 we have Jacob prophesying and blessing his kids. The one we should be the most interested in is this one…..
Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee. Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Genesis 49:8-10
He just prophesied the coming of Jesus through the tribe of Judah. Thats the one that concerns us today. it speaks to the reliability and confirmation of the Bible as Gods word. We know these words were written years before Jesus came. How did he know “Shiloh” would come through Judah if he wasn’t inspired of God. Why do I believe in the Bible? One of the reasons are prophesies just like this.

That is an interesting one and I've chased interests in it before.

You say "The one we should be the most interested in is this one…".
Well, if what you say is true then why didn't Jacob just say, "Look, I'm gonna skip the blessings for all you other kids and just get to the interesting one. Judah is a lions..."?
No sir, I find it all interesting.
Your suggestion(?) that I should just forget Joseph and move on to the important stuff only serves to devalue those parts of scripture that don't currently interest you personally. Why did he devote a whole chapter (Genesis 48) to passing the birthright on to Joseph (along with an eye-opening sight into the future of his children Genesis 49:22 ). Which brings me to an interesting note in your comment, namely this one - " ... if he wasn’t inspired of God." Wasn't he inspired when he wrote about Joseph's future? Maybe it was just you who wasn't inspired (yet)?

 

[christian1724]

My point is…..If that was your experience it came from the devil and not from God. How do I know? Because it cant be found in the “truth” he left us.

Good heavens, is somebody asleep at the wheel here? I'm going to ask you to quote where I said that was my experience.