In John 5:25-29 Jesus confirmed the dead will have a chance to obey His voice while still in the grave

[Hopeful]

They are dammed because they are evil. Punishment is eternal, there is no return to life once one has "died the second death", no rising from the second deathI

I wasn't talking about the second death.
If a murderer or thief dies, the voice they hear will be calling them to the lake of fire.
Not offering them one more chance.

 

[Hopeful]

Just as we are saved by grace through faith in Christ and not because of our life style before we believed, so are the dead who become believers in Hell.

That is not true.
Folks have their entire lives to repent and serve God.
To get an extra chance after death is an idea of the devil to dupe sinners into thinking they don't have to "get right" now.
All accommodations for sin are of the devil.

But those who refused to repent and continue in their evil will rise to a resurrection of condemnation, and their eternal punishment is set according to their deeds. Only those guilty of eternal sin are tormented eternally.
My doctrine is the gospel of Christ is true for everyone born since the foundation of the world. Everyone who ever lived, except those guilty of eternal sin, can repent and be saved in "the world to come"
31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.
32 "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. (Matt. 12:31-32 NKJ)

If a man doesn't repent of sin well before his death, his sins cannot be forgiven.

 

[Hopeful]

Christ did say "do not marvel" the Father has committed all authority to kill and make alive, and He will do that based upon whether people "listen" to His voice or not:

21 "For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.
22 "For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,
23 "that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
25 "Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
26 "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
27 "and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
28 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 "and come forth-- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. (Jn. 5:21-29 NKJ)

When the Pharisees objected that Christ's teaching implied He was equal with God, HE DID NOT DENY IT.

16 For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath.
17 But Jesus answered them, "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working."
18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. (Jn. 5:16-18 NKJ)

HE PROVED IT, saying His voice "kills and makes alive all who obey it just like the Father", whatever He sees the Father do, He can do in the Father:

19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.
20 "For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.
21 "For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.
22 "For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,
23 "that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. (Jn. 5:19-23 NKJ)


That is the context. The Pharisees objected Christ made Himself equal to God, and Jesus saying "that's right, I am."

Its not about the wicked being punished for sins, its about God killing and making alive whoever He wants to. He will have mercy on whomever He chooses to have mercy, and Here Jesus says all the dead "who hear will live"

25 "Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
26 "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, (Jn. 5:25-26 NKJ)

Accommodations for sin are of the devil.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I wasn't talking about the second death.
If a murderer or thief dies, the voice they hear will be calling them to the lake of fire.
Not offering them one more chance.

No, the lake of fire is the second death from which there is no return:
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (Rev. 20:14 NKJ)

But just as Death and Hades are consumed by the fire, so will be some of the wicked cast into it. Only those guilty of eternal sin, suffer eternally in the fire.

 

[Alfred Persson]

That is not true.
Folks have their entire lives to repent and serve God.
To get an extra chance after death is an idea of the devil to dupe sinners into thinking they don't have to "get right" now.
All accommodations for sin are of the devil.

If a man doesn't repent of sin well before his death, his sins cannot be forgiven.

What about those who died before Christ? What happens to them?

Bible readers know what "sin" is:

I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet." (Rom. 7:7 NKJ)

What happens to those who didn't know what sins to repent of?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Accommodations for sin are of the devil.

So Christ is "of the Devil?"

Christ says He will give life to whomever He pleases, equal to the Father who does the same.

Are they "of the Devil?

15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. (Rom. 9:15-16 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

That is not true.
Folks have their entire lives to repent and serve God.
To get an extra chance after death is an idea of the devil to dupe sinners into thinking they don't have to "get right" now.
All accommodations for sin are of the devil.

If a man doesn't repent of sin well before his death, his sins cannot be forgiven.

Not according to Jesus:

25 "Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
26 "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
27 "and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. (Jn. 5:25-27 NKJ)

 

[Hopeful]

No, the lake of fire is the second death from which there is no return:
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (Rev. 20:14 NKJ)

Agreed.

But just as Death and Hades are consumed by the fire, so will be some of the wicked cast into it. Only those guilty of eternal sin, suffer eternally in the fire.

Unrepented of sin during this life warrants eternal punishment.
Paul spelled it out in 1 Cor 6:9-10.
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Paul also wrote this...
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal 5:19-21)
Your doctrine makes Paul a liar.
Were your doctrine true, Jesus wouldn't have needed to suffer and die for our sins.

 

[Hopeful]

No, the lake of fire is the second death from which there is no return:
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (Rev. 20:14 NKJ)

But just as Death and Hades are consumed by the fire, so will be some of the wicked cast into it. Only those guilty of eternal sin, suffer eternally in the fire.

If you don't repent of sin, you are the wicked.
Jesus said the servants of sin hate God. (Matt 6:24)
There are no second chances.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Agreed.

Unrepented of sin during this life warrants eternal punishment.
Paul spelled it out in 1 Cor 6:9-10.
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Paul also wrote this...
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal 5:19-21)
Your doctrine makes Paul a liar.
Were your doctrine true, Jesus wouldn't have needed to suffer and die for our sins.

No, Paul is 100% correct, no one evil will enter God's Kingdom. That begs the question what happens to them outside the kingdom of God.

Whether they are punished and then exterminated, or suffer eternally, is according to deeds. Its repeated twice so there can be no misunderstanding:

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. (Rev. 20:12-13 NKJ)

 

[Hopeful]

So Christ is "of the Devil?"
Christ says He will give life to whomever He pleases, equal to the Father who does the same.
Are they "of the Devil?
15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. (Rom. 9:15-16 NKJ)

Jesus didn't do anything to accommodate sinfulness.
In fact, He died so we wouldn't have to sin anymore at all.
He said in John 8:32-34 that the truth would free us from committing sin.
Your doctrine is not the truth, as it accommodates more and more sin.
Crediting Jesus with words that accommodate sin is blasphemy.

 

[Alfred Persson]

If you don't repent of sin, you are the wicked.
Jesus said the servants of sin hate God. (Matt 6:24)
There are no second chances.

That's your opinion, but I proved in the OP its not right according to Jesus.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Jesus didn't do anything to accommodate sinfulness.
In fact, He died so we wouldn't have to sin anymore at all.
He said in John 8:32-34 that the truth would free us from committing sin.
Your doctrine is not the truth, as it accommodates more and more sin.
Crediting Jesus with words that accommodate sin is blasphemy.

I asked you to clarify the blanket charge "of the Devil"

It was your claims you are clarifying, not mine.

The OP expresses my beliefs, not your careless charges.

They implied Jesus accommodated sin if He gave people a second chance.

I wonder if you would apply that standard to yourself, when one day you plead someone you love to give you a second chance?

Or if someone begs you for a second chance, do you deny them?

And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors. (Matt. 6:12 NKJ)

 

[Hopeful]

Not according to Jesus:

25 "Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
26 "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
27 "and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. (Jn. 5:25-27 NKJ)

The dead will hear Him, whether pure or impure.
But the impure had their chance and didn't take it while they lived.
It is written..."And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" (Heb 9:27)
Death, then judgement.
You can't insert "one more chance" in there anywhere.

 

[Hopeful]

No, Paul is 100% correct, no one evil will enter God's Kingdom. That begs the question what happens to them outside the kingdom of God.

They go to the lake of fire.

Whether they are punished and then exterminated, or suffer eternally, is according to deeds. Its repeated twice so there can be no misunderstanding:
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. (Rev. 20:12-13 NKJ)

...according to his works...while alive on earth.

 

[Hopeful]

That's your opinion, but I proved in the OP its not right according to Jesus.

The unrepentant are wicked.
You proved that you have believed a false doctrine that makes Jesus' suffering and death unnecessary.
It makes Jesus unnecessary.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The dead will hear Him, whether pure or impure.
But the impure had their chance and didn't take it while they lived.
It is written..."And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" (Heb 9:27)
Death, then judgement.
You can't insert "one more chance" in there anywhere.

Why have a judgment if they were condemned before they died? If dying in sin condemns them, what need is there of a "judgment". A judgment could go either way, its not the "penalty phase" of a trial of someone found guilty.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The unrepentant are wicked.
You proved that you have believed a false doctrine that makes Jesus' suffering and death unnecessary.
It makes Jesus unnecessary.

Just the opposite, I prove EVERYONE born since the foundation of the world is saved ONLY because of Christ's sacrifice. I made His suffering and death 100% necessary for ANYONE to be saved.

 

[Hopeful]

I asked you to clarify the blanket charge "of the Devil"

Where?

It was your claims you are clarifying, not mine.

Of course.
Your claims are false.

The OP expresses my beliefs, not your careless charges.
They implied Jesus accommodated sin if He gave people a second chance.

It is your doctrine that allows men to sin right up to death and then have yet another chance after death to repent.
It is unbiblical and makes no sense.

I wonder if you would apply that standard to yourself, when one day you plead someone you love to give you a second chance?

I am still living, so can do just that.
I can't ask for forgiveness after I am dead.

Or if someone begs you for a second chance, do you deny them?

Nope.
Things can be done in this life that cannot be done in the after life.

And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors. (Matt. 6:12 NKJ)

Do it in this life time.
You won't get a chance to do it later.

 

[Hopeful]

Why have a judgment if they were condemned before they died? If dying in sin condemns them, what need is there of a "judgment". A judgment could go either way, its not the "penalty phase" of a trial of someone found guilty.

Men are condemned from their very first sin.
Thanks be to God though, we have been given the gift of repentance from sin.
Those who don't turn from darkness and unto light, from satan and unto God, will be judged guilty and tossed into the lake of fire.
Those who do turn from sin will be judged innocent and worthy of eternal life.