I'm very sorry for you missing your wife and hearing of her suffering.
I am also very sorry to hear of your misunderstanding of Scripture.
Infant Immersion
- Thread starter Doug Brents
- Start date
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
I am also very sorry to hear of your misunderstanding of Scripture.
justified by grace faith and the blood .no amount of water has ever saved cleansed spiritually with out the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins hebrews
New Covenant Ministry
11 But Christ has appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come.[a] In the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands (that is, not of this creation), 12 he entered the most holy place once for all time, not by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a young cow, sprinkling those who are defiled, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our[b] consciences from dead works so that we can serve the living God?
15 Therefore, he is the mediator of a new covenant,[c] so that those who are called might receive the promise of the eternal inheritance, because a death has taken place for redemption from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. 16 Where a will exists, the death of the one who made it must be established. 17 For a will is valid only when people die, since it is never in effect while the one who made it is living. 18 That is why even the first covenant was inaugurated with blood. 19 For when every command had been proclaimed by Moses to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats,[d] along with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll itself and all the people, 20 saying, This is the blood of the covenant that God has ordained for you.[e] 21 In the same way, he sprinkled the tabernacle and all the articles of worship with blood. 22 According to the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
my reply had nothing to do with being saved.but baptism .i stand by the teaching of being justified
Romans 3:24 Romans 3:28 Romans 5:9
Justification
a forensic term, opposed to condemnation. As regards its nature, it is the judicial act of God, by which he pardons all the sins of those who believe in Christ, and accounts, accepts, and treats them as righteous in the eye of the law, i.e., as conformed to all its demands. In addition to the pardon (q.v.) of sin, justification declares that all the claims of the law are satisfied in respect of the justified. It is the act of a judge and not of a sovereign. The law is not relaxed or set aside, but is declared to be fulfilled in the strictest sense; and so the person justified is declared to be entitled to all the advantages and rewards arising from perfect obedience to the law (Rom. 5:1-10).
just as if we had never sinned
"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. '" John 14:6
There are none saved by any other than through Jesus via the Gospel message in the Bible. Period
Jesus never "got saved" because He never lost favor with God through sin. At least not until He became sin for us on the Cross, and then God turned His back on all of Creation for 3 hours and Jesus cried "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me!"
Absolutely. Without the shedding of Jesus' Blood, immersion would have no meaning. But because He died and created a way for us to be saved, our immersion in response to His command to do so "for the forgiveness of [our] sins." has meaning.
I agree with your definition of justification, and it is exactly what Scripture teaches. But I disagree with your timing.
Read over to Rom 6:1-6 and tell me, when does it say we are justified, ie: our sins are forgiven, we are united with Jesus' death, we are united with Jesus' resurrection, etc.?
you dont believe our sins are forgiven? you should study hebrews 9 : 22 According to the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
1 Peter 1:18-20 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)
18 For you know that you were redeemed from your empty way of life inherited from your ancestors, not with perishable things like silver or gold, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of an unblemished and spotless lamb. 20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was revealed in these last times for you.
Mark 2:9-11 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)
9 Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat, and walk’? 10 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he told the paralytic— 11 “I tell you: get up, take your mat, and go home.”
the doctrines of justification is forgiveness of sins .just like in a jury trial .when the jury votes not guilty .the record is set clean wiped out. saying you did not commit the crime. your set free. when we get saved the blood shed at calvary takes away ALL our past sins. Jesus took our place
2nd corinthians 5: 21 He made the one who did not know sin to be sin[e] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
the sea of forgetfulness
Micah 7: 18 Who is a God like You, who pardons iniquity and passes over the transgression of the remnant of His inheritance—who does not retain His anger forever, because He delights in loving devotion? 19He will again have compassion on us; He will vanquish our iniquities. You will cast out all our sins into the depths of the sea.
how deep is the sea of forgetfulness ?
Psalm 103:12 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)
12 As far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed
our transgressions from us. what is transgressions ? SIN
to be honest i am shocked by this statement when does it say we are justified, ie: our sins are forgiven, the very moment we get saved /justified /sanctified /glorified
wrong wrong wrong your adding something else to grace a work we have to do baptism follows salvation not precedes.
Acts 16:29-31 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)
29 The jailer called for lights, rushed in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 He escorted them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
Acts 8:35-36 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)
35 Philip proceeded to tell him the good news about Jesus, beginning with that Scripture.
36 As they were traveling down the road, they came to some water. The eunuch said, “Look, there’s water. What would keep me from being baptized?” [a]
the thief on the cross
Luke 23:42-43 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me[a] when you come into your kingdom.”
43 And he said to him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
No, my question was not in any way supposed to be taken as a statement that we are not justified. My question is, "WHEN are we justified?" At what point does Scripture say we are justified?
I read in at least 4 Scriptures where we are justified, forgiven, cleansed, purified, etc. at the instant that we are immersed, not just when we "believe".
the very moment we get saved i answered that john 3:16-17 2nd corinthians 5:17 and 21 do you think there is a delay or 12 step program to being forgiven?baptism does not take our sins away. baptism follows salvation not precedes its symbolic of the old man going into the watery grave and the new man resurrected
romans 3
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
25 Him God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 to declare, I say, at this time, His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him that believeth in Jesus.
when was our sins paid for / redemption ? A. before the cross B at the cross or C. after the cross if our sins are took away at baptism .then there is no need to be born again .its a spiritual birth do you think jesus had to have his sins washed away? read 2nd corinthians 5:21
Here's the sticking point for me. First, I have been assuming when you say immersed you are speaking of water baptism where the recipient is immersed in water. That is an action by us and ergo a work therefore I see what you're saying as a promotion of a work's salvation. What I understand you saying is that someone human must dunk me in water to be saved and I can't accept this theology.
What if that immersion is of the Holy Spirit rather than a water baptism?
Yes, the moment we are saved we are justified. But none of the passages you referenced here tell us when that occurs. Rom 6:1-6 tells us that we are justified (united with Christ's death) in immersion. Col 2:11-15 tells us that we are justified (sins circumcised from us by the Holy Spirit) in immersion. Acts 22:16 tells us that we are justified (sins washed away) in immersion. Mark 16:16 tells us that we are saved (justified) when we believe and are immersed.
Our sins are washed away, we are added to the Church, we are forgiven of our sins, etc when we are immersed.
Our sins were paid for on the cross, but since not everyone will be saved, each individual's sins were not cleansed at the cross. We are born again when we are resurrected with Christ in immersion.
No, Jesus didn't have to have His sins washed away, because He never sinned.
That is a very real possibility, until you read passages like 1 Pet 3:18-22, Eph 5:25-27, and others. These passages say specifically that immersion is in water, not the Spirit.
I am guessing that you interpret Eph 2:8-9 as meaning that there is no human action necessary for man to receive salvation. But that is not the case. Looking at Rom 10:9-10, we see that at least one human action is definitely required to receive salvation. Confession "with the mouth". Thus, the interpretation of Eph 2 that says man doesn't have to do anything what-so-ever is a false interpretation. That passage is saying that we cannot be good enough to earn salvation. We cannot blackmail, or bribe, or incentivize God to give us salvation. He, through his grace and mercy, gave us the opportunity to be saved, but He leaves it to us to take it (by doing the things that He says lead to it) which is what faith is. Through faith we take hold of the salvation that He put on the table for anyone who believes in Him and does what He said do to receive it.
The gospel does save Romans 1:16 men are saved by the engrafted word James 1:21.
1 Pet 1:23; James 1:18; etc
I think you're the first poster on any forum I have seen that claims one can be saved without God's word. Without God's word man would not know the mind of God 1 Cor 2:11, men would not know where he came from, what his purpose in life is nor what fate awaits men after death. Man would not know he is a sinner nor know he needs to be saved. Without God's word man would not have knowledge of Christ, the Holy Ghost, salvation, the church or Christianity.
Calling me names will not change the truth of the Bible.
"Legalist" is just a made up meaningless word.
How do you know there is a "limbo" if you don't go by God's word?
you keep holding on to your work based theology baptism.. it reads who so ever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved . the baptism is romans 6. is spiritual " For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, " whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13 which is done at our spiritual conception ie: the new birth all our sins are forgiven .its a spiritual birth called regeneration
so when do we get this grace and mercy ? and what is Grace what is mercy and if water baptism saves us.. then we dont need grace and mercy