No you cant no one can
We cannot even formulate one goid thought without God’s help
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Invisible Christianity
- Thread starter Who Me
- Start date
We cannot even formulate one goid thought without God’s help
We can, with God's help.
Isn't God helping you ?
Well you are a devotee of the Virgin Mary, not a fo.lower of Jesus so where never sealed by the Spirit as Eph 1:13 says and so are unaware of the Spirit promoting, teaching and interceding for us.
Don't you know that if a believer's Jesus you have the Right to become a child of God.Hey All,
Hey All,
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Take it up with Jesus.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Take it up with Paul.
According to the Catholic Church, baptism is the most common way for someone to be saved, but it's also possible for a non-baptized person to be saved. The Church teaches that God can lead people who don't know the Gospel to faith, which is necessary to please God. Non-baptized people who aren't responsible for their ignorance can still be saved if they:
Seek God with a sincere heart
Try to follow God's will as they understand it through their conscience
For example, if an adult who isn't baptized dies without choosing to be baptized or seeking baptism, God will judge their heart. If God sees faith and goodness in their heart, God will still give them grace. The only situation that might lead to eternal damnation is if someone doesn't receive baptism through their own fault.
So the Catholic Church is not completely rigid in its beliefs.
But apart from those exceptions, they do require baptism to be saved.
This means the Catholic Church is no different than a cult like this Jehovah's Witnesses; which also requires works to receive salvation.
So I owe you an apology Mr. Adams. I did not know that about the Catholic Church. You are voicing your truth. It is just another reason I am a protestant. I believe what I read in Scripture and not how it is perceived by someone who violates Jesus' basic command. (Not you sir. I mean the Catholic leadership hierarchy.)
I trust the Scripture above anybody's words; even my own. I can be wrong. Protestants can be wrong. The Catholic Church leadership can be wrong. The Pope can be wrong. Even an apostle like Peter or John can be wrong. We all make mistakes, we all sin. Scripture (the manuscripts of the 66 books we have in the Old and New Testaments) is trustworthy. They have stood the test of time.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
The bible has 73 books
Try reading the faith story of susana in dan 13 in your bible!
Where does scripture authorize pride?
Protest and rebellion are the very nature of pride!
Where does scripture authorize you to be the one who decides truth and the Christian faith??
Christians must be taught or instructed, according to the sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed, as commanded by Christ! Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:2
Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)
The Holy Spirit leads the apostles into all truth (Jn 16:13) they must teach us! (Matt 28:19)
Lk 1:4
Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 16:17
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:12
Phil 4:9
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…
No Christian has the authority to read scripture for yourself and decide your own doctrines or beliefs! “One faith” Eph 4:5 Thee faith once handed to the saints” Jude 1:3
Those who submit to the apostolic church know the truth! Those who reject The apostolic church are in error!
1 John 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Yet John 1:12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Says nothing about conformi g to church rites and rituals.
Similarly John3:16 etc.
Must believe everything christ has revealed and his church will s commanded to teach including baptism!Hey All,
Let's discuss it Mr. Adams.
"The bible has 73 books
Try reading the faith story of susana in dan 13 in your bible!" Quote from donadams
My Bible has 66 books. I am sure you are aware that protestants do not recognize the extra books in the Catholic Bible.
Also, in my Bible, Daniel only has 12 chapters. (I checked, the Torah also has 12 chapters.) I don't know who this Susana lady is.
"Where does scripture authorize pride?
Protest and rebellion are the very nature of pride"
Quote from donadams
What is prideful about saying"this is wrong."
I can read the Bible for myself.
I have a fair command of the english language.
When I read what Jesus said:
Matthew 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
I have questions.
Jesus is not being symbolic there.
It is offensive to call anyone who is not God the Father, father.
So when I see, and hear, the Catholic Church hierarchy violating what Jesus said not to do, yeah I am gonna say this is wrong. What hoops do they jump through to try and justify going against what Jesus said?
Pride is allowing others to call you what you are not.
"Where does scripture authorize you to be the one who decides truth and the Christian faith??" Quote from donadams
Acts 17:10-12 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
Regular people in Berea searched the scriptures to make sure Paul was telling them the truth.
Paul calls them more noble. (a k.a. They were doing the right thing.)
So why can't I search to see if the church leadership is telling me the truth?
Paul places scripture above teaching.
Why?
2 Peter 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Scripture is a "more sure word."
"Christians must be taught or instructed, according to the sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed, as commanded by Christ! Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:2" Quote from donadams
"Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)" Quote from donadams
According to the whaasat?
Look at how complicated you are making it.
The disciples, who became apostles, began to do the work Jesus had set before them.
Sanctify does not mean"baptism."
Sanctify means to be "set apart."
We are set apart unto God the moment we believe in Jesus.
As long as you brought it up, in Matthew 28:19, Jesus said to baptize them, " . . . in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
Peter in, Acts 2:38, said to be baptized " . . . in the name of Jesus . . . "
So Peter did not follow Jesus' words.
Peter only baptized in Jesus name.
So were those people in Acts 2 not really baptized because of Peter's incomplete declaration?
Further, and by far more important, were those people really saved?
If we go strictly by what the Catholic Church teaches, as we have learned through you, those people were not baptized correctly.
Therefore they were not saved.
The church was not started that day.
That is where we get to if we have to be baptized according to only Matthew 28:19.
"The Holy Spirit leads the apostles into all truth (Jn 16:13) they must teach us! (Matt 28:19)" Quote from donadams
John calls their group disciples during this discussion.
John 16:17
Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because I go to the Father?
The truth of John 16:13 is that the Spirit of truth will guide Jesus' disciples into all truth.
That applies to all disciples.
You and I are disciples of Jesus.
The Holy Spirit (a.k.a. the Spirit of truth) will guide us into the truth as well.
So how do we know we are being guided into the truth?
The apostles left us, as Peter called it, "a more sure word."
So if someone says, "God tempted me."
We know that is not true.
The Holy Spirit that indwells us tells us this.
Plus, we have the "more sure word." of James telling us this is not true.
"No Christian has the authority to read scripture for yourself and decide your own doctrines or beliefs! “One faith” Eph 4:5 Thee faith once handed to the saints” Jude 1:3" Quote from donadams
But that is exactly what you are doing Mr. Adams. Remember that big long list of verses you gave me trying to prove baptism is necessary for salvation?
You used a lot of those verses out of context so they would fit your point of view.
Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
So when I ask why this does not apply to Catholic Church hierarchy, what exactly have I done wrong?
I am being like the regular people of Berea.
I searched the scriptures.
Paul and John used the phrase "my little children."
Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
But nowhere are the apostles ever referred to, nor do they refer to themselves, not do they request others to address them as fathers of the church.
Why?
Ephesians 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
What is missing from this list?
Father.
That is because calling church leaders father goes against what Jesus said.
Based upon my "more sure word," I believe I have the authority to question that practice.
You do also Mr. Adams.
Ask your church leader to give you an answer that overrides what Jesus said. (I left an article on this below my signoff.)
What is their answer?
When people do not have access to the truth, then the church leaders can make stuff up, like purgatory for example. (That is a whole other discussion.)
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
P.S. The article:
When did the use of “Father” become a practice in the Catholic Church for ordained priests?
BY FR. JOE SCOTT MAY 18, 2008
The answer is: much later than we might think!
The early church seems to have avoided any titles for Christians, except for the egalitarian “brother” and “sister.” Matthew’s gospel, which is very concerned about the rules of conduct within a Christian community, records this teaching of Jesus: “Call no one on earth your father, you have but one Father in heaven” (Matthew 23:9). Jesus seems to be suggesting that titles are a way of claiming rank over and above others and therefore were not proper for a disciple who sought to be a servant to all.
With the passage of time, however, the title “Father” crept into Christian etiquette as a way of describing the relationship of a priest or monk with those to whom he ministered. The custom arose among the followers of the monastic orders of St. Benedict to address the leader of a monastery as “abbot” and the leader of a convent as “abbess.” This word was a variation of the Aramaic word for father, “abba.”
Bishops also began claiming the title “Father” to describe the nature of their teaching authority over a local church. In the Middle Ages, as the practice of making a private confession to a priest grew, priests who served as confessors were called “Father.” So were mendicant friars like the Franciscans and Dominicans.
Despite these precedents, the use of “Father” as the normal title for ALL priests, whether attached to a diocese or members of a religious order, is a very recent practice. It originated in Ireland and spread to the United States with the Irish immigrations of the 1840’s. When Cardinal Manning was archbishop of Westminster (1865-1892) he worked hard to establish this custom as the universal practice in England as well. It is still largely restricted to English speaking countries (although in France, Catholics use “Pere” in addressing a priest).
So the repentant thief was not saved?
Most of what you promote is rcc dogma, not biblical truth.
The new covenant was not in effect until after yhe death of christ heb 9:16
How was Lazarus saved lk 16?
Christ demands obedience to his church matt 28:19 matt 18:17
The church determined the cannon of scripture at 73 complete books
Thks
Call no man father see belowMatt 23:9
Call no man father? Jesus is condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?
Or is this absolute?
God calls men father!
Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Jesus calls men father!
Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
Mary calls men father!
Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
Peter calls men father!
Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
Acts 3:22 Moses said unto the fathers…
The stephen calls men father!
Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!
Apostles call men father!
1 Jn 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
The Bible calls men father!
Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
Jn 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Jesus does not rebuke her for calling men father!
Then there is spiritual fathers who have care for our souls! Heb 13:7-17
Isa 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!
Eph 3: 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
every family in heaven and on earth is named from the “Father.” We are fathers in the Father.
Acts 7:2; 22:1, 1 John 2:13 – elders of the Church are called “fathers.” Therefore, we should ask the question, “Why don’t Protestants call their pastors “father?”
1 Cor. 4:17 – Paul calls Bishop Timothy a beloved and faithful “child” in the Lord.
2 Cor. 12:14 – Paul describes his role as parent over his “children” the Corinthians.
Phil. 2:22 – Paul calls Timothy’s service to him as a son serves a “father.”
1 Thess. 2:11- Paul compares the Church elders’ ministry to the people like a father with his children.
1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3 – Paul calls Timothy his true “child” in the faith and his son.
Titus 1:4 – Paul calls Titus his true “child” in a common faith. Priests are our spiritual fathers in the family of God.
Philemon 10 – Paul says he has become the “father” of Onesimus.
Heb. 12:7,9 – emphasizes our earthly “fathers.” But these are not just biological but also spiritual (the priests of the Church).
1 Peter 5:13 – Peter refers to himself as father by calling Mark his “son.”
1 John 2:1,1 John 2:13,14 – John calls the elders of the Church “fathers.”
Isa 22:21-22 the prime minister who administer the kingdom under the king in the line of david Lk 1:32-23 has the title father and hold the keys Matt 16:18Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, (apostles) who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, (apostles) and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you
1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!
Spiritual fathers obey Jesus and don't let folks call them "Father".
You have nothing to worry about cos orphans have no father!
Having been reborn of Gods incorruptible seed, I do have a Father.
No spiritual father here on earth to care for your soul!
Though there have been men filled with the Holy Ghost that guided me earlier in life, no "man" is my leader...or father now.
And none would have me call them Father...ever !
IMO one can be a devotee of Mary, who was wonderfully privileged, brave, and obedient, and still be a follower of her son Yeshua. Such can hold all sorts of errors – who can’t? – and yet be sealed by the spirit and aware of him leading them and even interceding in their prayer life (Rm.8:26). Some Catholics are great Christians. Jhn.1:12 was before the cross – they had to await the cross to enter the new family. After the cross, each one who welcomes Jesus as messiah immediately becomes a child of God.Last edited: