Invisible Christianity

[Josef]

Paul don’t qualify sorry!
How do you know the qualifications in acts one does not apply to any but Mathias?

Apostles have the same power & authority as Christ

He made apostles so can they and do until christ returns

Today there about 4000 bishops the successors of the apostles administering the new covenant church till Christ returns in glory

Hey All,

"How do you know the qualifications in acts one does not apply to any but Mathias?" Quote from donadams

That is easy.
The apostles had two qualified candidates and they only chose one.

Acts 1:21-26 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

There was more than two.
" . . . of these men . . . "
There had to be at least three, possibly more qualified candidates.

"And they appointed two . . . "

If they needed more, why not appoint all three or even more?
They only appointed one.
Why did the apostles stop if had at least three thy could have appointed?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Josef]

Then who administers the grace of God in the sacraments and has care for our souls?

Hey All,

"Then who administers the grace of God in the sacraments and has care for our souls?"Quote from donadams

Ephesians 3:8
Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

The least of all the saints can administer grace and can care for our souls. Paul may not be an apostle, but there he is doing it all.

Ephesians 4:7
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

All believers have been given this grace.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[donadams]

Hey All,

"How do you know the qualifications in acts one does not apply to any but Mathias?" Quote from donadams

That is easy.
The apostles had two qualified candidates and they only chose one.

Acts 1:21-26 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

There was more than two.
" . . . of these men . . . "
There had to be at least three, possibly more qualified candidates.

"And they appointed two . . . "

If they needed more, why not appoint all three or even more?
They only appointed one.
Why did the apostles stop if had at least three thy could have appointed?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

Its not a litmus test they are only giving reason for what their doing
It’s not absolute or Paul could not be an apostle. Thks

 

[donadams]

Hey All,

"Then who administers the grace of God in the sacraments and has care for our souls?"Quote from donadams

Ephesians 3:8
Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

The least of all the saints can administer grace and can care for our souls. Paul may not be an apostle, but there he is doing it all.

Ephesians 4:7
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

All believers have been given this grace.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

No way!

Jn 20:21-22

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Apostles only!
2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

2 pet 1:11

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 & 28:19 eph 2:20

Heb 13:7-17 care for our souls

Thanks

 

[Who Me]

As Paul said 2 Cor 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

The grace of Jesus is with you and me.

 

[Josef]

No way!

Jn 20:21-22

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Apostles only!
2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

2 pet 1:11

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 & 28:19 eph 2:20

Heb 13:7-17 care for our souls

Thanks

Hey All,
How does Paul open most of his letters?

"Grace and peace be unto you . . . "

So there he is, not an apostle according to you Mr. Adams, not one of the twelve, administering grace.

Any one who is given grave, may give grace to others.

The giving of grace is not restricted.
Grace is a gift of compassion from God to me.

Matthew 6:14
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

In fact, I am expected to forgive others.
This forgiveness is an act of grace.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Tenchi]

What do you think of this:-https://answersingenesis.org/christianity/barna-weve-reached-time-of-christian-invisibility/

A review that says poor teaching of Christian leaders by colleges has lead to very poor teaching of Christians, and consequently a poor example of Christianity seen by a hostile world.

I think there's actually a complex of factors that have converged to create the current impotent, sin-fouled Church in North America: The "seeker-sensitive" church model, dissolution of church discipline, tribalization of church communities, abandonment of "basic truths" (walking in the Spirit, the crucified life, identification with Christ, "walking by faith, not by sight," etc.), and the toxic effects of affluence and ease (to name just a few factors).

In North America, we all have access to the Bible and to a huge array of study helps (commentaries, interlinear Bibles, Bible lexicons, texts on interpretive hermeneutics, primers on basic logic, etc.) and to the Holy Spirit who is our Ultimate Teacher. There is no reason, then, for the lay-Christian to be reliant on "Christian leaders" for their understanding of God's word and of the doctrines and practices of the faith revealed therein.

There is, though, a well-developed reflex in secular culture to defer to the expert, to trust that they're always giving the "straight goods" and doing so well, and this reflex has been fostered within the Church, too. But as the Covid19 debacle has revealed, the "experts" don't have our best interests fundamentally at heart (think: "I am the science" Dr. Fauci). They can be bought; they can have an ideological/political agenda coloring their expertise; they will protect their reputation at the expense of the truth, refusing to admit error even if others are harmed as a result, and so on. The Church is by no means immune to the untrustworthy spiritual "expert" which is why Scripture warns against such "experts" a number of times (Matthew 7:15; Acts 20:29; 2 Peter 2; Jude 1:4-16). And so, we have disgraced characters Benny Hinn, Larry Taunton, Ravi Zacharias, Karl Lens, John Paul Miller, Tony Evans, and Robert Morris, - the list goes on and on.

This occurs - unholy men standing in pulpits, preaching - because congregants have ceased to be "workmen who have studied to show themselves approved unto God, who need not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of Truth." They are, instead, expecting "fast-food spirituality" that requires little-to-nothing of them; their "charismatic" pastors telling them what to think and do in loud and utterly certain tones. If the average Christian church was of a kind with the "faithful Bereans" (Acts 17:11), carefully looking for and removing "leaven" from its midst (1 Corinthians 5; Ephesians 5:1-13; 2 Corinthians 6:14-18), these sorts of men would never get near a pulpit.

Anyway, churches get the leaders that they deserve, leaders who reflect the character of the congregations who install them as pastors and teachers. If they have a child-molester as a leader, they have only themselves ultimately to blame.

 

[donadams]

As Paul said 2 Cor 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

The grace of Jesus is with you and me.

Only those baptized in the name of the father and the son and the spirit

 

[Hopeful 2]

I think there's actually a complex of factors that have converged to create the current impotent, sin-fouled Church in North America: The "seeker-sensitive" church model, dissolution of church discipline, tribalization of church communities, abandonment of "basic truths" (walking in the Spirit, the crucified life, identification with Christ, "walking by faith, not by sight," etc.), and the toxic effects of affluence and ease (to name just a few factors).

In North America, we all have access to the Bible and to a huge array of study helps (commentaries, interlinear Bibles, Bible lexicons, texts on interpretive hermeneutics, primers on basic logic, etc.) and to the Holy Spirit who is our Ultimate Teacher. There is no reason, then, for the lay-Christian to be reliant on "Christian leaders" for their understanding of God's word and of the doctrines and practices of the faith revealed therein.

There is, though, a well-developed reflex in secular culture to defer to the expert, to trust that they're always giving the "straight goods" and doing so well, and this reflex has been fostered within the Church, too. But as the Covid19 debacle has revealed, the "experts" don't have our best interests fundamentally at heart (think: "I am the science" Dr. Fauci). They can be bought; they can have an ideological/political agenda coloring their expertise; they will protect their reputation at the expense of the truth, refusing to admit error even if others are harmed as a result, and so on. The Church is by no means immune to the untrustworthy spiritual "expert" which is why Scripture warns against such "experts" a number of times (Matthew 7:15; Acts 20:29; 2 Peter 2; Jude 1:4-16). And so, we have disgraced characters Benny Hinn, Larry Taunton, Ravi Zacharias, Karl Lens, John Paul Miller, Tony Evans, and Robert Morris, - the list goes on and on.

This occurs - unholy men standing in pulpits, preaching - because congregants have ceased to be "workmen who have studied to show themselves approved unto God, who need not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of Truth." They are, instead, expecting "fast-food spirituality" that requires little-to-nothing of them; their "charismatic" pastors telling them what to think and do in loud and utterly certain tones. If the average Christian church was of a kind with the "faithful Bereans" (Acts 17:11), carefully looking for and removing "leaven" from its midst (1 Corinthians 5; Ephesians 5:1-13; 2 Corinthians 6:14-18), these sorts of men would never get near a pulpit.

Anyway, churches get the leaders that they deserve, leaders who reflect the character of the congregations who install them as pastors and teachers. If they have a child-molester as a leader, they have only themselves ultimately to blame.

Agreed.

 

[Who Me]

Only those baptized in the name of the father and the son and the spirit

So those who hear the gospel through the radio in Afghanistan, or in North Korea find a sim card with the bible on it and become a Christian, because they know of no other Christians cannot be true Christians because they are not baptised.

Your religion of rules and regulations knows nothing of the grace of God.

 

[donadams]

So those who hear the gospel through the radio in Afghanistan, or in North Korea find a sim card with the bible on it and become a Christian, because they know of no other Christians cannot be true Christians because they are not baptised.

Your religion of rules and regulations knows nothing of the grace of God.

Its not a bible study
Its a covenant that has requirements!

 

[Who Me]

Its not a bible study
Its a covenant that has requirements!

I'm not talking about a bible study, but about practical every day Christianity.

Paul prayed that the grace of God would be with you, the reader of scripture, whenever and whenever they where, regardless of whether they belonged to a church, had performed that churches rites and rituals.

Jesus said whoever believes, whoover shows their love for him, he will be with them.
You say he won't.

 

[donadams]

I'm not talking about a bible study, but about practical every day Christianity.

Paul prayed that the grace of God would be with you, the reader of scripture, whenever and whenever they where, regardless of whether they belonged to a church, had performed that churches rites and rituals.

Jesus said whoever believes, whoover shows their love for him, he will be with them.
You say he won't.

You are missing the understanding
You change a statement of doctrine into an act of faith

Example Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

This does not refer to your personal act of faith, but the doctrine of beliefs required by the new covenant church

There are requirements
Example
Muslims are not in the new covenant

They dont accept the doctrine of the new covenant

The unity is by the faith!

Thks

 

[Josef]

You are missing the understanding
You change a statement of doctrine into an act of faith

Example Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

This does not refer to your personal act of faith, but the doctrine of beliefs required by the new covenant church

There are requirements
Example
Muslims are not in the new covenant

They dont accept the doctrine of the new covenant

The unity is by the faith!

Thks

Hey All,

"You are missing the understanding
You change a statement of doctrine into an act of faith " Quote from donadams

How can you say that?
You don't believe that the doctrine of the church applies to those within the church?

The church is the people.
John 3:16 is not just for the hierarchy within the church leaders.

Regarding faith:

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Once we have ears that hear, we hear the gospel, and that stimulates the faith we have been given.

The faith needed to believe, we have received from God (Ephesians 2:8-9)

John 3:16

So John 3:16 applies to "whosoever."
What person does "whosoever" not cover?

I believe it applies to every person, and is not just meant to be church doctrine.

It applies to each of us believers as the start of our relationship with God.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[donadams]

Hey All,

"You are missing the understanding
You change a statement of doctrine into an act of faith " Quote from donadams

How can you say that?
You don't believe that the doctrine of the church applies to those within the church?

The church is the people.
John 3:16 is not just for the hierarchy within the church leaders.

Regarding faith:

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Once we have ears that hear, we hear the gospel, and that stimulates the faith we have been given.

The faith needed to believe, we have received from God (Ephesians 2:8-9)

John 3:16

So John 3:16 applies to "whosoever."
What person does "whosoever" not cover?

I believe it applies to every person, and is not just meant to be church doctrine.

It applies to each of us believers as the start of our relationship with God.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

It includes all doctrines or truths revealed by christ “the Christian faith”

 

[Tenchi]

There is no reasoning with a propagandist...

 

[donadams]

There is no reasoning with a propagandist...

Includes baptism i guess that makes christ a propagandist?

Mk 16:16 jn 3:5

 

[Tenchi]

Includes baptism i guess that makes christ a propagandist?

Mk 16:16 jn 3:5

Don, it seems very evident - to me, anyway - that your goal in posting isn't to learn, to perhaps discover you've been wrong and to change your view, but to simply propagate your Roman Catholic dogma. We've all got ideas and beliefs to which we're deeply committed and will defend strongly, but most folk who post on CF.net who do are still willing to actually consider what the other person has posted and interact with it. You, in contrast, just cut-and-paste reams of biblical proof-texts - most of which abuse and twist Scripture - in support of RC doctrines in "response" to the posts of others, ignoring almost entirely what they've written, "throwing the elephant" of information and in so doing preventing others from engaging with your posts. This is how propagandists carry on, not those wanting genuine engagement about Christian belief and practice.

 

[donadams]

Truth is immutable!

You can share whatever you want!

 

[donadams]

Don, it seems very evident - to me, anyway - that your goal in posting isn't to learn, to perhaps discover you've been wrong and to change your view, but to simply propagate your Roman Catholic dogma. We've all got ideas and beliefs to which we're deeply committed and will defend strongly, but most folk who post on CF.net who do are still willing to actually consider what the other person has posted and interact with it. You, in contrast, just cut-and-paste reams of biblical proof-texts - most of which abuse and twist Scripture - in support of RC doctrines in "response" to the posts of others, ignoring almost entirely what they've written, "throwing the elephant" of information and in so doing preventing others from engaging with your posts. This is how propagandists carry on, not those wanting genuine engagement about Christian belief and practice.

The church founded by christ cannot be wrong or christ would be wrong!

We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)
Sacred Scripture according to the churches cannon and interpretation? Yes!
Scripture alone? No!

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things by, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!
It’s

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

One shepherd and one fold! Jn 10:16

The truth of the Christian faith and the church are of divine origin and cannot be reformed!

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17 1 Jn 4:6

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the canon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

The Christian faith is revealed by Christ!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the canon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

It is impossible to reject the church or her teaching without rejecting Christ who founded the church and revealed her teaching!

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19) with His authority to bind all Christians to believe the truth He has revealed!

Christ and His church are one!
((Inseparable unity))
Acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 eph 5:32 Isa 53:5 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29